Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Josh Sawyer Q&A Thread

santino27

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 1, 2008
Messages
2,683
My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
but listen, there was no magical conspiracy or some unprecedented sinful act going on.

The only person citing a magical conspiracy is you, in trying to dismiss it. But hey, keep on keeping on.

Considering people also disliked stuff like xaurip and bunch fo other stuff, I am going to have to disagree on that.

And yet the example ALWAYS cited is fampyr. I'm sure that's just coincidental. ;)

It's definitely not an issue (or game for that matter) worth spending a lot of time on though. I can agree with that. Given the lack of quoting, I didn't even realize there'd been a reply to my post two weeks ago.
 

Xeon

Augur
Joined
Apr 9, 2013
Messages
1,858
Was there a reason they changed the names for something else? I think someone said Beholders belong to DnD or something, I am not sure its something that extreme since there are tons of games and movies with Vampires and whatever.

Don't know about Kobolds.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
santino27 Fair enough. I don't think it's unreasonable to think the deluge of 'new' terms was a bit ridiculous, I've just seen so many Codexers memefy themselves going on and on about it as if it was a great sin.

The real solution would have been not to have "fake kobolds with a twist" in the first place and just do something different. I understand how you can't really get rid of all the tropes and create something new for everything, but I think part of this was a misguided effort to try and keep everything familiar enough while still giving it a subversive twist. As it turns out, Arcanum's gnomes just being gnomes but showing up with a double blazer & cigar seemed to work better.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,425
history, names of shit, trying to make lore consistent etc. It all crap nobody gives a fuck about. Reason why old pc games like icewind dale and fallout were popular cause they were straight about the gameplay and focus of this stuff was minuscule. Your audience is GAMERS first people that read shitty fantasy/scifi novels second.
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,031
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Reason why old pc games like icewind dale and fallout were popular cause they were straight about the gameplay and focus of this stuff was minuscule.
Considering how many people dislike Fallout 2 for messing with the consistency of the setting, this is kind of a funny comment. Could just be another loud Codex minority, of course. :M
 
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Oct 8, 2018
Messages
1,121


FAls8lI.png
FAls8lI.png
FAls8lI.png
 

Nutria

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
2,252
Location
한양
Strap Yourselves In
I got a notebook where I list on one side his achievements versus everything he's done wrong. On one side I got a lot of tattoos and trips to Portland to make European bikes (which he apparently couldn't do on this trips to Poland?) and on the other side I just have a bunch of words about Darklands. It kind of makes a person impatient after awhile.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,790
"Why is this person developing RPGs and not first person shooters?" is the question Sawyer's list poses.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
4,118
Location
Chicago, IL, Kwa
Meh. I’ve probably spent more time playing Counter Strike and Dota than any other games, but I wouldn’t say I have a strong love (or even particular competence) for either. They just happen to be the games that my childhood friends wanted to play as a means of keeping contact (back when we all had the free time to play multiplayer games).
 

Tom Selleck

Arcane
Joined
May 6, 2013
Messages
1,206
I hate Josh but also love him. Like he's the kind of dude I'd wanna punch a lot, but also the kind of dude I wanna be. Like when gays are secret gays and become pastors and tell everyone gays are bad but make out with dudes in bathrooms.
 

Frozen

Arcane
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
8,325
Im surprised he didn't buy Yugo.
Its a dream car for HC hipster like him.

 

Quillon

Arcane
Joined
Dec 15, 2016
Messages
5,226
Back in 2015 I complained on Obs forums saying they played it too safe with PoE1 and result were a bland game because of that, then they went ahead and doubled down on it, it seems :P The more Josh talks about it the more it seems they have a too guided way of developing games now, leaving little room for creativity.
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
8,059
The other reason to create something new? The big metaphysical mystery of the Pillars setting has already been solved. I was just reading an author explain that good worldbuilding details are like Chekhov’s gun. You leave them lying around and then later on there’s some payoff when they go bang. With Pillars, many of those guns have already been fired. And they’re the worst possible ones to shoot. I don’t want to know about the origin of the gods or how soul power makes magic work. Explaining these things only detracts from the setting by removing the mysterious and fantastical elements. It’s disenchanted in the most literal sense of the term.

I don't think Sawyer is a right fit for fantasy for this reason.

Even FONV had an air of dry historical narrative to it that worked its way even into Ron Perlman's narration setting up the history of the fight over Hoover Dam.

In that game it worked because of how Sci-Fi and well established the world of Fallout is, but thinking about this, I think he'd be too dry introducing his won historical game. Were I him I'd really turn an eye to the atmosphere Darklands evoked and to find people that could help drown out, or reframe his way of approaching history.

...but the Elder Scrolls is actually much worse about its elves:



And for the humans you have terms like Atmorans and Yokudans for the lore nerds. I don't think Elder Scrolls and PoE are all that different in this respect tbh

TES began as generic from a name/history stand point and then added layers, ironically given the aura of depth to the setting the gameplay lacks where colloquial names for groups exist side by side the stranger, more specific ones much in the way there are common and scientific animal names.

This I think touches on what I said above, where Sawyer's reaction is to give the dry details instead of finding ways to suspend them in a colloquial medium that would allow people to avoid the funny names for everything. To use the before example in an analogy, Sawyer would name a fish Oncorhynchus mykiss and fail to give it a common name like Rainbow Trout.

He could have also gone the route of simplifying things in the way Celtic languages are done with English suited exonyms. Something like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh..._English_names_appear_substantially_different is badly needed in PoE.

Oh come on. Fantasy has pilfered from etymology, foreign languages, old mythological names, etc. for its entire history, bringing in plenty of mouthful syllables into common usage. It's not some obscure bullshit deep dive that was totally different from the norm. If Duc or the faux-Italian is such a sin, then surely you blew your skull off at Kara-Tur, which literally contains nations like Koryo (the actual name for a 500-year Korean dynasty that was bastardised by Westerners into "Korea")?

It's such a stupid thing to get worked up over, I don't think anyone would have minded Fampyrs if they were in Arcanum. There's a debate to be had about whether Pillars' effort to blend historical inspiration & the original setting ended up getting into a weird uncanny valley, and there's certainly well worn criticisms about loredumping and all, but listen, there was no magical conspiracy or some unprecedented sinful act going on.

Who handled the names in Arcanum?

It's one newly introduced setting that handled character and location names very well, especially for the fabled villains of the past. Arronax, Kerghen, Gorgoth, Kraka-Tur. All have an element borrowed from generic fantasy or history, yet are changed enough to be new enough not to feel derivative.
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom