SpellForce 3 Reforced + Soul Harvest & Fallen God standalone expansions

[Alienman]

I'm on the first RTS mission now, playing on hard, and it might just be that I'm old and slow, but it seems the balance between party combat and RTS is out of whack again. On hard doing party stuff is really fun, it gets a bit dicey at times which it should get, but the RTS part. Holy Jesus. The first opponent is relentless and spam units like there is no tomorrow. In addition to that, every unit now has a special ability, and well... good luck making use of that when the armies meet. It's like one giant clusterfuck with units dying within seconds. Not sure what to think. I was hoping the RTS part would be better. It's still enjoyable but a bit disappointed it's the same mess as the original.

And mind you this is the first real RTS mission. Have me wondering what will come later.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Drunken Bulgars do not count.

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm on the first RTS mission now, playing on hard, and it might just be that I'm old and slow, but it seems the balance between party combat and RTS is out of whack again. On hard doing party stuff is really fun, it gets a bit dicey at times which it should get, but the RTS part. Holy Jesus. The first opponent is relentless and spam units like there is no tomorrow. In addition to that, every unit now has a special ability, and well... good luck making use of that when the armies meet. It's like one giant clusterfuck with units dying within seconds. Not sure what to think. I was hoping the RTS part would be better. It's still enjoyable but a bit disappointed it's the same mess as the original.

And mind you this is the first real RTS mission. Have me wondering what will come later.

They've never managed to balance anything on hard ever. The first game is ridiculous on that difficulty setting because, as mentioned previously, enemies spawn units out of thin air and can do that forever since they don't collect resources. I really have no idea what they were thinking with this design. I've always considered WC3's campaign to be, if not the best, one of the best RTS campaigns ever made and they should've emulated that instead. There's also the problem the units are numerous, instead of WC3's rather scarce population limit and very distinct units with useful abilities. Maybe it's their attempt to differentiate themselves from WC3, but I don't think that's a noble goal in this particular case, since the thing they've come up with is a headscratcher.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Overwhelming numbers is a shitty fix for inadequate AI.

 

[Alienman]

Yeah, it's not just that the enemy is plentiful, is that they have another huge army ready as soon as you defeat the first one. There is absolutely no time to rebuild or even capture a sector. Going down to normal, hopefully it will still be a challenge.

By the way, the AI work, as proven in skirmish. Makes me wonder they just don't use it for the campaign.

 

[fantadomat]

snip

Ohh look archfaggot is trying to be edgy and funny. Copying tags is just low effort,but what else could i expect from you.

Well i don't remember trying to kill a kickstart one of the most interesting RPGs in development,or forcing the studio to kick of one of their writers because "muh my ideology should be worshipped by all" and the whole thing ending with loosing a good admin on the codex. Nor do i try to sneak my way in to the codex pretending to be something different and constantly changing my avatar in hopes someone will assume that it is someone else. I don't remember also stalking all the active people in power only to collect dirt and slurp assholes in the hopes of raising up the ladder. I am what you see,a drunkard bastard,a shitposter and a fucking edgy troll from time to time. But i am not a fucking malevolent snake wanting to poison the codex.

 

[ArchAngel]

snip

Ohh look archfaggot is trying to be edgy and funny. Copying tags is just low effort,but what else could i expect from you.

Well i don't remember trying to kill a kickstart one of the most interesting RPGs in development,or forcing the studio to kick of one of their writers because "muh my ideology should be worshipped by all" and the whole thing ending with loosing a good admin on the codex. Nor do i try to sneak my way in to the codex pretending to be something different and constantly changing my avatar in hopes someone will assume that it is someone else. I don't remember also stalking all the active people in power only to collect dirt and slurp assholes in the hopes of raising up the ladder. I am what you see,a drunkard bastard,a shitposter and a fucking edgy troll from time to time. But i am not a fucking malevolent snake wanting to poison the codex.

Come on man, can't you take a joke.. or are you sober today?

 

[ArchAngel]

I'm on the first RTS mission now, playing on hard, and it might just be that I'm old and slow, but it seems the balance between party combat and RTS is out of whack again. On hard doing party stuff is really fun, it gets a bit dicey at times which it should get, but the RTS part. Holy Jesus. The first opponent is relentless and spam units like there is no tomorrow. In addition to that, every unit now has a special ability, and well... good luck making use of that when the armies meet. It's like one giant clusterfuck with units dying within seconds. Not sure what to think. I was hoping the RTS part would be better. It's still enjoyable but a bit disappointed it's the same mess as the original.

And mind you this is the first real RTS mission. Have me wondering what will come later.

They've never managed to balance anything on hard ever. The first game is ridiculous on that difficulty setting because, as mentioned previously, enemies spawn units out of thin air and can do that forever since they don't collect resources. I really have no idea what they were thinking with this design. I've always considered WC3's campaign to be, if not the best, one of the best RTS campaigns ever made and they should've emulated that instead. There's also the problem the units are numerous, instead of WC3's rather scarce population limit and very distinct units with useful abilities. Maybe it's their attempt to differentiate themselves from WC3, but I don't think that's a noble goal in this particular case, since the thing they've come up with is a headscratcher.

You sound like average RPG fan that just tried Kingmaker on hard and is now complaining that it is too hard

Hard is for 100+ apm players, why would everyone expect to be able to play on that if you suck at RTS games.

 

[fantadomat]

Come on man, can't you take a joke.. or are you sober today?

Sorry for being an asshole mate,i am sober today . I just got a tad bit butthurt there,getting compared to the type of slime that i despise the most of in the world did piss me off .

 

[ArchAngel]

But I will agree that it was very low effort attempt at trolling

 

[Lacrymas]

You sound like average RPG fan that just tried Kingmaker on hard and is now complaining that it is too hard

Hard is for 100+ apm players, why would everyone expect to be able to play on that if you suck at RTS games.

Rofl. It was never hard, it's cheap and very easy to exploit with only your heroes. Trust me, it isn't for "100+ apm" players.

 

[Alienman]

Seriously, fuck the devs for making the AI cheat. Even on normal it seems. This is a constant thing:

There is no room to breathe, no room to expand, or build defenses. I can't even find my heroes in this mess. They keep dying, stand no chance when 50 dudes plink at them the same time.

 

[Alienman]

I'm on the first RTS mission now, playing on hard, and it might just be that I'm old and slow, but it seems the balance between party combat and RTS is out of whack again. On hard doing party stuff is really fun, it gets a bit dicey at times which it should get, but the RTS part. Holy Jesus. The first opponent is relentless and spam units like there is no tomorrow. In addition to that, every unit now has a special ability, and well... good luck making use of that when the armies meet. It's like one giant clusterfuck with units dying within seconds. Not sure what to think. I was hoping the RTS part would be better. It's still enjoyable but a bit disappointed it's the same mess as the original.

And mind you this is the first real RTS mission. Have me wondering what will come later.

They've never managed to balance anything on hard ever. The first game is ridiculous on that difficulty setting because, as mentioned previously, enemies spawn units out of thin air and can do that forever since they don't collect resources. I really have no idea what they were thinking with this design. I've always considered WC3's campaign to be, if not the best, one of the best RTS campaigns ever made and they should've emulated that instead. There's also the problem the units are numerous, instead of WC3's rather scarce population limit and very distinct units with useful abilities. Maybe it's their attempt to differentiate themselves from WC3, but I don't think that's a noble goal in this particular case, since the thing they've come up with is a headscratcher.

You sound like average RPG fan that just tried Kingmaker on hard and is now complaining that it is too hard

Hard is for 100+ apm players, why would everyone expect to be able to play on that if you suck at RTS games.

Talking to me or Lacrymas ?

I finished the original on hard, but now it is just pissing me off. At least the original you could fuck up supply lines, but since that is gone now...

 

[Lacrymas]

Alienman, If there's a possibility, don't start the RTS section and just go with your heroes, that was the only way to beat some maps in SF1.

 

[fantadomat]

Alienman, If there's a possibility, don't start the RTS section and just go with your heroes, that was the only way to beat some maps in SF1.

Same was in SF2 and in here. If you clean the map well before going full rts,the game becomes a lot easier.

 

[JarlFrank]

I'm on the first RTS mission now, playing on hard, and it might just be that I'm old and slow, but it seems the balance between party combat and RTS is out of whack again. On hard doing party stuff is really fun, it gets a bit dicey at times which it should get, but the RTS part. Holy Jesus. The first opponent is relentless and spam units like there is no tomorrow. In addition to that, every unit now has a special ability, and well... good luck making use of that when the armies meet. It's like one giant clusterfuck with units dying within seconds. Not sure what to think. I was hoping the RTS part would be better. It's still enjoyable but a bit disappointed it's the same mess as the original.

And mind you this is the first real RTS mission. Have me wondering what will come later.

They've never managed to balance anything on hard ever. The first game is ridiculous on that difficulty setting because, as mentioned previously, enemies spawn units out of thin air and can do that forever since they don't collect resources. I really have no idea what they were thinking with this design. I've always considered WC3's campaign to be, if not the best, one of the best RTS campaigns ever made and they should've emulated that instead. There's also the problem the units are numerous, instead of WC3's rather scarce population limit and very distinct units with useful abilities. Maybe it's their attempt to differentiate themselves from WC3, but I don't think that's a noble goal in this particular case, since the thing they've come up with is a headscratcher.

Personally I like RTS games with huge unit counts in the army.

But an absolute MUST for RTS difficulty balancing is that you can damage the enemy's economy as well as he can yours.
To make it harder, designers are allowed to protect enemy gold mines with towers that exist from the start of the level, while you have no defenses to begin with, so if you want to damage the enemy economy you have to put some effort into it.

But making enemy army spawns independent from enemy resource gathering just makes things unfair and retarded.

Even giving enemies a resource collection bonus would be better. As long as you can do some actual damage to their economy. They need to play by the same rules as you or it's not fair.

 

[Lacrymas]

Being able to so easily cut this game into "RTS section and RPG section" betrays the whole design of this entire series, doesn't it? It was never a mix of RTS and RPG, it was just doing them at the same time. Unlike, say, WC3, where you can't compartmentalize the gameplay in such a way.

They need to play by the same rules as you or it's not fair.

The whole series is like this from the very beginning. Even non-factions, like the undead, in SF1 start with a few buildings that you have to destroy to stop them from spawning more units, but they don't collect resources or create the creatures from the buildings.

 

[JarlFrank]

The whole series is like this from the very beginning. Even non-factions, like the undead, in SF1 start with a few buildings that you have to destroy to stop them from spawning more units, but they don't collect resources or create the creatures from the buildings.

There are a bunch of pure RTS games out there that do the same thing. Apparently because the devs wanted to compensate for the AI being shit. The end result is frustrating grind that never leads you anywhere because enemy buildings keep spamming units while you run out of resources.

 

[ArchAngel]

I'm on the first RTS mission now, playing on hard, and it might just be that I'm old and slow, but it seems the balance between party combat and RTS is out of whack again. On hard doing party stuff is really fun, it gets a bit dicey at times which it should get, but the RTS part. Holy Jesus. The first opponent is relentless and spam units like there is no tomorrow. In addition to that, every unit now has a special ability, and well... good luck making use of that when the armies meet. It's like one giant clusterfuck with units dying within seconds. Not sure what to think. I was hoping the RTS part would be better. It's still enjoyable but a bit disappointed it's the same mess as the original.

And mind you this is the first real RTS mission. Have me wondering what will come later.

They've never managed to balance anything on hard ever. The first game is ridiculous on that difficulty setting because, as mentioned previously, enemies spawn units out of thin air and can do that forever since they don't collect resources. I really have no idea what they were thinking with this design. I've always considered WC3's campaign to be, if not the best, one of the best RTS campaigns ever made and they should've emulated that instead. There's also the problem the units are numerous, instead of WC3's rather scarce population limit and very distinct units with useful abilities. Maybe it's their attempt to differentiate themselves from WC3, but I don't think that's a noble goal in this particular case, since the thing they've come up with is a headscratcher.

You sound like average RPG fan that just tried Kingmaker on hard and is now complaining that it is too hard

Hard is for 100+ apm players, why would everyone expect to be able to play on that if you suck at RTS games.

Talking to me or Lacrymas ?

I finished the original on hard, but now it is just pissing me off. At least the original you could fuck up supply lines, but since that is gone now...

Both. You both whined about Hard being Hard. My experience with the game says that you can beat anything with enough effective APM. Game was designed to be that way. If your effective APM is below certain level you don't have any business playing on Hard. I didn't play on Hard because I don't have enough APM for it but I got enough experience with gameplay and other RTS games that depend on APM to see how inefficient I was in both macro and micro.

Just play on Normal if "unfair" Hard difficulty is irritating or too hard. And cheesing them during RPG parts is not beating it on Hard. It is just finding flaws in design.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Alienman and Lacrymas are being retarded. Normal is easy as fuck and it's the player that cheats on that difficulty.

Hard is the real normal difficulty, with players and enemies producing units at roughly an equal speed. Still easy because players will always be able to outsmart the AI (or maybe not in their case).

Rofl. It was never hard, it's cheap and very easy to exploit with only your heroes. Trust me, it isn't for "100+ apm" players.

I've finished every game in the series without doing that, and it's not even possible in Soul Harvest because enemies are heavily fortified at the start of every battle and heroes are gimped.

But an absolute MUST for RTS difficulty balancing is that you can damage the enemy's economy as well as he can yours.

You absolutely can, contrary to what Lacrymas says without ever having played the game.

You sound like average RPG fan that just tried Kingmaker on hard and is now complaining that it is too hard

Hard is for 100+ apm players, why would everyone expect to be able to play on that if you suck at RTS games.

Agreed, these posts reek of casuals. To a veteran, insane is the only difficulty that presents a remote challenge.

 

[Alienman]

Meh. I did finish Spellforce 3 on hard. I do agree that normal is piss easy, now that the difficulty change has taken effect in my game. I just don't know what fun it is to spam units to counter the AI spamming units. It should not be required having Korean level of micro to get some tactics out of it.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Soul Harvest has a lot of unique mechanics to circumvent the typical RTS clashes.

For example, the new Dwarven faction can build tunnels to connect any two points on the map, and have flying dropships that can land an army right on the enemy capital. There's plenty of room for creativity.

 

[Lacrymas]

Safav Hamon, wow, you really are a smarmy weasel, aren't you? I've been talking about SF1 this entire time, like I said multiple times, and criticizing the design that was also present in the demo of SF3, which I assumed was also in the full game, and a lot of people have confirmed this. This design was never "hard", it's a cheap and unfair way to try to inflate the difficulty, which is also subject to exploits because the game divides itself into neat sections. On one map in SF1 on hard, you couldn't gather resources fast enough to make an army big enough to tip the scales in your favor. The enemies assaulted you constantly from 3 directions, and you needed a bunch of towers + your entire army to fend them back, losing it in the process. You can't "outsmart" the AI because you can't control the abilities of units, they use them whenever they want to, I tried with a lot of army compositions before I restarted the map and rushed in with only heroes. I didn't just attack move and try to facetank everything. You also can't damage their economy because they have no economy. So don't pretend you are better than us and hard is "made for 100+ apm players" when this design has been criticized since the first game. At most, there could be much more overpowered skill categories for your heroes and that's why it's possible to finish the map with the intended strategy, while less useful heroes can't.

 

[Safav Hamon]

You did what you always do, which is draw conclusions about a game you haven't played based on completely unrelated experiences. By your own admission, you've only beaten several missions of the original through cheesing. I've beaten all three campaigns twice, and while it's true the balancing is often unfair towards the player, it's a lie to say you can't win or outsmart the enemy without cheese.

But this isn't Spellforce 1. It's a completely new game with entirely new mechanics, and unlike you I've actually played it. Any competent RTS player should be able to steamroll the enemy AI on hard without any cheese.

 

[Lacrymas]

What you are trying to do is defend bullshit and unfair design for some reason I can't comprehend, while also trying to denigrate others who have valid criticisms that don't boil down to lack of skill. Is it technically possible to beat the only map I had to rush in the first game? Probably with a better hero, but that's hardly relevant. And maybe I do indeed just need to git gud, but I've played games my whole life and have never had the same situation in any other game ever, so I'm going to trust my experience on this and say it's cheap and bullshit enough without taking into account my skill level, especially when other people have confirmed the same and we have other examples of good AI/difficulty design.