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Do RPGs actually benefit from having a writer?

Do RPGs actually benefit from having a writer?

  • No, RPGs are about exploration of dungeons and wilderness

  • Yes, CYOA books don't write themselves

  • No, RPGs are about combat mechanics, preferably turn-based and tactical

  • Yes, narrative-driven games can't exist without someone to write their narrative

  • No, RPGs are about deep character systems and customization

  • Yes, Bioware games need writing for companion chatter and romances

  • RPGs are a perfect balance of exploration, combat, characters, CYOA, narrative, and romances (KC)


Results are only viewable after voting.

Raghar

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Fuckiong STONIGS are what's keeping the genre stagnated.
Genre stagnated because they decided they can't allow people read, and must have all stuff pre recorded. Pre recorded of course means no way to make proper detailed dialogues, and proper branching story. While quality fan fiction like developers were able to write decent stuff well before deadline, so well before deadline some voluneteer managed even to make grammar checks and make sure there wasn't a typo they missed even after 12 proof readings.

But of course people started becoming retards and decided that when movies are popular, games which are between books and movies must copy from movies. (games are interactive art based on text and graphic) When movies tried to say show don't tell, they do it because people don't wanna feel dumb when they seen it on screen after hours watching and hear a narrator saying, and now they hanged the most ugly character because he was ugly. When these two assholes would finish their duel, would they remove noose or would they leave him hanging? Viewer wanted to leave if they are assholes or not to interpretation. Narrator would force ONE official view. (Which would be bad.)

Old games tried to create suspension of disbelief. They tried to avoid the idea of putting real world stuff like name of developers or name of real stuff as much as possible. Old games menu looked New game - load game - options - credits - exit. And that was all. These credits were there because developers didn't want theirs names to be in game, and kill suspension of disbelief.
New games are putting names of developers either into intro, or they leave them floating around during first few seconds of gameplay. Then they wonder why bad dungeon crawler has so bad sales even in country of origin.

Old games were able to make decent story, and simultaneously allowed to skip it and read it in journal later, new games have serious writing problems, which is bit scary because writers in old games were amateurs, or people who did it in free time.
 
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Do RPGs actually benefit from having a writer?

All RPGs benefit from having good, effective design elements. If you have good, effective writers then the RPG benefits from them.

Unfortunately, as a collaborative form of popular entertainment, measures of success among video game writers will be measured more professionally than creatively -- based on their ability to work well with the game designers and write to systems and scenarios rather than the reverse.

The highest measure of writerly achievement in the industry rarely rises above adequate or competent. This is fine because most consumers of popular entertainment have (at best) uncultivated taste and therefore no critical sentiments to disappointment.
 
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JarlFrank

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Old games tried to create suspension of disbelief. They tried to avoid the idea of putting real world stuff like name of developers or name of real stuff as much as possible. Old games menu looked New game - load game - options - credits - exit. And that was all. These credits were there because developers didn't want theirs names to be in game, and kill suspension of disbelief.
New games are putting names of developers either into intro, or they leave them floating around during first few seconds of gameplay. Then they wonder why bad dungeon crawler has so bad sales even in country of origin.

... what?
 

Raghar

Arcane
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Old games tried to create suspension of disbelief. They tried to avoid the idea of putting real world stuff like name of developers or name of real stuff as much as possible. Old games menu looked New game - load game - options - credits - exit. And that was all. These credits were there because developers didn't want theirs names to be in game, and kill suspension of disbelief.
New games are putting names of developers either into intro, or they leave them floating around during first few seconds of gameplay. Then they wonder why bad dungeon crawler has so bad sales even in country of origin.

... what?
I mentioned Zanki Zero. (But of course FF XIII is also guilty of killing suspension of disbelief by throwing names of developers into intro.)
 

Twizman

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I my opinion NO, I like rpgs for combat, exploration, dungeon-crawling. I tend to enjoy rpgs a lot more when there is minimal interruptions or cutscenes.
 
Unwanted

a Goat

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Fuckiong STONIGS are what's keeping the genre stagnated.
Genre stagnated because they decided they can't allow people read, and must have all stuff pre recorded. Pre recorded of course means no way to make proper detailed dialogues, and proper branching story. While quality fan fiction like developers were able to write decent stuff well before deadline, so well before deadline some voluneteer managed even to make grammar checks and make sure there wasn't a typo they missed even after 12 proof readings.
Based voice acting reducing amount of writing in games. I love full VA now.
Old games were able to make decent story, and simultaneously allowed to skip it and read it in journal later, new games have serious writing problems, which is bit scary because writers in old games were amateurs, or people who did it in free time.
Majority of old(role playing) games have terrible gameplay, majority of new(role playing) games also have terrible gameplay and yet retarded mouthbreating STONIGS think(if you can call it thinking) the biggest disaster is that they can't read pointless walls of text raving about pseudophilisophical thought process of a writer who has only read 4 books in his life(all very bad genre fiction) and yet consider himself an intellectual.

I can understand that it's complicated for a person of STONIG mental disposition to understand it, but believe me or not, even in the most verbose STONIG games like The Shitcher 3, you only watch/read the writing for a quarter of your time spent with the game. Shocking I know. The 3/4th of the game fucking sucks dick like it's saturday night and what does STONIG complain about? HUH VA DOESN'T LET THE WRITER TO WRITE MORE OF HIS GARBAGE.\


Tells a lot about "priorities" of some people.
 

Raghar

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Fuckiong STONIGS are what's keeping the genre stagnated.
Genre stagnated because they decided they can't allow people read, and must have all stuff pre recorded. Pre recorded of course means no way to make proper detailed dialogues, and proper branching story. While quality fan fiction like developers were able to write decent stuff well before deadline, so well before deadline some voluneteer managed even to make grammar checks and make sure there wasn't a typo they missed even after 12 proof readings.
Based voice acting reducing amount of writing in games. I love full VA now.
You understand it reduces branching. When they need to pay for VA, they want to railroad user into single predicable story. And they want user to hear all that VA, considering they paid for it. And it increses price of games by 7$. Basically it gets the worst from both sides.

Old games were able to make decent story, and simultaneously allowed to skip it and read it in journal later, new games have serious writing problems, which is bit scary because writers in old games were amateurs, or people who did it in free time.
The 3/4th of the game fucking sucks dick like it's saturday night

I heard story like: They said to Stalin that only small part of Russian movies, about 12 Russian movies per year, doesn't suck ass.
Stalin said, then make only 12 movies per year (He meant make only decent movies like these 12.)
They took his words literally, and made only 12 movies per year. 11 of them sucked ass.
 
Unwanted

a Goat

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You understand it reduces branching.
Oh shit I'm gonna have less shit to go through while playing. B-B-B-BUT THE ENDING SLIDES, WON'T HAVE THEM AS VERBOSE

L O L

As for sucking ass, sadly this is free market system and had developers not had excuse for having shit gayemplay(I-I-IT'S AN RPGEEEE), they'd have to start making good gameplay or perish, sadly STORYFAGGOTS don't allow it to happen.
 

anvi

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I only have two rules with story. Be one of these things:

1) If you appreciate that you don't have a genius writer, like the guy wrote The Wire or 1984, then you just keep the story very brief and inoffensive. In the good old days, this is usually how it was done. Eye of the Beholder 2, one of my favorite games, has a worried noble ask you to look into the castle of Darkmoon. Word is there evil happening there, they sent a scout to investigate and she never returned. So he is hiring your party to go there and figure it out. THATS IT. Then you go and play an awesome dungeon crawl and you get an ending to the story if you complete it. All games should be like this, unless....

2) If the writing (and the characters that voice act it) is genuinely good enough to compete with Narcos, Breaking Bad, The Wire, The Shield, Game of Thrones, that new Apollo 11 Docu/movie, a few movies I have been waiting to watch for a while.... then don't bother even trying to write something. Because I can always tell and it always annoys me. I don't want to read about wizards and elves and shit unless it is written at that sort of standard. I know some people can't appreciate this point of view but try to at least try to understand it. If I want story I can get such great versions of it from TV and films and books, I really don't need 3rd rate crap in a game being forced down my throat. I don't like it. I think if you are 13 you don't know what a TV even is, then yes, compared to life on YouTube, a game story is probably entertaining. But it is not for me. And I play a lot of games, I would say only about 1% of games have a story that isn't completely wasting my time. And again, the voice actors used to read me the story... These TV shows are so good, a game is wasting my time. The thing that attracts me to games at all, is the gameplay.
 

hpstg

Savant
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Messages
485
Shit poll and OP should cut his own throat.

Lacking options that related to the term "good writer".

A bad writer can ruin a game whatever it is because you can never fix bad writings. Modders wont help you there.
The blood should be offered as ceremonial ink to the first good writer to come out of this generation.
 
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I prefer minimalist writing (as in text and dialogue) in my games over what we usually get now, but good writing can still elevate a game. I'd even say the more D&D tone/writing of The White March is why it's better than base PoE given that it's mechanics and encounters are pretty much the same, but I really enjoyed White march content so much more.
 

laclongquan

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Shit poll and OP should cut his own throat.

Lacking options that related to the term "good writer".

A bad writer can ruin a game whatever it is because you can never fix bad writings. Modders wont help you there.
The blood should be offered as ceremonial ink to the first good writer to come out of this generation.
Depend on what you define as "this generation".

In the current crop, Brandon Sanderson is good. He always can build a great world setting, and good prose. His characters also increase their own characteristics over time. Too bad that I dont like him, but I can recognize his good points.

Naomi Novik, as a female author, is also not bad. Her Temeraire setting is interesting and her characters are quite good. Problem is that her style is a bit too solo, too isolated.

Younger than that would be amateur writers in Chinese and Japanese scenes. Which need another set of criteria to judge.

I am itching to find amateur writers in English scenes, but I havent found those scenes just yet~ And I am too leery to jump into the current fanfiction scenes... Ocean of shit is one thing, but if there's no sign of possible grain of gold I dont want to wade or dive into that.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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Yes, you aren't expecting the nerdos programming the game to be able to write as well, are you?
The designers, programmers, and/or artists should be able to write well enough that it isn't necessary to hire someone for the role of writer. It would be a worthwhile exercise to determine how many classic CRPGs had a writer on the staff. :M
 

hpstg

Savant
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Messages
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Depend on what you define as "this generation".

In the current crop, Brandon Sanderson is good. He always can build a great world setting, and good prose. His characters also increase their own characteristics over time. Too bad that I dont like him, but I can recognize his good points.

Naomi Novik, as a female author, is also not bad. Her Temeraire setting is interesting and her characters are quite good. Problem is that her style is a bit too solo, too isolated.

Younger than that would be amateur writers in Chinese and Japanese scenes. Which need another set of criteria to judge.

I am itching to find amateur writers in English scenes, but I havent found those scenes just yet~ And I am too leery to jump into the current fanfiction scenes... Ocean of shit is one thing, but if there's no sign of possible grain of gold I dont want to wade or dive into that.
Thanks for the list.

I don't know what's the official Codexian policy on the new God of War, but I really enjoyed every part of it. It seems to me that Sony is hoarding all relatively competent AAA developers. Microsoft seems to be doing the same on the AA space, they will probably have a dash for whichever indie studio is left in Eastern Europe, by the end of this generation.

It seems to me that with relatively few exceptions, no real PC-exclusives with good writing will be left.
 

DJOGamer PT

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Yes but it depends on what you understand as a "writer".

Someone who only writes text he's told to write by the actual designers? No, that's a shit position and a waste of a good game-writer's talents.

An RPG writer should be able to:
- design quests with multiple approaches, solutions and endings
- design a non-linear narrative with choice and consequence
- write interesting backgrounds for the dungeons and items the player will encounter
- if he's not able to do scripting, at least know what's possible with scripting and what isn't, so he can consider these things in his writing of dialogues etc
- work together with level designers and system designers to create content that is internally consistent and provides a great playing experience

If you don't know how to design interesting quests, you shouldn't write for RPGs.

/thread

I am no storyfag, but a game writer has a much bigger and important job than writing dialogue/descriptions/in-game documents.

Only games that can do without a writers are action games (shooters, platformers, figthing, racing, beat 'em ups, hack 'n' slash, etc...). But even those games can benefit from a decent writer.
 
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Zed Duke of Banville

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Note that scenario creation is distinct from writing as such:

Rogue - No writer
Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord - No writer
Wizardry: Knight of Diamonds - No writer
Wizardry: Legacy of Llylgamyn - No writer
Wizardry: The Return of Werdna - Scenario by Roe R. Adams III
Wizardry V: Heart of the Maelstrom - Scenario by David W. Bradley and Andrew Greenberg, the two programmers
Wizardry: Bane of the Cosmic Forge - Written and programmed by David W. Bradley
Wizardry: Crusaders of the Dark Savant - Written and programmed by David W. Bradley
Akalabeth: World of Doom - No writer
Ultima - No writer
Ultima II: The Revenge of the Enchantress - No writer
Ultima III: Exodus - No writer
Ultima IV: The Quest of the Avatar - Plot collaboration by Roe R. Adams III
Ultima V: Warriors of Destiny - Several writers
Ultima VI: The False Prophet - Several writers
Ultima VII: The Black Gate - Several writers
Ultima VII: Serpent Isle - Several writers
Might and Magic: Secret of the Inner Sanctum - No writer
Might and Magic II: Gates to Another World - No writer
Might and Magic III: Isles of Terra - No writer
Might and Magic: Clouds of Xeen - Possible writers, credits unclear
Might and Magic: Darkside of Xeen - Possible writers, credits unclear
Tales of the Unknown: The Bard's Tale - Scenario Design by Michael Cranford (designer) and Brian Fargo (level designer)
The Bard's Tale II: The Destiny Knight - Scenario Design by Michael Cranford (designer) and Brian Fargo (owner)
The Bard's Tale III: Thief of Fate - No writer

The addition of writers to CRPG development staff was a mistake.
 

bylam

Funcom
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707
Yes cutscenes are shit and if you're a writer on a game and insist on presenting the story by cutscenes, you are in the wrong job.

I agree almost 100% with your other post, though we call those people "Quest Designers" or "Content Designers" not writers at Funcom. And having a writer to act as an editor for their content is usually a good idea.

But I disagree about cutscenes. Like every other tool in the toolbox, it is about knowing when and how to use them. For example, I'd much rather use a cutscene to show a story beat and act as a bridge then have the player sit through a loading screen.
 

thesheeep

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Yes cutscenes are shit and if you're a writer on a game and insist on presenting the story by cutscenes, you are in the wrong job.

I agree almost 100% with your other post, though we call those people "Quest Designers" or "Content Designers" not writers at Funcom. And having a writer to act as an editor for their content is usually a good idea.

But I disagree about cutscenes. Like every other tool in the toolbox, it is about knowing when and how to use them. For example, I'd much rather use a cutscene to show a story beat and act as a bridge then have the player sit through a loading screen.
It's also a matter of how much.
If it is like MGS or some other jRPGs, then... maybe not. I'm currently playing Dragon Quest XI - a relaxing experience with incredibly cute monsters, incl. puns like "Eggsoskeleton" (can't help myself, I love it). But fucking hell, every two screen changes you are sitting through a long "movie" sequence. Ugh...

Also, yeah, what a weird thread.
Of course an RPG benefits from having a (good!) writer. Obviously for story-focused RPGs. But even those RPGs that are not heavily story focused can benefit from that, like any other genre. Take FTL with its events, or Battle Brothers, etc.
I'd say every game benefits from having good developers.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Yes cutscenes are shit and if you're a writer on a game and insist on presenting the story by cutscenes, you are in the wrong job.

I agree almost 100% with your other post, though we call those people "Quest Designers" or "Content Designers" not writers at Funcom. And having a writer to act as an editor for their content is usually a good idea.

But I disagree about cutscenes. Like every other tool in the toolbox, it is about knowing when and how to use them. For example, I'd much rather use a cutscene to show a story beat and act as a bridge then have the player sit through a loading screen.
It's also a matter of how much.
If it is like MGS or some other jRPGs, then... maybe not. I'm currently playing Dragon Quest XI - a relaxing experience with incredibly cute monsters, incl. puns like "Eggsoskeleton" (can't help myself, I love it). But fucking hell, every two screen changes you are sitting through a long "movie" sequence. Ugh...

Yeah it's games like that with their excessive cutscene spam that made me completely hate the concept of non-interactive cutscenes. It's just so jarring when you just want to play a fucking game and then a 2 minute long movie showing something completely trivial that could've been cut down to 10 seconds or be displayed as an interactive dialogue with player choices appears every 15 minutes and rips you out of the game, forcing you to sit there and watch passively until it's over.

Sometimes I even like cutscenes, like the mission briefing cutscenes of Thief and Dishonores 2. They're cool. But I dunno if they really count as cutscenes.

But if you overuse the things and turn your game into a shitty animated movie... sorry Japan, movies aren't RPGs.
 

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