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Incline Battle Brothers + Beasts & Exploration, Warriors of the North and Blazing Deserts DLC Thread

Payd Shell

Arcane
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
831
You're wrong, dps is only for easy fights and a couple of enemies like Unhold.

Most of the fights if played on an adequate difficulty are about position, finding the right spot to make your stand, move your foes around so you can bash them appropriately.
Still, name a game where you have to kill your foes where dps isn't the universal solution ?
Actually unholds are one of the few fights where positioning matters. As well as nachos (gotta control those corpses), necrosavants (use their AI against them by surrounding vulnerable bros with your frontliners) and schrats (avoid the 3 tile attack). When it comes to raiders - you out-archer them and keep your formation. Later in the game enemies will almost always outnumber you and if they have the ranged advantage are content with camping where they spawned. Orcs will eventually mess up your formation with warriors unless you can keep up indom every round which you can't unless you use the adrenaline + recovery strategy. Goblins are the same as raiders, just more dangerous because their archers will puncture your guys eventually if you catch up with them, mowing them down with arrows is the smart solution and later on the only one that's viable considering shamans will root you in place anyways. Noble armies are raiders on steroids. An enjoyable fight if you aren't heavily outnumbered, but if you are, your best bet is to snipe their backline with archers. They use crossbows so their range is worse than bows, making them easy picking especially because they're mostly lightly armored, the same with billmen. Ancient undead you overwhelm with damage because you'll lose a battle of attrition - they don't have morale and fatigue, you do. So your best bet is to destroy as many of them as fast as you can before their frontline has time to put up a shieldwall every round. If you break their shields, you give their backline enough time to decimate your frontline, ancient undead have also fearsome, so you want to avoid as many hits as possible. Pikes have a to-hit bonus, so it's not feasible to defend against them for multiple rounds.

Barbarians are the only faction that seems to be designed to screw the player no matter what you do. Chosen are tanky enough that you can't thin their numbers when they advance, their throwing weapons hurt and their maces and hammers are deadly especially with their special rotate ability which they use to focus fire one of your guys. They also have crippling strikes and executioner, paired with their high armor ignoring weapons, one hit means you'll get an injury and the next almost always means one of your bros is dead. Then you have beastmasters with their infinite range to control the armored unholds, which is a really stupid design decision because the obvious choice would be to either kill them with archers first or use a flanker or two with dogs to tie them down, but this isn't possible because they stay out of archer range and by the time one of your guys reaches them the unholds are tied up in melee with your guys anyways. Flanking is impossible once you start getting heavily outnumbered.
 

Sarissofoi

Arbiter
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
761
I agree with this silly mushroom.
Offense>defense. That is why Barbarians are more dangerous than Orcs as orc warriors often shield-wall or have one handed weapons when Barbarian Chosen will just go on full smashing spree.
Mushroom is right - at last my experience tell me so and you know that I have it plenty.
I will add that balancing enemies around having either Adrenaline or Indomitable really screw player that try less than optimal builds.

I experienced with some company builds and having like 6+ high tier archers make Brigands, Goblins and Noble Troops a easy prey. I used shield tanks to protect them but to be honest having Battleforged AoE twohanders would probably work even better in some cases.
2handers fielded en mass deal with most of enemy easily - sure having 1 or 2 tanks help but their role is to just tie enemy forces so you can slaughter fast their not tied units. But to be honest against most equal enemies they are waste - only useful when you just need throw a guy as a bait when enemy have real numerical advantages.
Fielding Late more than token 1hand&shield units don't work. Not enough Dmg, not enough Fat, lucky hit that can you fuck up increase in longer fights. You cannot crush enemy morale fast enough or kill them fast enough too. Sure it helps when fighting monsters but only as specialized support unit.
 
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tindrli

Arcane
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
4,465
Location
Dragodol
Yes i noticed by day 130 or so all my bros have 2H weapons. 1 hammer 1 mace 2 big swords one falil and rest are axes and then 2 bros with axe and shield. And for some reason i think that more hammers are essential at least in heavy armored fights.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
Actually unholds are one of the few fights where positioning matters. As well as nachos (gotta control those corpses), necrosavants (use their AI against them by surrounding vulnerable bros with your frontliners) and schrats (avoid the 3 tile attack). When it comes to raiders - you out-archer them and keep your formation. Later in the game enemies will almost always outnumber you and if they have the ranged advantage are content with camping where they spawned. Orcs will eventually mess up your formation with warriors unless you can keep up indom every round which you can't unless you use the adrenaline + recovery strategy. Goblins are the same as raiders, just more dangerous because their archers will puncture your guys eventually if you catch up with them, mowing them down with arrows is the smart solution and later on the only one that's viable considering shamans will root you in place anyways. Noble armies are raiders on steroids. An enjoyable fight if you aren't heavily outnumbered, but if you are, your best bet is to snipe their backline with archers. They use crossbows so their range is worse than bows, making them easy picking especially because they're mostly lightly armored, the same with billmen. Ancient undead you overwhelm with damage because you'll lose a battle of attrition - they don't have morale and fatigue, you do. So your best bet is to destroy as many of them as fast as you can before their frontline has time to put up a shieldwall every round. If you break their shields, you give their backline enough time to decimate your frontline, ancient undead have also fearsome, so you want to avoid as many hits as possible. Pikes have a to-hit bonus, so it's not feasible to defend against them for multiple rounds.

I'm not saying BB is the quintessence of tactical combat, it's not, it's good but i've played better, even recently, without naming the obvious ones with Warbanners, truly excellent or the upcoming Urtuk.

I also have to disagree on your strategies, people say you have to march on corpses against Nachos, never felt the necessity to do so, if they want to eat corpses, good, that's just more fun.
With decent archers and 2 handlers, they're never a problem.

As for Unhold, your comment is retarded, they move you around as they please so position doesn't matter as long as you're prepared to strike hard when they get in range and when there is too many of them, just use bait so split the group, murdered 13 armored unhold with 12 lvl 11 mercs once, took forever though, the only thing that matters is to have the swap perk on most of your guys, this and dps.

Position matters more against high level undead, goblins, mercs and companies.

As for the chosen, they're tough alright, never was a problem as long as there is not too many of them, more than 5-6 is a pain and requires some thinking but they die just like everything else.
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
By the way, i recruited the Barbarian King.

Epic battle mess against the undead ...

Barbarian-King.png
 

Murk

Arcane
Joined
Jan 17, 2008
Messages
13,459
I just go in and kill them before they kill me. Also, disarm is very strong against them -- especially if you disarm -> adrenaline -> disarm another on one character.

Anyway, the cultists have survived their 2nd crisis... and still no goddamn prophet (but like 6 of my dudes are level 5 in the cult, which is pretty dope as far as buffs up the ass go -- the mini iron lung effect is amazing, and the big HP boost makes a nimble build very easy to do). It seems that Davkul has abandoned me, and in doing so has caused my faith to deplete.

Next up, duelist beast slayers who also use ranged weapons. Trying some weird hybrid builds with throwing spears + duelist 1handers. Was tempted to try the poachers run, since faster movement seems like a nice QOL boost, but I don't want to play as archers. In general I find archers less good now, and am finding as much or more success just fielding flankers to take out enemy archers.
 

tindrli

Arcane
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
4,465
Location
Dragodol
bros, for academic purpuses what do you think? is it worth it?
oPFuLiI.png


jSf80r6.png


and another question, what are those giant skull&bones for?
 

Nahel

Arcane
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
862
Nah he is weak. Decent resolve crushed by a bad trait. Decent but not spectacular initiative....Only his melee attack is ok. He is overpriced for a swordmaster
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Yeah, he's a mediocre guy & really the only plus is his starting matk and the level 5. I'd fish around for a level ~3 hire that's cheaper, has better traits and/or better FAT/MDEF.

The bone plating upgrade is cool, I like using it on nimbledudes to cancel out the first time RNG fails them.
 

tindrli

Arcane
Joined
Jan 5, 2011
Messages
4,465
Location
Dragodol
ok i didn't thought that i would get suggestions that fast. anyway i recruited him.
first battle 6 necroservants. he killed one and manage to wound 2 others.
Second fight. bunch of bandit raiders. second turn he received a bolt between the eyes. natural selection. i wont reload
Adblxrs.png


i just defeated 26 zombies 4 of them ghosts and i got not one but two legendary
and it was more less in the middle of the game map

ta1awD7.png

jrZPWxO.png
 
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vazha

Arcane
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
2,063
Gentlemen, got a swordmaster with following stats (I cannot into uploading pics for some reason): MAtk 72 (2stars), mdef 19 (1 star), rdef 4 (1star), drunk and fearless (65 resolve), 48 hp (kinda not that bad for a swordmaster), 82 naked fatique and 93 naked initiative. Question is, what to do with him? I ve never built duelists before, my strategy & tactics all evolve around various twohanders bashin away, but something tells me he'd do pretty well at being a dodge/nimble fancy swordsmanship. So how to make a duelist fencer out of this guy? (or mayhaps not fencer, what weapon would be optimal?) What perks to take apart the obvious ones?
 

Covenant

Savant
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
343
Gentlemen, got a swordmaster with following stats (I cannot into uploading pics for some reason): MAtk 72 (2stars), mdef 19 (1 star), rdef 4 (1star), drunk and fearless (65 resolve), 48 hp (kinda not that bad for a swordmaster), 82 naked fatique and 93 naked initiative. Question is, what to do with him? I ve never built duelists before, my strategy & tactics all evolve around various twohanders bashin away, but something tells me he'd do pretty well at being a dodge/nimble fancy swordsmanship. So how to make a duelist fencer out of this guy? (or mayhaps not fencer, what weapon would be optimal?) What perks to take apart the obvious ones?

Fatigue's far too low to stick him in armour, and the HP's too low to rely on Nimble alone, so Nine Lives seems a sensible pick to safeguard your investment. His Initiative is pretty low for a Dodge build, I'd say, but it's not insurmountable. If you're making him a duelist, I'd go maces myself - with the high base damage (and Drunk) you've got a good chance of causing injuries, even just through the armor-ignoring part of your damage, and blunt weapon injuries are better than the other kinds.

He's obviously vulnerable to archers, so you've got to mitigate that some way, whether it's never using him in battles vs goblins/humans, or giving him a kite shield and Quick Hands so he can switch it in and out (is that still a thing, or did they nerf that?), or just pumping up his RDef a little and maybe giving him Anticipation.

Obviously, you'll want to pump up MAtk, MDef, and then split between RDef, HP, and Initiative (if you went Dodge) depending on what you get the highest rolls for. His Fat is low, but you get more mileage out of Recover the higher your max Fat is, so it's tough... you might be best giving him Lone Wolf and using him as an assassin - sending him round the back of the enemy force to get vulnerable targets like Necromancers. He'll die sooner or later doing this though, whether to a Brigand Marksman with a crossbow or simply to a bad roll.

An alternative build would be to give him Swords Mastery and Shield Expert, and have him do nothing but sit in the middle of your front line and Riposte all day. His base MDef is very high, but you've only got one star in it, so it relies on some luck with your rolls. You'd definitely need to take Underdog if you're going that route, though I end up taking it on most of my guys anyway. This could work well with Fearsome and Crippling Strikes - he wouldn't be killing the enemy as quickly, and he'd be sub-optimal vs the Ancient Dead, but against Noble armies, Orcs, and various beasts he'd do a great job of wrecking their morale. Fortified Mind might be a good perk for this build, too - maximise your chances of keeping him at Confident morale, and thereby lowering his chances of getting hit.

By the way, you didn't specify, but those stats are his level 1 stats, right?
 

vazha

Arcane
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
2,063
Stats are lvl 1, yes, though he comes at lvl 5 and most of those rolls arent great let me tell you. Always 2 mdef for example. Mace duelist / axe duelist ( bonus damage to head + drunk damage + headhunter would give an interesting synergy) sounds viable but I was rather fond of this idea of making him into a fencer. On the other hand I could let go all this duelist thing, pump his mdef, matk and fatique and give him a two-handed mace or an axe for ultimate beast slaying mode. Thing is I already have plenty of bros like that. Would 90 hp (with colossus), 80 ish fatique (I have rather nice famed light armor/helmet set) and around 100 ini still not enough for a fencer?
p.s. Do I need adrenaline?
 

Covenant

Savant
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
343
Can't go two-handed weapons with duelist, and he doesn't really have the fatigue for it (without sacrificing something else you'll need) unless you're okay with keeping him on the back row. Which is viable - he could be pretty impressive sitting in the back with a named Longaxe, though it'd be a bit of a waste of his decent MDef.

You'll struggle to get much more than the stats you mentioned. 90 HP with Colossus is 72 HP without. He's 48 at the moment, with no stars in HP. No stars = 2-4 per level up, we'll assume 3 average. So assuming you pump MAtk and MDef every time (which you should be doing), you're spending 8 of your level-ups on HP. That might just leave you enough to get 100 naked initiative, and maybe one level-up in fatigue. I'll assume your famed light armour/helmet set is around 15 fatigue, as you mentioned wanting to use Nimble. Add on your weapon and a net in your bag or a bandage or something and you're at 20, leaving you with just over 60 max fatigue to play with in a battle (and 80 Init as a bonus to your Lunge damage, which on average is a little under 40). That's low for any prolonged engagement.

I don't think you'd have the perk slots for Adrenaline. I'm assuming you'll be using all or most of the following: Colossus, Recovery, Nimble, Swords Mastery, Underdog, Duelist, Killing Frenzy. That leaves you two perks, and there are things that will be higher priority than Adrenaline. Are you going to go for Dodge? Steel Brow? Berserk? Pathfinder? Relentless? Without the latter, your Initiative probably won't be making a big impact on your damage because your Fatigue will keep eating it up. A Lunge with Swords Mastery costs 19 Fatigue. By the time you're doing your second Lunge of the battle, you're likely to be getting under 30 bonus damage from your Initiative. It's just too low to be worth all the downsides of it (terrible vs armour, low survivability).

Your guy just doesn't have the stats to be a super fencer. You don't have the Initiative to be getting super Lunges, and you don't have the MDef (or Dodge-derived MDef through Initiative) to survive indefinitely. And of course, he'll be a magnet for arrows, which 90 HP Nimble and your famed armor will only protect him from for so long.

From everything I've heard, Fencing only really shines when you get a famed Fencing Sword. My advice would be to shelve the fencing dream till you get one - if you're really keen on the idea, start hiring more thieves, they often have great initiative and can do pretty well on their other stats - and take advantage of your Swordsmaster's best traits, which would be his high MAtk, good resolve, decent MDef and that Drunk trait. Mace duelist or Axe duelist (Headhunter wouldn't be a terrible choice here as you say, though it's a shame he's not a juggler/killer on the run) on your front lines would probably be the best bet, just make sure you keep him next to a couple of bros who can rotate him to safety if his MDef fails him, or one who has Taunt.
 

hivemind

Cipher
Patron
Pretty Princess
Joined
Feb 6, 2019
Messages
2,386
bros, for academic purpuses what do you think?
sell the goose and buy trade goods instead

like FUCK, it generates fuckall money if you let it just sit while you can profit on the money you get from selling it exponentially through investment

You live with your regrets, until they accumulate and crush you. You are playing correctly, my friend
e c o n o m i c
a t t r i t i o n
s i m u l a t o r
 

vazha

Arcane
Joined
Aug 24, 2013
Messages
2,063
Can't go two-handed weapons with duelist, and he doesn't really have the fatigue for it (without sacrificing something else you'll need) unless you're okay with keeping him on the back row. Which is viable - he could be pretty impressive sitting in the back with a named Longaxe, though it'd be a bit of a waste of his decent MDef.

You'll struggle to get much more than the stats you mentioned. 90 HP with Colossus is 72 HP without. He's 48 at the moment, with no stars in HP. No stars = 2-4 per level up, we'll assume 3 average. So assuming you pump MAtk and MDef every time (which you should be doing), you're spending 8 of your level-ups on HP. That might just leave you enough to get 100 naked initiative, and maybe one level-up in fatigue. I'll assume your famed light armour/helmet set is around 15 fatigue, as you mentioned wanting to use Nimble. Add on your weapon and a net in your bag or a bandage or something and you're at 20, leaving you with just over 60 max fatigue to play with in a battle (and 80 Init as a bonus to your Lunge damage, which on average is a little under 40). That's low for any prolonged engagement.

I don't think you'd have the perk slots for Adrenaline. I'm assuming you'll be using all or most of the following: Colossus, Recovery, Nimble, Swords Mastery, Underdog, Duelist, Killing Frenzy. That leaves you two perks, and there are things that will be higher priority than Adrenaline. Are you going to go for Dodge? Steel Brow? Berserk? Pathfinder? Relentless? Without the latter, your Initiative probably won't be making a big impact on your damage because your Fatigue will keep eating it up. A Lunge with Swords Mastery costs 19 Fatigue. By the time you're doing your second Lunge of the battle, you're likely to be getting under 30 bonus damage from your Initiative. It's just too low to be worth all the downsides of it (terrible vs armour, low survivability).

Your guy just doesn't have the stats to be a super fencer. You don't have the Initiative to be getting super Lunges, and you don't have the MDef (or Dodge-derived MDef through Initiative) to survive indefinitely. And of course, he'll be a magnet for arrows, which 90 HP Nimble and your famed armor will only protect him from for so long.

From everything I've heard, Fencing only really shines when you get a famed Fencing Sword. My advice would be to shelve the fencing dream till you get one - if you're really keen on the idea, start hiring more thieves, they often have great initiative and can do pretty well on their other stats - and take advantage of your Swordsmaster's best traits, which would be his high MAtk, good resolve, decent MDef and that Drunk trait. Mace duelist or Axe duelist (Headhunter wouldn't be a terrible choice here as you say, though it's a shame he's not a juggler/killer on the run) on your front lines would probably be the best bet, just make sure you keep him next to a couple of bros who can rotate him to safety if his MDef fails him, or one who has Taunt.
Agree with most of your argument but one - he can go two-handed, rather easily in fact. Two handed mace is one the least fatigue-demanding weapon in the game and unless he gets to berserk (unlikely on the first turn), he'll be spending just 15 fatique on it, while most of the one handed items would cost you at least 20 fatique for two strikes with far more diminishing return than one hit (daze, armor, possible injury) with a two handed mace would. with nimble & 200 ish head & body armor he'd end up somewhere 50-55 fatique - just about viable for both 2 handed mace and an axe (got a famed one with increased damage, might just give him that for one-shot duties), sitting just between a flank hammer and rotate/taunt flank, supported by warscythe backline. So in all likelihood he will end up being my auxilary two hander against undeads & chosen and basically everyone else I'd not have any use fielding an archer against. Case solved, it seems. Search for fencer continues, will look into thieves more, somewhat disregarded them up to this point due to being average in pretty much everything bar initiative and having no juicy events
 

Covenant

Savant
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
343
Yeah, that'd work quite well - your main difficulties are going to be low max Fatigue (for my part, I don't feel comfortable with less than 60 going into a fight) and his vulnerability to ranged attack, but that's not so bad against certain armies. Should be great against the Ancient Dead at the very least.

Let us know what ends up happening with him.
 

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