Are RTWP doomed to be less popular then turnbased

[unfairlight]

TB and Realtime are inherently easier to setup with a controller.

That's implying any turn based games are even popular on console.

 

[Mustawd]

TB and Realtime are inherently easier to setup with a controller.

That's implying any turn based games are even popular on console.

DOS1, DOS2, XCOM and XCOM2 were pretty popular. Mario XCOM was also pretty well received.

EDIT: Realtime games are still more popular mind you. But TB is still a more popular approach nowadays than RTwP.

EDIT2: Wasn’t DQ11 Turn-based? I seem to remember that being really popular.

 

[Old Hans]

final fantasy 12 had the best real time with pause combat.

 

[Black Angel]

final fantasy 12 had the best real time with pause combat.

Don't forget that it also has a gauge mechanic which means actions takes a while to be performed based on said actions, and a gambit system. This two, I think, is what makes the RTwP of FFXII to be quite enjoyable and at the very least tolerable.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

To answer the OP: Yes.

TB and Realtime are inherently easier to setup with a controller. RTwP? Not so much.

Tell it to KOTOR

 

[Barabus]

RTWP ROCKS

 

[Mustawd]

Stfu Barney. No one asked you.

 

[aeroaeko]

rtwp usually requires more pausing at higher levels than turn based anyway. just allows you to clear trash fights quicker

 

[Ismaul]

And if you remove trash fights, IE style RTwP loses its reason for existing.

 

[Machocruz]

The starting premise if flawed. There are hundreds of millions of people playing video games today. DOS isn't anything near mainstream, not even 2% of the game playing population have played it. Skyrim is the closest thing there is to a mainstream RPG, and even it didn't sell to at least half the population, Skyrim toys are not lining Wal-Mart shelves, it's not selling juice boxes. No RTwP games are at the mainstream level either.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The starting premise if flawed. There are hundreds of millions of people playing video games today. DOS isn't anything near mainstream, not even 2% of the game playing population have played it. Skyrim is the closest thing there is to a mainstream RPG, and even it didn't sell to at least half the population, Skyrim toys are not lining Wal-Mart shelves, it's not selling juice boxes. No RTwP games are at the mainstream level either.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/FUNKO-POP-GAMES-SKYRIM-DOVAHKIIN/46349369

 

[Machocruz]

The starting premise if flawed. There are hundreds of millions of people playing video games today. DOS isn't anything near mainstream, not even 2% of the game playing population have played it. Skyrim is the closest thing there is to a mainstream RPG, and even it didn't sell to at least half the population, Skyrim toys are not lining Wal-Mart shelves, it's not selling juice boxes. No RTwP games are at the mainstream level either.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/FUNKO-POP-GAMES-SKYRIM-DOVAHKIIN/46349369

I stand corrected on the toys, although I wouldn't call that "lining store shelves," like all the different Minecraft and Mario toys I've seen from various manufacturers. I'd say at 20-30 million units a game begins to enter the actual mainstream of entertainment.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Can't think of a single RTWP besides dragon age that has done well with mainstream audience.
In comparison, DOS2 and DOS1 have been hugely popular and even people who don't know the words 'dnd' have played DOS2.

People can say whatever thay want about DOS1-2, but man they had such an impact it completely turned around how TB vs RTwP are perceived in the mainstream. Used to be TB was considered a niche system for cRPGs, not good for sales, while RTwP was the safe option.

Great incline!

Let's not complain if that's true, even mainstream audience can be right every now and then, just like a broken clock giving the right time twice a day.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The starting premise if flawed. There are hundreds of millions of people playing video games today. DOS isn't anything near mainstream, not even 2% of the game playing population have played it. Skyrim is the closest thing there is to a mainstream RPG, and even it didn't sell to at least half the population, Skyrim toys are not lining Wal-Mart shelves, it's not selling juice boxes. No RTwP games are at the mainstream level either.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/FUNKO-POP-GAMES-SKYRIM-DOVAHKIIN/46349369

I stand corrected on the toys, although I wouldn't call that "lining store shelves," like all the different Minecraft and Mario toys I've seen from various manufacturers. I'd say at 20-30 million units a game begins to enter the actual mainstream of entertainment.

If Skyrim was a movie it would be one of the highest grossing films of all time.
Your concept of mainstream is strange.

 

[Sensuki]

Turn based in Isometric-style party based RPGs is much easier and cheaper to implement to an okay standard than real-time/real-time with pause in isometric party-based RPGs.

RTS games (from which RTwP stems) where you command a squad are also virtually non-existent at the moment, made virtually extinct by mostly single character control MOBA style games. Darklands, Baldur's Gate and it's ilk existed in a time when RTS games were popular. Developers and players had a sense of how they worked. These days. they do not.

I'll be surprised if Larian attempt to do real-time with pause. Turn-based is popular enough now and it's what their fanbase is built on, there are only two reasons I can see that they would do it - contractual requirement, or Swen wants to stay true to the format of the series. From a business perspective, it's a worse decision than sticking with TB.

 

[a Goat]

Am not sure if that means hes retarded but he does well in school

Don't see the connection.

I'm pretty sure it was more Obsidian's monumental fuck up than it was Larian's merit.

Did obsidian really fuck up that much tho? I mean I can't really find that many outright flaws in the system beyond maybe the stats, especially defensive ones making every buff feel unimpactful(even if irl it was) and the fact that there was no d&d fighter there who just attacks enemies which made it crucial to pause every 0,25s at times and even then it could be at least partially avoided by just binding the shit out of your character's skills. I've played deadfire recently and it really doesn't feel like that much of a fuckup.

As for the main question - TB was always cleaner way of doing combat. RTwP makes it much more of a clusterfuck but gives sone advantages like making interrupt mechanics(which not all games have) pointless, or allowing you to implement some other realistic elements - however if you haven't noticed, IE games don't do it that much. The reason why anyone has thought that RTwP is good idea is because back in late 1990's RTS was the most popular genre on PC, but standard RT would make it hard to micro 6(or more) characters properly, at least in theory(some people practically don't use pause in IE games outside of heavier fights). I mean before BG the only RTwP cRPG of note was Darklands and everyone and his dog thought this game was a clusterfuck as far as combat was concerned.
BG and IE games in general were doing relatively well in time of decline of sales in the genre which made RTwP popular, but retrospectively everyone at this point kind of realises that their implementation of it wasn't particularly good. They've did realise what are the strengths of the system better than Obsidian did in Pillars, but it's a matter of adjustments rather than some gigantic change of principles. I haven't played Kangmaker yet, so not gonna talk about it.

What I think has happened since 2012 or so was that nu-XCOM made TB "cool" and so that kind of mental block and publishing house meme that was common for good 15 years before that, where mainstream scoffed at TB because it's boring was gone and the inherent advantages it had over RTwP could resurface again on a "fair ground".

 

[DalekFlay]

If I read this title 10 years ago I would have laughed my ass off, but Ismaul is right that Divinity has changed things. Along with the fading away of RTS games for whatever reason that's happening, maybe the Xcom reboot's success? These things come and go in waves though, I'm sure in another ten years some RTS or RTwP game will set the world on fire and suddenly we'll be asking if turn-based is dead.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

RTWP is a heretical bastardization of RTS and TB-RPG. Hence it's entire existence should be purified at the earliest opportunity.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

Darklands, Baldur's Gate and it's ilk existed in a time when RTS games were popular. Developers and players had a sense of how they worked. These days. they do not.

Exactly -- the same how the most successful games adopt their systems to an FPS/3rd person action format these days.

In terms of RTWP, I'd argue the bigger burden is on the developers. Bioware Held regular Warcraft 2 tournaments in their Offices back in the day -- and thus had a General idea of what worked better and what wouldn't when translating the tabletop over. Meanwhile, mainly influenced by tabletop experience, the recent wave of Nu-RTWP games try to cram their systems into a format that they think was Baldur's Gate. Which in turn in particular in more complex battles loses all the flow Bioware were aiming for and which is the strength of going real-time in the first place. (Either that or they damn wish they hadn't promised a BG successor on their Kickstarter, and rather had the freedom to go TB straight away).

 

[toro]

relevant for this topic

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

Doomed? If that thing finally becomes less popular then fuck yeah, good riddance.

Also, did you completely miss the new Pathfinder or what?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Honest question: Why isn't Mass Effect considered 'RTwP'? Exactly what is the criteria here?
Is it the ability to control multiple units, the isometric perspective, or something else?
Mass Effect(specifically, the first one) allows you to pause real-time combat to give your companions tactics, select targets, use abilities/items, etc.,

 

[JarlFrank]

RTWP is a heretical bastardization of RTS and TB-RPG. Hence it's entire existence should be purified at the earliest opportunity.

This.

The only RTwP systems I genuinely enjoy are those actually designed with real time in mind.

7.62 High Calibre has a great RTwP combat system.
I also love Total War battles, which are real time but you can pause and issue commands during the pause.

It only becomes shit when it tries to turn a turn based system into a real time system, creating some weird and awkward hybrid where you still have "rounds" even though it's real time, lolwut.

 

[RickOmbo]

I hate RTwP in top-down clicker games (IceWind Dale, Pillars of Eternity), but tactical shooters like The Bureau: XCOM Declassified work great with it.

 

[Tacgnol]

RTWP is a heretical bastardization of RTS and TB-RPG. Hence it's entire existence should be purified at the earliest opportunity.

I mind slightly less if it was a system designed to be RTWP from the start, but I really hate when they take a TB system and turn it RTWP.

Kingmaker is a good example. If Owlcat had made the game TB they could have copied the Paizo rules almost 1:1 and also copied most of the fights straight from the AP without any need for rebalancing or adding trash mobs everywhere.