Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Elminage ORIGINAL - Priestess of Darkness and The Ring of the Gods

Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
yeah, that too.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Is it possible to gain 4 spells in one level-up? curious if worth trying to save scum a cleric to lvl 13 so I don't have to wait another level to switch.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
i can't remember if you can learn 4, but i do remember learning rate is directly tied to the governing Attribute. reload a few times and see if it happens, but don't waste more than 10 minutes on that; might as well just use that time and spend it getting more EXP.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Having an unusual amount of trouble trying to get a succubus with my summoner. even dropping several alchemist spell reductions and dozens of contracts hasn't helped. Bestiary says they have 55% summon protection, so it shouldn't be this hard.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Got a soul slave summon. very disappointing. when i'm fighting them they regenerate ~200 health at the end of every turn but when they're on my side they only do it once.

can't believe i replaced my phoenix with them
 

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Ugh, replaced a phoenix? Really?
That's like one of the top summons.

I remember some kind of fox being kinda good.

Still, the summons in Original aren't as useful as in Gothic, I've felt.

And can't make monster adventurers (I mean there's some fusion mechanic instead, but... meh).
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
enemy soul slaves use enterook mista and regenerate the entire party constantly, nixes are best when they use their breath against the front line but my samurai and thief already destroy enemy frontlines, i would have liked a caster that nukes the back row as well. unfortunately, the summoned ones have only one healing item, unlike the enemy ones, so their effectiveness is severely diminished.

contracting another phoenix was trivial, monsters seem to be a lot easier to contract than humanoid enemies

How does the fusion mechanic work? I like the idea of having monster abilities (especially having characters that scale both magic and physical later on) but not the idea of giving up humanoid characters and walking around with a zoo.
 
Self-Ejected

aweigh

Self-Ejected
Joined
Aug 23, 2005
Messages
17,978
Location
Florida
I can't remember right now but I think you can only unlock monster fusion (marriage they call it) in the post-game of Elminage: Original. I never bothered with it so I may be wrong.

You can fuse away in Gothic, though.

EDIT: Yeah, actual monster fusion (creating proper monster adventurers) wasn't built in as a class feature until Elminage 2, which is why it's in Gothic but not in Original.

Originally, in Elminage 1, there was no kind of monster fusion at all, however when they remade the game and re-titled it "Original" (yes, E: Original is actually a remake of the first Elminage game, and much better than it as well), they added the ability to marry a monster with a party member, throw in a few items as well into the mix, and create a new character with custom stats, abilities and even items.

You can only unlock this in E: Original by clearing the post-game dungeon of its 8 Demon Lord bossess and then visiting an NPC in that map who will do the marriage ceremony (it's pretty funny). By the time you accomplish this, however, the only content left is beating the different Gods. It was more of an "secret" thing than an actual game feature in E: Original.

You can go crazy with the monster adventurers in E: Gothic, though. There it's an actual class feature/service that can be done and it incentivizes poke-capturing the best monsters in order to create completely OP monster adventurers.

Personally speaking though, that was never that big of a draw for me. I hadn't even bothered looking up this info concerning summoned monsters in E: Original until just now.
 
Last edited:

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
is there any way to change race (other than demon wings)? I made a devilish hunter which basically means I can't use good bows

edit: nvm i figured out how to cheat infinite xp and just remade xir

Is there new game + in the pc version?
 
Last edited:

Dorarnae

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
721
is there any way to change race (other than demon wings)? I made a devilish hunter which basically means I can't use good bows

edit: nvm i figured out how to cheat infinite xp and just remade xir

Is there new game + in the pc version?

yeah there's new game +, otherwise you can't really fight the true final boss.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
for the "final" battle, do the sorceresses in the back row have anything unique that I can steal? is the battle repeatable immediately after?

edit: looks like you can repeat boss battles from
elminage
 
Last edited:

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
What about the wandering gods? is there anything unique/worth stealing on them?

does new game + do anything other than reset quests (and i assume, map fog)? like increasing enemy levels?

edit: just beat ildorah and damn, that was a fight. lost a good 7 levels between 3 characters to miracle.

edit 2: monster marriage is pretty disappointing. you get random stats (i assume based on the items you offer and the monster you marry), and they can have pretty high resistances. IE: marrying my thief to a doom mantis and offering death tentacles, demon saber and saint's spear produced a male valkyrie with innate petrification/behead chance and some minor resistances.

marrying soul slave + one of the items was salome's veil got me very high cleric/alchemist spell resistance.

was hoping you could get both physical and magic scaling on a monster or otherwise acquire class abilities from them but it doesn't look like you get more than just secondary stats
 
Last edited:

Dorarnae

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
721
new game + increase your rare drop %, you can fight the true final boss by finding all the ring without gaining/using any fame and you get an item once you revisit elminage.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
new game + increase your rare drop %, you can fight the true final boss by finding all the ring without gaining/using any fame and you get an item once you revisit elminage.

Without GAINING any fame? Do I keep the town quest bonuses (IE: higher storage capacity, free alchemy, evil/good mix, etc.)?
 

Dorarnae

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
721
just get some fame and locate a ring, then reload and get it and repeat...if you can't beat the true final boss, you can just gain some fame and it'll be the normal final battle instead.

I think you keep storage but the shop where you can sell your monster items, you'll have to redo that one which is a pain (10 anks I beleive?)
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
just get some fame and locate a ring, then reload and get it and repeat...if you can't beat the true final boss, you can just gain some fame and it'll be the normal final battle instead.

I think you keep storage but the shop where you can sell your monster items, you'll have to redo that one which is a pain (10 anks I beleive?)

Is there a limit to how many times you can start over?
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
beat ashtare, was a lot easier than ildorah, helped a lot that my lord and valk are both immune to charm. after she paralyzed my samurai i left him that way although my hunter gets a special award for killing the valk and bishop in 1 turn.

Ashtare's robe seems pretty useless so far, at least on my bishop. normal monsters in final dungeon still routinely block earthquake, line petrification and even measly fire damage spells

edit: after some testing it seems to just ignore enemy status effect resistances (including from spells). no reduction of elemental or magic resistance.
 
Last edited:

Dorarnae

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
721
dude, some of those god items are godly. they each give a different blessing and you can't have the same blessing on two character...the robe is pretty good.
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
dude, some of those god items are godly. they each give a different blessing and you can't have the same blessing on two character...the robe is pretty good.

Do the gods from the altar on level 4 of the bonus dungeon give items with blessings? i couldn't find any info on their loot
 

Dorarnae

Arbiter
Joined
Jan 21, 2016
Messages
721
dude, some of those god items are godly. they each give a different blessing and you can't have the same blessing on two character...the robe is pretty good.

Do the gods from the altar on level 4 of the bonus dungeon give items with blessings? i couldn't find any info on their loot

no, but if your thief is high enough, you can steal the same item the wandering god gives...
 

Mastermind

Cognito Elite Material
Patron
Bethestard
Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
21,144
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
fun fact: if you put any enchantments on the archivist wand it loses its fame damage increase and adding fame to it while enchanted doesn't do anything.
 

Jamma

Novice
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
30
Close to 30 hours in, stuck on the fight against the dark sorceress.
The game is great at times, but sadly it's brought down by a bunch of horrible stuff. I'm playing the PSP version, so some of it might have been fixed on PC.

- The thief feels bad. I'm at the end of the game and I still can't steal anything and half of the items are hidden behind this feature. And this guy is fucking useless and boring.
- Healing at town should be done automatically, or have a heal all for a cost button. Pointless menu.
- Giving an item is so hard. What a shit menu.
- the cheapest potions (10 gold each) should have been replaced with an item that auto-refills upon visits to town, this way you don't have to buy them when you come back. Again, remove menu bloat.
- Gold should have been independent from characters, like most modern games do it. It's a pain in the ass to revive a downed party not because of the gold penalty, but due to to - you guessed it - messing around in menus.
- Most quests aren't fun. Should have been more hand crafted encounters involved.
- Opening trapped chests is boring. The thief is mandatory (I'm probably wrong but I don't know an alternative), and his role is to essentially remove this game mechanic. It reduces trapped chests to another mandatory menu that doesn't offer any interesting decisions to the player. I would change it to having a visible failure chance to opening a chest, that is at least 5%, so you always have to consider if it's worth it. Thief level reduces failure chance but it's always a factor to consider. I would also instantly open the chest if it isn't trapped. REMOVE MENUS.
- I really like the limits on inventory space. You got 8 slots for equipable items, and 2 more for other items (loot and consumables). It makes you consider whether it's worth it to takes less equipment than you can so you can haul more on the way back.
- On the other hand, consumables feel kinda weak. There's no reason to use them unless you're a useless thief. Kind of a shame because it clashes with the limit on inventory space. That limit would have been way more important if you had to consider giving up on some equipable items in favor of consumables.
- The intro dungeon is way better in Original than in Gothic. It would still be good if the game had a default quick start party for the newbs. You want a thief for hidden doors, someone with mahama (escape fight), and diorome (teleport). I'm sure experienced players can do without those, but why not make it easy for new players?
- The dungeon design is fun because it feels like a place that might exist, but it's also kind of bad. The best way to move is to ignore all doors, which have nothing of interest behind them, and move on to the exit.
3A20tD2.jpg
- Saving should have been moved into the town menu, or the map menu. It shouldn't be in a separate menu.
- I don't like having teleport in this game. Hopefully Gothic doesn't have it. It removes resource management, as you can always teleport in and out. It turns exploration to safe and boring, and encounters become all about the mage surviving. Deaths and resources used don't matter anymore. I would remove it and add shortcuts to the dungeon, that you unlock as you explore. This way you get the benefit of getting faster back to where you were, but without removing resource management altogether. It also rewards exploration.
- Seriously, this game gives you no reason to explore whatsoever, and it feels like a chore once you can teleport.
- I would add a gold-for-exp convertor in town to get rid of excess gold, which would fix the economy, and remove grinding when training new characters at the later stages of the game.
- I like how the game opens up after the tutorial.

I'm kinda done with the game at this point. I'll play something else for a bit before giving Gothic another chance.
 
Last edited:

Haplo

Prophet
Patron
Joined
Sep 14, 2016
Messages
6,138
Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Some random replies/comments:

- The thief feels bad. I'm at the end of the game and I still can't steal anything and half of the items are hidden behind this feature. And this guy is fucking useless and boring.
Perhaps you went trough the game too fast? Thief is pretty great in Original. Particulerly for parties with Brawlers and Hunters. Immediately after reaching the steal ability (level 26, I think), I went to the heart of the forest and majorly upgraded the equipment for like half of my party.
You can take weapons and other equipment from bosses and special enemies, like that deamon party that keeps stalking you or the other bosses.
Also handy to steal ores, ankhs and such from some enemies.
Plus you can disarm opponents...
On the other hand, Thief is indeed pretty useless in Gothic.

- Opening trapped chests is boring. The thief is mandatory (I'm probably wrong but I don't know an alternative), and his role is to essentially remove this game mechanic. It reduces trapped chests to another mandatory menu that doesn't offer any interesting decisions to the player. I would change it to having a visible failure chance to opening a chest, that is at least 5%, so you always have to consider if it's worth it. Thief level reduces failure chance but it's always a factor to consider. I would also instantly open the chest if it isn't trapped. REMOVE MENUS.

You don't need thief to disarm traps. You can use a ninja, hunter, even bard I think. Or thief-type summons (they are pretty good at that!). Or even Alchemy spells. Thiefs are just better at it.

- I don't like having teleport in this game. Hopefully Gothic doesn't have it. It removes resource management, as you can always teleport in and out. It turns exploration to safe and boring, and encounters become all about the mage surviving. Deaths and resources used don't matter anymore. I would remove it and add shortcuts to the dungeon, that you unlock as you explore. This way you get the benefit of getting faster back to where you were, but without removing resource management altogether. It also rewards exploration.

You do get Diomente in Gothic. Although you first need to beat some nasty mazes without it.
Diomente doesn't work in the biggest, final, 20-floor post game duengeon though.

- Seriously, this game gives you no reason to explore whatsoever, and it feels like a chore once you can teleport.

You explore some side-quests and secrets.
Regarding exploration, going the fastest way trough isn't necessarily the best way to play. You become underlevelled and each of the floors has a unique set of items the chests there may contain (divided into common, uncommon and rare categories... so 3 possibilities for each item rolled). Consequently you're also underequipped by moving to fast and not opening chests from most fixed encounters.
 

Jamma

Novice
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
30
I felt like game was properly balanced in terms of difficulty, so I avoided grinding in order not to trivialize the combat. Getting the best items would again make the combat easier. It's an habit from playing JRPGs, but maybe I shouldn't have as the game is difficult enough. I'm pretty sure I got to the dark sorceress with characters at levels 19-24 or something like that.
I also didn't save scum during level-ups. Should I do so for Gothic? In general, is it a game where you should feel free to break it, so to speak? I usually avoid meta tactics like save scumming and searching for information online.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom