Vapourware System Shock 3 by OtherSide Entertainment - taken over by Tencent!

[MasterLobar]

The ship is sinking. The rats start abandoning it.

 

[LESS T_T]

Video interview from Nordic Game conference: https://www.gamereactor.eu/system-shock-3-will-allow-players-to-tell-their-own-stories/

System Shock 3 will allow players to tell their own stories
We had a chat with Warren Spector about System Shock 3 at Nordic Game 2019

We were on location at Nordic Game 2019 and while there, we had a quick chat with industry icon Warren Spector, mainly about narrative structure and Otherside Entertainment's anticipated System Shock 3, but also about Google Stadia and the past and potential future of Disney in video games. Spector is known for his narrative design and during our interview, he had plenty to share regarding just that.

Prior to the interview, we listened to Spector talk about shared ownership, and when asked about it, he explained it further:

"If you look at all my games they've basically been the same game. Different content of course, but I've been trying for the last 36 years to empower players to tell their own stories. What shared authorship means is that there's a dialogue between player and developer where the developer provides a context for player action, the what and why of what you're doing, but the players get to own the 'minute-to-minute', so the 'I did this, then this happened'".

Narrative structure and design aside, all eyes are on System Shock 3 right now, and rightfully so. While we didn't get much information out of Spector, we did learn something new, but perhaps unsurprising.

"I'm not ready to talk too much about System Shock 3, but I think it's safe to say that it will allow players to tell their own stories and create unique experiences. That I will always do, I have no interest in making games that don't do that", Spector explained, and continued; "If I were ever in a position where I had to stop making games like that I would stop making games".

 

[agris]

Refund: The Game.

 

[Nyast]

Marketing bullshit. Every single video game allows players to tell their own stories and create unique experiences. Otherwise they'd be called movies.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Marketing bullshit. Every single video game allows players to tell their own stories and create unique experiences. Otherwise they'd be called movies.

What about linear games? Do those allow you to make your own story? What about Until Dawn? Or that rat plague innocence crap that came out recently? Or a shooter? Or a racing game? What are the player authored stories in these ones? Using a different gun or weapon to kill an enemy or perhaps a grenade? Using a different car to win?
There's a reason that RPGs and immersive sims are appreciated, they allow for multiple playstyles and approaches, emergent gameplay and solutions.

 

[Nyast]

Marketing bullshit. Every single video game allows players to tell their own stories and create unique experiences. Otherwise they'd be called movies.

What about linear games? Do those allow you to make your own story? What about Until Dawn? Or that rat plague innocence crap that came out recently? Or a shooter? Or a racing game? What are the player authored stories in these ones? Using a different gun or weapon to kill an enemy or perhaps a grenade? Using a different car to win?
There's a reason that RPGs and immersive sims are appreciated, they allow for multiple playstyles and approaches, emergent gameplay and solutions.

My point was that he (Warren Spector) was using a generic marketing catch-all sentence ( "it will allow players to tell their own stories and create unique experiences" ) that means absolutely nothing. It could mean the game indeed allows multiple playstyles and approaches with emergent gameplay, but it could also mean it's going to be yet another mostly linear experience, but guess what, games being interactive means that nobody will have the same experience anyways, that even applies to Tetris if you want to stretch the logic to its extremes.

It's interesting that you mention "Until Dawn", because although the game is incredibly linear, it allowed for branching in the story in terms of who gets to live and who dies, and the game was marketed around "multiple playstyles and C&Q", in a way that's similar to what Warren Spector just said about SS3.

In other words, don't get deceived by marketing tricks and wait for the game to be released to see if there's indeed something deeper going on, or if you're gonna get Ultima Ascendent Part 2 with a System Shock skin.

 

[Infinitron]

It's not marketing, it's just Warren Spector's immersive sim evangelist spiel that he's been using for years and years.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Marketing bullshit. Every single video game allows players to tell their own stories and create unique experiences.

 

[MasterLobar]

In other words, don't get deceived by marketing tricks and wait for the game to be released.

Semi-regular reminder: This game is not going to be released.

It's now almost 4 months since Starbreeze cancelled the deal. That's more than enough time to present the game to any publisher who might even remotely be interested. It's obvious that everyone turned it down.

And the BS interview that said they are going to self-publishing it...don't make me laugh. (btw, that confirmed no on else is interested)

 

[Child of Malkav]

Marketing bullshit. Every single video game allows players to tell their own stories and create unique experiences. Otherwise they'd be called movies.

What about linear games? Do those allow you to make your own story? What about Until Dawn? Or that rat plague innocence crap that came out recently? Or a shooter? Or a racing game? What are the player authored stories in these ones? Using a different gun or weapon to kill an enemy or perhaps a grenade? Using a different car to win?
There's a reason that RPGs and immersive sims are appreciated, they allow for multiple playstyles and approaches, emergent gameplay and solutions.

My point was that he (Warren Spector) was using a generic marketing catch-all sentence ( "it will allow players to tell their own stories and create unique experiences" ) that means absolutely nothing. It could mean the game indeed allows multiple playstyles and approaches with emergent gameplay, but it could also mean it's going to be yet another mostly linear experience, but guess what, games being interactive means that nobody will have the same experience anyways, that even applies to Tetris if you want to stretch the logic to its extremes.

It's interesting that you mention "Until Dawn", because although the game is incredibly linear, it allowed for branching in the story in terms of who gets to live and who dies, and the game was marketed around "multiple playstyles and C&Q", in a way that's similar to what Warren Spector just said about SS3.

In other words, don't get deceived by marketing tricks and wait for the game to be released to see if there's indeed something deeper going on, or if you're gonna get Ultima Ascendent Part 2 with a System Shock skin.

I understand. Also, there was no specific reason why I mentioned Until Dawn, it just came to me, it could have been any other interactive movie. And the choices you make of who lives and who dies was the only thing it had going for it.
My point is that such "games" do not give the opportunity to create unique experiences or stories. When one player is confronted with an A, B, C choice, him and probably a few other thousands that pick A for example are going to get the same experience. The same goes for those who pick B or C. Such games cannot allow for divergence or experimentation.
One of the recent examples, RDR2 was criticized for its archaic design approach to missions, as in if you don't follow the exact path the developers intended or deviate slightly from it you get rewarded with a mission failed screen. This, in an age where Thief/System Shock/Arx Fatalis/Dark Messiah/Deus Ex/Dishonored/Prey 2017/Divinity Original Sin 2 and others happened.

 

[Steamboat Willie]

There's next to zero interest for this. Otherside's official forums (all of them, sidewide) go 1-2 days in between replies to any thread.

 

[MasterLobar]

Their website is labelled a security risk for almost a week now, because no one renews their security certificate.

I think they know it's over and don't care much themselves anymore.

 

[LESS T_T]

It's renewed yesterday, to 2021 fwiw.

 

[MasterLobar]

All my browsers (Firefox, Edge, Chrome) say no secure connection, loading page not recommended.

https://www.othersideentertainment.com

 

[LESS T_T]

Oh, I think that's old domain. otherside-e.com is the domain they've been using several years. othersideentertainment.com redirects to the current domain, but looks like their certificate does not cover the old domain now and you're trying to access it via HTTPS protocol (from bookmarked address, I guess?).

 

[MasterLobar]

That's correct, thanks!

 

[LESS T_T]

Another piece from VGC, Warren Spector on violence in System Shock 3, probably from the same interview done in Reboot conference in April: https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/developers-have-an-obligation-over-game-violence/

Developers ‘have an obligation over game violence’
WARREN SPECTOR SAYS HE’S FINDING IT ‘VERY HARD’ TO BALANCE GORE IN SYSTEM SHOCK 3


Warren Spector has found it “very hard” to balance the level of violence in System Shock 3, considering his stance against gratuitous gore in games, he’s said.

The System Shock designer has previously spoken out against gratuitous violence in games and told VGC in a recent interview that his ambition is to one day create a game that has no weapons.

However, with System Shock 3 being in part survival horror, Spector said he is going to listen to his team and the game’s audience before deciding on a balance.

“It’s very hard, to be honest with you,” the designer said. “System Shock at one level is a survival horror game and achieving horror is about creating tension and making people stop to wonder what lies around the corner.

“There are expectations with a game like System Shock that I’m going to go a little bit further [with violence] than I normally would. So what I’m trying to do is listen to my team, listen to the audience and adjust my beliefs, or work within my beliefs, appropriately.”

Spector added that even Epic Mickey, the Wii adventure game he created with Disney, didn’t achieve his ambition of creating a weapon-free game experience.

“Some day I want to create a game that has no weapons. I can’t tell you how much I want to do that. Epic Mickey was kind of an attempt at that, but the deep, dark secret was that with the paint thinner you still had a weapon, to be honest.

“With System Shock 3 it’s going to be a very delicate balance and we’ll see if I fall into one side of that.”

In March 2018 Spector reacted to a video reel of violent games shown at a White House Meeting, featuring games from the Call of Duty, Fallout and Wolfenstein series.

Spector stated at the time that “everyone associated with those games should be ashamed of themselves.” However, he now concedes that the footage shown “doesn’t reflect the majority of games on the market.”

“That video was put together specifically to show the very, very worst and it doesn’t reflect the majority of games on the market,” he said. “So it is kind of a trap to use that as a starting point for a critique of the entire medium.

“I have a tendency to overstate to make my point and I may have fallen into that trap.”



However, the Deus Ex creator said he still feels that game developers have a responsibility to be “sensible” with the level of violence in their games.

“There are things that I think are too far, there’s no question. I wish the audience would fight back and I wish other developers would show a little bit more restraint,” he said. “I just don’t see any reason for a chainsaw, or a meat hook, or decapitation in a game, ever. It’s in bad taste.

“I genuinely don’t believe that games cause behaviours, but there is good taste and bad taste. I think developers have some obligation to just be sensible about stuff. But I also don’t want to fall into the trap of telling people what games they should make.”

System Shock 3 was most recently shown at GDC in March, when Spector confirmed it’s being made with the Unity engine.

 

[Machocruz]

This fucking Warring Spectre guy is a gas bag. Every time I see or hear about this fool, he's blabbing about muh vision for games and design theory shit. Same crap for how long, but where's the beef? Meanwhile you have other developers who mostly keep their mouths shut, get to work, and release multiple, halfway decent games in the time it takes him to produce one mickey mouse trash game with his "vision." He's like that one person who keeps telling you about his grand plans for this, that, and the other, but nothing changes for 10 years.

In the words of Laurence Olivier "My dear boy, why don't you just try making a game?"

 

[Steamboat Willie]

This fucking Warring Spectre guy is a gas bag. Every time I see or hear about this fool, he's blabbing about muh vision for games and design theory shit. Same crap for how long, but where's the beef? Meanwhile you have other developers who mostly keep their mouths shut, get to work, and release multiple, halfway decent games in the time it takes him to produce one mickey mouse trash game with his "vision." He's like that one person who keeps telling you about his grand plans for this, that, and the other, but nothing changes for 10 years.

In the words of Laurence Olivier "My dear boy, why don't you just try making a game?"

Well, those who can't do, teach. Or in Spector's case - preach. When was the last time this fuck made a good game? Where does his ego come from? Epic fucking Mickey?

 

[AMysteriousStranger]

Another piece from VGC, Warren Spector on violence in System Shock 3, probably from the same interview done in Reboot conference in April: https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/developers-have-an-obligation-over-game-violence/

It is very ironic that this is coming from the same guy that made a game that allowed you to kill children

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

Another piece from VGC, Warren Spector on violence in System Shock 3, probably from the same interview done in Reboot conference in April: https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/developers-have-an-obligation-over-game-violence/

It is very ironic that this is coming from the same guy that made a game that allowed you to kill children

He just inherited this piece of game design from Lord British.

 

[BEvers]

 

[BEvers]

 

[Steamboat Willie]

So are they not even doing development in the mean time?

 

[Viata]

So, it's dead, right?