Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
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The NCb model

PsychoFox

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I’ve been trying to come up with new and interesting ways to explain and describe games. I find traditional ways of describing games (ie. genres) increasingly insufficient – and also I am very bored. This time around I want to introduce the NCb model, which categorizes games based on the delivery style of their narratives and worlds.

In this model games are categorized in either ‘Novel’ or “Comic book” styles.

1. Novels games are realistic, logical (no matter how absurd the logic) and overall NOT SILLY. These are games like Planescape: Torment, the original Fallout, The Witcher series, or Kingdom Come: Deliverance. The worlds in this type of games operate in predictable, logical manners, with their elements always having proper explanations behind them. This is not to say that the game worlds are “like our own material world” but rather, while able to be completely fantastical, they are still governed by logical equations that make sense for those worlds. Characters in this type of game are almost never stereotypes or categorical. They are complex beings with complex motivations and agendas. Stories themselves are often serious, tackling mature themes and motifs. Many RPGs belong to this category.

2. Comic book style games in contrast are often illogical, silly, and cartoonish. The game worlds are unrealistic, naïve, and simplistic. Characters are often stereotype of certain themes and revolve around one or two main motifs. They often have very simple motives, like “always doing good” or being “evil for the sake of it”. There is usually not much explanation behind the world’s elements, and contradictions and exception to rules can be common. Examples of this type of game are the two first Tomb Raider games, the Freedom Force series, and recently Druidstone.

So what do you think?

Can you think of another category that complements this system?

Can you think of any games that don’t fall into either of these categories?

What category would place the following games in? Diablo (series), Fallout 2, Divinity: Original Sin (series), ECHO.
 
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Ha very true. TBH I'd be hard pressed to find a game where you don't play a role.
First thing that came to mind was Tetris, or any similar puzzle game where you don't seem to control an external character who is then playing the game (even though it's still you who is playing). Puyo Puyo Tetris is one where you select a character before playing either Puyo Puyo or Tetris (or both). Other than that, though, in original Tetris, for example, which role would you be playing? A block? Lol

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I do enjoy this method of classification, though. I'll try it for recent games I've been playing to see if it works.

Days Gone - Novel
Apex Legends - Comic book
Dauntless - Comic book
Yoshi's Crafted World - Comic book

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PsychoFox

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Ha very true. TBH I'd be hard pressed to find a game where you don't play a role.
First thing that came to mind was Tetris, or any similar puzzle game where you don't seem to control an external character who is then playing the game (even though it's still you who is playing). Puyo Puyo Tetris is one where you select a character before playing either Puyo Puyo or Tetris (or both). Other than that, though, in original Tetris, for example, which role would you be playing? A block? Lol

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I guess you are playing your own role as the tetris player xD
I think the playing a "role" is synonymous with playing a videogame, even if the you are playing as yourself. But i do agree that a game like that does not belong to any of the categories.

I do enjoy this method of classification, though. I'll try it for recent games I've been playing to see if it works.

Days Gone - Novel
Apex Legends - Comic book
Dauntless - Comic book
Yoshi's Crafted World - Comic book

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Nice! I agree with this :) I was thinking there might be games that straddle the line a bit (like SpellForce). It might not be a good idea to add a third category for the games that are on the fence, so to speak.
 

JarlFrank

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All games there days are RGP's anyways :troll:
Ha very true. TBH I'd be hard pressed to find a game where you don't play a role.

cover2.jpg
 
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I guess you are playing your own role as the tetris player xD
I think the playing a "role" is synonymous with playing a videogame, even if the you are playing as yourself
Following that logic, though, any game could potentially be an RPG, if we're assuming the "role" in "Role Playing Game" exists outside the game, not in-game. So chess, for example, would be an RPG... I disagree with this notion. I think the "role" part in "roleplaying game" means the role the player assumes in-game, via some sort of character, usuall. Granted that you always play some kind of role in a game, but RPGs were called RPGs because of a reason, they have their specific tropes and systems.



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PsychoFox

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I guess you are playing your own role as the tetris player xD
I think the playing a "role" is synonymous with playing a videogame, even if the you are playing as yourself
Following that logic, though, any game could potentially be an RPG, if we're assuming the "role" in "Role Playing Game" exists outside the game, not in-game. So chess, for example, would be an RPG... I disagree with this notion. I think the "role" part in "roleplaying game" means the role the player assumes in-game, via some sort of character, usuall. Granted that you always play some kind of role in a game, but RPGs were called RPGs because of a reason, they have their specific tropes and systems.



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Well I just don't see it that way :)

I don't think there are any specific tropes that define an RPG. An RPG can take any shape or form. For the most part, the one aspect that seems to convince people to call a game RPG is player-agency and choice in shaping the outcome of a scenario. By that logic chess is an RPG because your tactical choices make the outcome of the game. Another aspect that could potentially convince one to call a game an RPG is stat allocation. Well a game like The Sims has that. So does that make The Sims an RPG?

To me the term RPG is redundant because I am hard pressed to find a game where you don't assume a role, even if that role is of your own - as a player who moves pieces on a chessboard for example.
 

JarlFrank

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I guess you are playing your own role as the tetris player xD
I think the playing a "role" is synonymous with playing a videogame, even if the you are playing as yourself
Following that logic, though, any game could potentially be an RPG, if we're assuming the "role" in "Role Playing Game" exists outside the game, not in-game. So chess, for example, would be an RPG... I disagree with this notion. I think the "role" part in "roleplaying game" means the role the player assumes in-game, via some sort of character, usuall. Granted that you always play some kind of role in a game, but RPGs were called RPGs because of a reason, they have their specific tropes and systems.



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Well I just don't see it that way :)

I don't think there are any specific tropes that define an RPG. An RPG can take any shape or form. For the most part, the one aspect that seems to convince people to call a game RPG is player-agency and choice in shaping the outcome of a scenario. By that logic chess is an RPG because your tactical choices make the outcome of the game. Another aspect that could potentially convince one to call a game an RPG is stat allocation. Well a game like The Sims has that. So does that make The Sims an RPG?

To me the term RPG is redundant because I am hard pressed to find a game where you don't assume a role, even if that role is of your own - as a player who moves pieces on a chessboard for example.

This post is wrong on so many levels.

RPG = game where you play a character defined by his stats and abilities, as determined by the game's underlying system; the genre was originally born from tabletop wargames and developed into pen and paper RPGs through D&D and its derivatives. There are rules-heavy RPGs (D&D, GURPS, Aftermath! etc) and rules-light RPGs (Vampire the Masquerade etc), some focus on the combat and dungeon crawling while others focus on narrative and character interaction, but one thing they all have in common is that the player plays a character defined by certain abilities which are determined by the system.

In Doom you may "play the role" of Doomguy, and in Super Mario you may "play the role" of Mario, but they are not RPGs because they are not defined by the player creating and developing a character whose abilities are based on the player's choices.
In D&D, you create your character and choose his class: mage, fighter, cleric, thief etc. The abilities of your character are defined by that class.
In Fallout, you create your character and assign points to stats and skills, as well as pick perks on levelup that give you additional special abilities. Your character's abilities are defined by those choices.
In Morrowind, you create a character and select minor and major skills for that character. These skills improve as you use them. Your character's abilities are defined by those skills.

In Doom and Quake, you play a guy who always has the same speed, same health, deals the same amount of damage, etc. They are not RPGs because your character is not defined by the choices you make at character creation and during levelup.

"RPG" doesn't just mean "game where you play a role" but "game derived from D&D and other pen and paper RPGs where the player can create a character with different stats and skills".
 

PsychoFox

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"RPG" doesn't just mean "game where you play a role" but "game derived from D&D and other pen and paper RPGs where the player can create a character with different stats and skills".

Sure, i fully understand that is the conventional definition. It's just not one i find particularly useful personally. :)
 

Zarniwoop

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"RPG" doesn't just mean "game where you play a role" but "game derived from D&D and other pen and paper RPGs where the player can create a character with different stats and skills".

Sure, i fully understand that is the conventional definition. It's just not one i find particularly useful personally. :)

'sup Roguey

Nice new alt.
 

Unkillable Cat

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This 'model' screws over so many games from the 1980s in its current format.

You know, the ones that don't have a narrative presentation to begin with, let alone a game world to speak of.

Yar's Revenge is a shooter where you guide a craft on a single screen, slowly picking away at a force shield with your guns so that the enemy core will be temporarily vulnerable and you can call in an orbital laser strike against it.

That's it, that's the entire game. It doesn't even qualify for the "comic book" approach... on its own.

But what if I told you that there's a comic book out there that explains the backstory and goal of the game? Does that change the game's definition, even though it's from an external source?

And that's just one game that happens to have a decent external source for its 'lore' - there are countless others which do not.

This 'model' needs to go back to the autism board for a little while longer.
 

JarlFrank

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"RPG" doesn't just mean "game where you play a role" but "game derived from D&D and other pen and paper RPGs where the player can create a character with different stats and skills".

Sure, i fully understand that is the conventional definition. It's just not one i find particularly useful personally. :)

No, it's not the "conventional" definition. It's the real definition. It's what the word means.

If you change your definition, a lot of RPGs would no longer be considered RPGs. Wizardry 1 is an RPG by the traditional definition of the term.
If you now claim "RPG is a game where you play a role in a story and make choices as a character" suddenly Wizardry 1 is no longer an RPG.

Therefore your definition is wrong.
 

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