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Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

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The game can still be challenging with a Smilodon, too. And Wizards are actually game-breakingly powerful if you know how to use them.

As I said, I wouldn't argue that one should skip the Smilodon for power reasons, merely for reasons of not following the crowd to create a "perfect" build.

I wonder where experimenting with system to create optimal build fits into this worldview. Or whether player supposed to abandon everything too powerful he created after hours of exercises with test builds.

It's fine if you create the build yourself, that's part of the game. What's lame to me is following someone else's guide to perfection because you couldn't or didn't want to be creative yourself. You're missing out on a large part of the game that way.
 

volklore

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So there is actual extra content in EE ? I thought it was coined EE to re-launch with all current and extra bugfixes seeing how fast they delivered it.
They mentioned in their announcement that they were re-balancing the early and late game. Which I read as making those easier because of all the whining there has been about this game's difficulty since release. Anybody who's trying the beta can confirm this is the case ?

The game can still be challenging with a Smilodon, too.
Although it does get way easier at mid-game with any kind of competent build. The game is pretty good at reminding you you're not that big of a deal if you start slacking. Also wizards are super powerfull because of the spell selection, but tbh I can't handle the suffer early game. Old sycamore caves are just a pain on wizard (hard+) with the combat density there. Also I am always annoyed that I want to pick divination spec because of the school powers (great initiative boost and a great save reducing aura) but that's basically sacrificing a bunch of spell slots for it :(. Sage sorcs with heighten metamagic will end up just as flexible as wizards, and can ramp their DCs higher too.
 
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Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
For the Codexers that have played Challenging or Unfair, how well do pets hold up? I was under the impression that damage is so high that you need disables and buffs/debuffs, otherwise you will get stomped. Accordingly, Pets seem like an easy solution or crutch, but do pets just melt at that level?
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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For the Codexers that have played Challenging or Unfair, how well do pets hold up? I was under the impression that damage is so high that you need disables and buffs/debuffs, otherwise you will get stomped. Accordingly, Pets seem like an easy solution or crutch, but do pets just melt at that level?
Close to worthless on unfair until they get their upgrade at lvl4 or 7, plus animal growth (lvl 5 spell) plus mage armor, stat buffs, barkskin, shield of faith. Until then they pretty much get oneshot. Then again, still better than party members getting oneshot. Midgame they are ok-ish properly buffed, endgame their bad saves might become a problem.
 

Shadenuat

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Wild Gaze when used on animals does Fear instead of Paralyze so for endgame Remove Fear is everything you need to maul some fey with pets actually.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
For the Codexers that have played Challenging or Unfair, how well do pets hold up? I was under the impression that damage is so high that you need disables and buffs/debuffs, otherwise you will get stomped. Accordingly, Pets seem like an easy solution or crutch, but do pets just melt at that level?
Close to worthless on unfair until they get their upgrade at lvl4 or 7, plus animal growth (lvl 5 spell) plus mage armor, stat buffs, barkskin, shield of faith. Until then they pretty much get oneshot. Then again, still better than party members getting oneshot. Midgame they are ok-ish properly buffed, endgame their bad saves might become a problem.
That sounds tough. I am curious what melee class could manage Unfair, unless it is just "spray and pray" with spellcasters.
 

InD_ImaginE

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Pathfinder: Wrath
With how many combat in the game Turn Based would be a nightmare.

Trying to imagine clearing Pitax Palace on TB is insane and would take very long. Probably will make the game 2 to 3 times longer
 

Sharpedge

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Do I play it now or do I wait until its officially out, decisions :/
And fuck the Smilodon. I'll never use it as a pet. I'd rather pick the Centipede because I don't like groupthink.
It has been about 5 months since I last played through the game and finding my spreadsheets is hard, but from memory, for level 1-7 leopard was better and once you have access to a full array of buffs and can transform your pet into a dragon, a dog is better. That was based off monster ratings on unfair. So it wasn't just group think, it was incorrect group think.
Sylvan Sorcerers are pretty overpowered, are you sure you're being cool by picking one?
Pretty much all the casters are overpowered.
For the Codexers that have played Challenging or Unfair, how well do pets hold up? I was under the impression that damage is so high that you need disables and buffs/debuffs, otherwise you will get stomped. Accordingly, Pets seem like an easy solution or crutch, but do pets just melt at that level?
From my experience (solo unfair) the pet is a decent enough distraction in the early game that lets you cast 1 or 2 spells without instantly dying, which makes it much more manageable. Once you get to the House at the End of Time however, it was completely useless and would die if something breathed on it.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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That sounds tough. I am curious what melee class could manage Unfair, unless it is just "spray and pray" with spellcasters.
There's no melee class that can tank on unfair in the beginning. (i.e. chapter 1 and first half of ch2).
Even if you make a high AC character he will get oneshot. Say cha monk with 20 dex 18 cha, that 19 AC at level 1, +1 tartuk ring, +4 mage armor potion, +3 def fighting. AC27 at level 1, you'll get oneshot in the tutorial anyway. Normal mobs hit for up to 90 damage per hit (because after applying all those unfair stat bonuses the enemy damage is doubled), so you have to actually have an HP pool that lets you survive a hit before you can really tank. Plus it takes a while until you get all the feats/equipment etc so you can really make a melee char unhittable except on a 20 and then also have the illusion spells available to deal with the 20ies.
Your best bet is distraction with summons and , grease , stinking cloud. Make a wizard merc, 20 int, greater focus conjuration. Stinking cloud can carry you thru a lot of shit on unfair. Avoid the difficult fights like wolves in the cave, ratnook, trail in the hill, worg on sycamore map etc until that wizard made lvl5 and got stinking cloud.
 

Sharpedge

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That sounds tough. I am curious what melee class could manage Unfair, unless it is just "spray and pray" with spellcasters.
There's no melee class that can tank on unfair in the beginning. (i.e. chapter 1 and first half of ch2).
Even if you make a high AC character he will get oneshot. Say cha monk with 20 dex 18 cha, that 19 AC at level 1, +1 tartuk ring, +4 mage armor potion, +3 def fighting. AC27 at level 1, you'll get oneshot in the tutorial anyway. Normal mobs hit for up to 90 damage per hit (because after applying all those unfair stat bonuses the enemy damage is doubled), so you have to actually have an HP pool that lets you survive a hit before you can really tank. Plus it takes a while until you get all the feats/equipment etc so you can really make a melee char unhittable except on a 20 and then also have the illusion spells available to deal with the 20ies.
Your best bet is distraction with summons and , grease , stinking cloud. Make a wizard merc, 20 int, greater focus conjuration. Stinking cloud can carry you thru a lot of shit on unfair. Avoid the difficult fights like wolves in the cave, ratnook, trail in the hill, worg on sycamore map etc until that wizard made lvl5 and got stinking cloud.
A lot of guaranteed hit spells also make a difference.
 

glass blackbird

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The changes in the beta look excellent and I really respect Owlcat for continuously working on the game instead of dropping it after a couple of patches. The "Mixed" review on Steam is undeserved but casuals gonna casual.
This attitude is retarded, the game still has problems and launched literally unfinished so it's not hard to see why people would have given it bad reviews
 

volklore

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For the Codexers that have played Challenging or Unfair, how well do pets hold up? I was under the impression that damage is so high that you need disables and buffs/debuffs, otherwise you will get stomped. Accordingly, Pets seem like an easy solution or crutch, but do pets just melt at that level?
Close to worthless on unfair until they get their upgrade at lvl4 or 7, plus animal growth (lvl 5 spell) plus mage armor, stat buffs, barkskin, shield of faith. Until then they pretty much get oneshot. Then again, still better than party members getting oneshot. Midgame they are ok-ish properly buffed, endgame their bad saves might become a problem.
That sounds tough. I am curious what melee class could manage Unfair, unless it is just "spray and pray" with spellcasters.
Melee you kinda need dodge tanks with monk dip and even better if you get access to mirror image. The problem with unfair is not so much the bloated stats but more the damage modifier (taken x2). On hard, your tanks can take one or two hits from a big mob. On unfair they just get one shotted even with DR. Dodge tanks reach much higher touch AC than armor tanks as well so they don't suffer as much late game vs a lot of touch attacks. One of the key things is to never get caught flatfooted especially at the beginning of combat (expeditious retreat is key to kite while recovering your footing after combat start). Prologue is pure suffering though - no matter how you do it with a melee class. There are few classes that can be built to deal with the prologue relatively unscathed but they aren't necessarily going to do too well later on (scared huntsmaster inquisitor for example). Once you get out of the prologue it's all about taking the tempo dips (vivisectionist/monk) that allow you to close the stat gap early on.
 
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ArchAngel

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The changes in the beta look excellent and I really respect Owlcat for continuously working on the game instead of dropping it after a couple of patches. The "Mixed" review on Steam is undeserved but casuals gonna casual.
This attitude is retarded, the game still has problems and launched literally unfinished so it's not hard to see why people would have given it bad reviews
Overall score is not Mixed, but last 30 days is Mixed for some reason. Atm it is certainly not worth that.
 

Tao

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Sep 13, 2015
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So this EE version include the whole game with dlc and all the content or is just a rename for the new patch?

I'm still waiting for the whole pack sale to play the game :S
 

VentilatorOfDoom

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I did finish ch1 with a 18 str two-handed fighter on unfair, you can't tank for shit (at least for a long time) but you might be able to kill them first. e.g. 3 assassins in tutorial, set tartuk to daze the melee guy, charge the archers until you hit->kill->cleave->kill and then luck out on daze rolls until you killed the melee guy as well. Might take 20 reloads but you can make it fair and square. I planned to go 1sorc->4dd-> EK with that char.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Thanks everyone! I definitely need to understand the basics of the system before I even attempt Challenging/Unfair.
I planned to go 1sorc->4dd-> EK with that char.
That sounds interesting, would you mind elaborating on this build?
 

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