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Third Age: Total War

Livonya

Augur
Patron
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
296
Location
California
The mod is great, but the battle AI is sometimes catastrophically stupid.

I've started with the Free People, and the Orcs of Gundabad are constantly attacking me. Since they are goblins they have more troops in one unit then I, so in most battles they outnumber me 2 to 1.
If I click auto resolve I suffer a clear defeat, but if I fight them I easily beat them with very little losses, and I don't consider myself an expert tactician.

Other than that it's a fantastic mod.

I am pretty sure the mod specifically says that Auto Resolve does not work.

To get the feel of the lore they have to put more weak units in the orc squads, and this works out just fine with the regular battles. But when you use the auto resolve the game engine (which can't be modded) doesn't understand that the orcs are numerous but weak, so it sees a win for the orcs.

This is a problem, however as noted, the mod does tell you that auto resolve doesn't work. So you are essentially saying the AI is stupid, even though you are ignoring the point that auto resolve doesn't work with the mod. Seems a bit unfair.
 

Untermensch

Augur
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
280
Location
Croatia
The mod is great, but the battle AI is sometimes catastrophically stupid.

I've started with the Free People, and the Orcs of Gundabad are constantly attacking me. Since they are goblins they have more troops in one unit then I, so in most battles they outnumber me 2 to 1.
If I click auto resolve I suffer a clear defeat, but if I fight them I easily beat them with very little losses, and I don't consider myself an expert tactician.

Other than that it's a fantastic mod.

I am pretty sure the mod specifically says that Auto Resolve does not work.

To get the feel of the lore they have to put more weak units in the orc squads, and this works out just fine with the regular battles. But when you use the auto resolve the game engine (which can't be modded) doesn't understand that the orcs are numerous but weak, so it sees a win for the orcs.

This is a problem, however as noted, the mod does tell you that auto resolve doesn't work. So you are essentially saying the AI is stupid, even though you are ignoring the point that auto resolve doesn't work with the mod. Seems a bit unfair.

Ah,..... I didn't know that they stated auto resolve doesn't work. My bad then
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,844
Location
Lulea, Sweden
Still, battle AI isn't that good, I believe first Shogun still has tbe best battle AI.

The Orcs are generally just massacred until they get trolls. Even if Wargs surerly will help them.

Free people are IMO the easiest faction to play. They are surronded on so many sides with friendly factions. Of course they were even easier before the Orcs was splitted.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,437
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Still, battle AI isn't that good, I believe first Shogun still has tbe best battle AI.

The Battle AI has actually been modded. It would be even worse if they mapped their units to default M2:TW AI.
 
Unwanted

bot

Unwanted
Dumbfuck Queued
Joined
Dec 28, 2011
Messages
501
I am going to give 3.0 a try tonight, after an over a year-long break from the mod. I am seriously considering going with MOS (Massive Overhaul Submod) this time. Any thoughts on that one? Is it good enough as a whole or should I cheery-pick the most polished, stable submods?
 
Self-Ejected

Brayko

Self-Ejected
Joined
Feb 11, 2012
Messages
5,540
Location
United States of America
I've just played a bit as the Sylvan Elves. The battles are way too easy when you do nothing but rain arrows on hordes of orcs and send your invincible, unbreakable spearmen to do the rest.

Also, Middle Earth is getting tiresome, I'm sure even J.R.R. Tolkien would agree to that.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,437
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I've just played a bit as the Sylvan Elves. The battles are way too easy when you do nothing but rain arrows on hordes of orcs and send your invincible, unbreakable spearmen to do the rest.

Also, Middle Earth is getting tiresome, I'm sure even J.R.R. Tolkien would agree to that.

You playing on Very Hard/Very Hard?
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
97,437
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Very hard. Yep.

'k. I guess it's supposed to be easy to fight orcs, just like in the movies.

There was a historical battle in TATW 2.1, which they removed for some reason for 3.0. A massive two-front battle at the Black Gate of Mordor against an Easterling (Khand) army. Quite difficult.
 

Deleted member 7219

Guest
Playing on Very Hard as the Haradrim. Game is really fucking dull so far. Only guys I can find to fight with are rebels, and they die easily against my crappy infantry/archers. The campaign map and construction system seem exactly like they were in M2TW - sorely needing the upgrades Shogun 2 offered. I know its unfair to judge an old game by the standards of the new, but unless these things are hardcoded they should fix them in the next patch.
 

KoolNoodles

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
3,545
How is the balance in this latest iteration? And I'm not talking about things being equal, because they aren't supposed to be, I'm just talking about steamrolling. I think the last version I played was 2.X something, and Eriador/Dwarves of the Misty Mountains always bowed out fairly early due to swarms. Also Isengard always seemed to suck pretty bad.
 

kris

Arcane
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
8,844
Location
Lulea, Sweden
How is the balance in this latest iteration? And I'm not talking about things being equal, because they aren't supposed to be, I'm just talking about steamrolling. I think the last version I played was 2.X something, and Eriador/Dwarves of the Misty Mountains always bowed out fairly early due to swarms. Also Isengard always seemed to suck pretty bad.

Its better. Dividing the orcs of the misty mountains into two factions helped. Still Rohan usually is to strong and the only hope for a "good" player is that gondor is crushed because otherwise it is a cakewalk.
 

KoolNoodles

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
3,545
Ah, glad they divided the OoMM up, they were terrifying. Well I guess it's time to update the game and get the LotR soundtrack rolling.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Messages
97,437
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Hmmm...extreme lorefag submod: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/show...blic-Beta-Release-New-Patch-Released-17-12-13

ModDB_DaC_Preview_image_resized_zps331080f8.jpg


Choose your faction!

Gondorian
  • Kingdom of Gondor
  • Principality Of Dol Amroth

Northmen
  • Kingdom Of Rohan
  • Bree-land and the Shire
  • Northern Dúnedain
  • Kingdom of Dale
  • Vale of Dorwinion

Dwarves
  • Dwarves of Khazad-dûm
  • Dwarves of Erebor & Iron Hills
  • Dwarves of Ered Luin

Elves
  • Grey Havens of Lindon
  • Realm of Imladris
  • Thranduil's Realm
  • Galadhrim's Realm

Wildmen
  • Vale of Anduin
  • Clans of Enedwaith
  • Dunlendings

Orcish
  • Shadow of Mordor
  • Shadow of Mirkwood
  • Dominion of Isengard
  • Orcs of the Misty Mountains
  • Remnants of Angmar

Men of the East
  • Haven of Umbar
  • Haradrim Tribes
  • Easterlings of Rhûn
  • Variags of Khand

For the second release:
  • Ents of Fangorn
  • The White Council
  • The Reunited Kingdom

Whats new
  • World Events - No matter what faction you play, stay in the loop with key happenings in the world with the World Events system.
  • Khazad-dûm - Balin has set out to restore Moria to its former glory. Will you lead his forces through dangerous lands and reclaim it? And can you hold it when the depths reveal its secrets?
  • Enedwaith Clan-moot - It is time for Enedwaith to reveal itself to the world as a force of your choosing. The clans have their own aims, their own goals. Keep Enedwaith united, or it may very well collapse.
  • Real Combat - An advanced unit balancing system makes sure that battles flow and units feel real. Enjoy realistic combat.
  • Excellent new UI - A brand new UI with a unique style, designed by Tokus*Maximus. Modern, intuitive and immersive, it helps makes Divide and Conquer a unique experience.
  • New Wildmen Culture - A new culture for new factions, with custom settlements, strat-map models and will soon include new UI to boot.
  • Loads of new content - Hundreds of units, far more scripts then have been mentioned, new buildings and new functionality, Divide and Conquer is massive

Map
  • Remade to the Core! - The map has been made from scratch, with a completely new heightmap based on the official map of Middle-earth. Hundreds of hours have been spent making sure this map works and looks like the world its based in.
  • Lore Accurate! - The geography of Middle-earth has never been so accurately represented in a game! From the shape of the world to the heights of mountains, from the trees in Lorien to the climate of Middle-earth, experience the world like it should be.
  • Strategic Chokepoints! - Hold down Isengard at the Gap of Rohan, securing the Fords of Isen and protecting Foldburg. Prevent Mordor from crossing the Anduin by holding Cair Andros and Osgiliath, keeping the lands of the west safe. Prevent enemies crossing the Misty Mountains, holding the High Pass, or protecting the caverns of Moria.
  • Improved Graphics! - The map has never looked so good. Terrain textures have depth, the seas are smooth and detailed, forests are diverse and the rivers and shoreline is as smooth as ever. A modern map for modern times.
  • Remade Climates! - The climates of Middle-earth have been re-imagined, with improved weather, new climates, realistic snow and diverse regions. Golden-trees in Lorien, the Brown Lands north of Mordor, the fertile ashen lands of Nurnen and the creepy Dead Marshes are just some of the new climate work present in this mod.
  • Expanded map with more regions! - There are numerous new regions present in this mod, expanding many areas such as Eriador, Enedwaith and lands east of the Celduin. No larger region of Middle-earth was spared an expanded treatment.
  • Improved AI pathfinding - The campaign AI of Medieval II needs the best performance it can get. The map has been designed around keeping the AI moving and making sure the player is challenged. The world was designed with pathfinding performance in mind.
  • Sailable rivers! - Many rivers such as the Gwathlo or the Celduin, or even the center stretch of the Anduin have been made sailable, making naval invasions a new experience in many parts of Middle-earth. Defending the Celduin will never be the same.
  • Fixed vanilla bugs! - Issues present in vanilla have been fixed, such as the black terrain beyond the playable are in Battle-maps, bugged icons in higher leveled settlements or incorrect textures in certain climates. The trait and ancillary descriptions have been overhauled and cleaned up as well
  • Ensured Battle Stability! - As part of the climate overhaul, the culprit file for Battle CTD's was overhauled. Combined with a new method of loading these files, battle CTD's have been killed off, ensuring stability during your best moments.
  • 3.3 Unofficial Patch! - Enjoy the epic battles available within the new custom settlements provided by leo.civil.uefs! Enjoy improved immersion through bug-killing in the 3.2 settlements. Further enhancements have been included in this map, including an improved Erebor and a custom settlement for Gundabad. Including several settlements never released to the public, till now...
  • and many more surprises throughout the map...
 

Borian

Guest
I love this mod, along with the submod Divide and Conquer. I've played more of these mods than I have Medieval 2, and I've played more Medieval 2 than any other Total war. But first:

I dropped this mod because it had too much Bloom.
What the fuck. Turn it off.

Anyway, I've started a game of Divide and Conquer 4.5, the newest version, just released. I go through periods of about 2 months every other year where I'll spend hours every night playing Total War games. I didn't even intend to play DaC during this current period, but I noticed that the entire subforum was missing on TWC when I was looking for mods. Turns out the admins of that forum removed the mod because the latest version (4.5) includes the base Third Age mod in one single easy install. They didn't like that because of rules or something. I bet an admin felt really good about deleting/hiding that forum. So I was reminded of the mod because of that.

VH/VH. I'm playing Gondor this time. I've actually restarted 3 times. Let me show you why.

rgIJ5xy.jpg

FsVFDss.jpg

https://imgur.com/a/ZH614U8
Link to an album of images showing the bodies of this battle.
Full stack versus half stack. By virtue of numbers, their soldiers were superior because this was the early game; Mordor had not yet thrown away the scary starting units it gets at Minas Morgul, and all I had were a couple regular infantry and a bunch of militia. They came at me with some of their better units. I was sure I was about to lose this, or that Boromir would die, when they ground away a hole in the soldiers surrounding them and made their way to the capture point. The timer ran down to 10 seconds before I was able to put a soldier in it to reset the timer. Literally a soldier.
This mod is a little bit broken. Or rather, Medieval 2's base AI is bad, and this is better, but worse in other ways. For instance, here at the defense of Western Osgiliath, the AI is not quite able to maneuver their armies in the city. No custom map has been managed in an intelligent manner by the AI. For the most part, all they can do is zerg rush their units into the capture point. They generally don't form up after getting in. The more you keep them bounded by chokepoints, the harder they push. In a weird way, this is actually really compelling because it is not (not yet) easy to handle this. I'm getting better at it, but the constant grinding away of men in these gigantic frantic moshpits is rather difficult to set up perfectly, and they have to be planned on the battlemap; you have to make sure you simply have enough units to die in the constant sieges you get as Gondor. In the battle at W. Osgiliath in the image above, there are two gates the enemy can enter through, but the AI only recognizes the one. In general, the AI won't zerg rush so hard if you just give them a tiny bit of space between the chokepoints like gateways and your troops, so you'll generally have an easier time of it. But it doesn't quite work out that way, because the sheer numbers they have can really out-attrition your units in a standing fight. It ends up being easier to maintain the moshpit near gates because you'll lose slightly fewer men by cheesing it. The enemy focuses entirely on maneuvering their units beyond the gate, so they constantly try to rush into your spears. Less of them end up fighting that way. You have to optimize the grind.
In fact, that's why I restarted 3 times. The first time I tried a strategy of basically ignoring the economy until I could push out to conquer more land with the units I had. That quickly revealed itself to be impossible, because Mordor on Very Hard is constant doomstacks after turn 7 or so. I had to devote every single unit to the two chokepoints on the campaign map keeping Mordor away from the rest of Gondor and Rohan. In the end on my first attempt I was pushed back to Minas Tirith with a little more than half a stack and -6k money, -4k a turn, which is gg. The second restart was only a test of a way of managing the economy, as was the third. This fourth time is a real attempt that I'm going to play until the end. I've figured out that you'll never have a good economy as Gondor, but it's possible to at least have one if you use garrisons correctly and build mines. I'm having a blast because I've never lost a campaign in Total War, but it's a distinct possibility here, and the battles are difficult. The battles feel thematically perfect: just a few men saving the rest of the world from being overrun by a huge horde, but being slowly ground down by wave after wave. I can imagine late game still being incredibly difficult when I assault Mordor. If nothing else, should I get pushed back to the edge of the kingdom, I can board a boat and move elsewhere. I've actually done that before. It's rather fun.
I don't really enjoy modern Total War, even though I did start with Shogun 2. Medieval 2 is one of my favorite games. I love it a lot, and Third Age + its submods make it even more fun for me because of how they change the battles. It's not balanced, the design isn't based around minor differences in the roster like in vanilla M2. Most factions play completely differently and they all (save for bree, I've never played bree, fuck bree) have a number of super bullshit units that can win battles almost by themselves - add onto that many unique (and oft barely functional) custom battle locations, and it just becomes so fun.

DaC 4.5 is completely stable for me. You have to get it from moddb now, so here it is. RIP the TWC subforum. I'm using the thing that makes M2 use more than 2gb of RAM. https://www.moddb.com/mods/divide-and-conquer/downloads/divide-conquer-v45-eriador-rises
 

Borian

Guest
I've been dadjoked.
 

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