Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[DalekFlay]

This is the Codex. Are you new?

You're the one who's new, Mr. 2019. Yes the Codex swims in a pit of negativity, but usually it's based on something... anything... or at least it used to be. Actual critical takedowns of shitty game mechanics and decisions. That's what I respect, not edge-lord whining that everything sucks without a reason or any perspective.

 

[The Bishop]

And they think it's generating hype not to tell those 3 types of fans what the game is?

Maybe they don't know that themselves yet. They mentioned a lot of systemic interactions, doing things that nobody did before, playing like real P&P, so I'm guessing they're trying to make a game that allows you to mess everything up, and then also get a systemic reaction from the game world. This would be very close to what Swen described as his dream RPG a few years ago (at least I think he did, been a long time). If that's indeed the case, then they're in uncharted lands of game design and probably don't know where they're going to end up much better than we do. Let's just hope they don't end up the same place Bioware did with Anthem, i.e. nowhere.

 

[smaug]

This is the Codex. Are you new?

You're the one who's new, Mr. 2019. Yes the Codex swims in a pit of negativity, but usually it's based on something... anything... or at least it used to be. Actual critical takedowns of shitty game mechanics and decisions. That's what I respect, not edge-lord whining that everything sucks without a reason or any perspective.

You should go read older threads you would learn a lot. Like Chippy said earlier than behavior is strange compared to D:OS. It’s reasomable to assume it’s shit.

TL;DR Everything is shit. Until gameplay footage.

 

[kalganoat]

I bet the gameplay is like Dragon's Dogma.

 

[Mr. Hiver]

Its not reasonable to assume its shit. And there is very few of such assumptions around.
Its just that emotional addicts to "feel good" vibes like DalekFlay cant accept anything that isnt supporting their addiction except as its direct opposite. So you always get those posters bitching about anything that is in any way not positive or at least not completely neutral as if its complete insane negativity.

Then there is always a few dumbasses and newfags who do really shit all over everything like luj1 and smaug but they are barely coherent.
And that triggers the feel good addicts so they start hallucinating everyone are like that and btching as if thats true.
Just extremes, bouncing off each other.

Maybe they don't know that themselves yet. They mentioned a lot of systemic interactions, doing things that nobody did before, playing like real P&P, so I'm guessing they're trying to make a game that allows you to mess everything up, and then also get a systemic reaction from the game world. This would be very close to what Swen described as his dream RPG a few years ago (at least I think he did, been a long time). If that's indeed the case, then they're in uncharted lands of game design and probably don't know where they're going to end up much better than we do. Let's just hope they don't end up the same place Bioware did with Anthem, i.e. nowhere.

Swen clarified that this game is a significant step towards being able to make that ultimate dream RPG, which will probably try to have too many things at once and fail at being so awesome. But it isnt that.

Seeing how they developed this game for two years already the basic features like style of combat and PoV should be decided by now.
Any changes of these basic foundations later in development would force them to rebuild large majority of the game all over again almost from the scratch. Which would cost a fucktonne more and increase chances of company collapsing if the game doesnt sell enough.

 

[Lutte]

As for pleasing existing fans, I'm pretty sure the majority of those millions of people that bought D:OS 2 are not hardcore combatfags. They wanted a fun coop fantasy romp, and that's what they're going to get this time around too.

A quick look at any "what game should I play next" in a divinity convo thread reveals the sort of player that likes DOS in general.
Some emphasize the TB side of DOS for being good but then you look at other games they loved and praise and..
https://www.reddit.com/r/DivinityOriginalSin/comments/ag5fr5/games_like_divinity_original_sin/
>I’ve always enjoyed playing RPGs, but there were many that I ended up just abandoning and losing interest with. The Witcher 3 was the only one I beat to completion.
>I was a fan of diablo 2 as a kid

>Dragon Age: Origins. It's older so probably fairly cheap. I don't know anyone who likes DOS2 that didn't also thoroughly enjoy DAO.

>DAO was previously my favorite game of all time, it's been passed up since then and Divinity is in the running for number one but I do love that original dragon age.

Some emphasize TB out of sheer inability to cope with something that requires having a pulse, rather than monocled arguments about systems and challenges :

>I like everything about the Dragon Age games except the combat. I abhor the real time that is basically turn based because you have to pause to be tactical, but its a huge pain
>. It feels like turn-based combat forced in realtime, making the player responsible for keeping track of timing and turns. It's just overly complicated and so much work just to keep things going,

The TB lovers keep mentioning a very strong, strong hard on for Witcher 3 still

>While XCOM:EU and XCOM2 are the best games I’ve played in the last decade or so (with the possible exception of The Witcher 3)

And then a like for highly mediocre TB games

>X-COM will hook you. Less RPG but sci-fi and turn based combat similar to Divinity
>Shadowrun is a cyberpunk RPG
>Wasteland 2 is similar to the old fallout games

Praise for KOTOR
>A little graphically dated, but excellent RPG and story is Star Wars: Knights of The Old Republic (KOTOR), even if you don't generally like the Star Wars universe.

>Kotor.... i will give anything for kotor 3 ...

Some more lulz

>A lot of great suggestion here already. I want to add Wasteland 2 to the mix. Similar game, just with a modern setting. Post apocalypse, no magic, with firearms, turn based squad fight tactical game. Great writing.

>Tyranny is excellent.

Overall and considering the BG franchise is not known for its TB, the most butthurt Larian would get is a vocal minority, particularly if they slamdunk with dialogue and cinematic cutscene heavy action romp ala Witcher 3, but AI party ala Mass Effect.

Another recent thread, this time with a focus on the COOP side of the fanbase
https://www.reddit.com/r/DivinityOr...r_games_to_divinity_original_sin_2_4_players/

>Baldur's gate series are pretty solid. Up to 6 players can play.

>If you're OK with less-than-modern graphics and not strictly turn-based combat, Neverwinter Nights may also be something to look into (specifically, Beamdog's Enhanced Edition for ease of online multiplayer).

Some idiots couldn't read and recommended single player games

>Pillars of Eternity 1 and 2

>Tyranny, Pillars of Eternity 2, Xcom 2 (less story)

>If you're on PC then Baldur's gate 1 and 2 and Icewind Dale are iconic games that basically created the genre. If on console then either Divinity: Original Sin 1, Pillars of Eternity or maybe Dragon Age Origins.

Yeaaaaah, I don't think people really care that much outside of a minority that may go whine on the BG3 steam forums (which is the sole purpose of those forums, people only go there to whine about bugs and grips)

 

[Dodo1610]

I bet the gameplay is like Dragon's Dogma.

I hoped the Dragon Age games would go the Dragon's Dogma route eventually but I have no idea how this is going to work with DND system.

 

[Sentinel]

As evidenced by KotOR, D&D and action combat just don't go together well at all. It's both a clusterfuck and a snoozefest where you're watching your character play animations while you issue a command every 5 seconds maybe and see numbers pop up.

 

[smaug]

Its not reasonable to assume its shit. And there is very few of such assumptions around.
Its just that emotional addicts to "feel good" vibes like DalekFlay cant accept anything that isnt supporting their addiction except as its direct opposite. So you always get those posters bitching about anything that is in any way not positive or at least not completely neutral as if its complete insane negativity.

Then there is always a few dumbasses and newfags who do really shit all over everything like luj1 and smaug but they are barely coherent.
And that triggers the feel good addicts so they start hallucinating everyone are like that and btching as if thats true.
Just extremes, bouncing off each other.

Maybe they don't know that themselves yet. They mentioned a lot of systemic interactions, doing things that nobody did before, playing like real P&P, so I'm guessing they're trying to make a game that allows you to mess everything up, and then also get a systemic reaction from the game world. This would be very close to what Swen described as his dream RPG a few years ago (at least I think he did, been a long time). If that's indeed the case, then they're in uncharted lands of game design and probably don't know where they're going to end up much better than we do. Let's just hope they don't end up the same place Bioware did with Anthem, i.e. nowhere.

Swen clarified that this game is a significant step towards being able to make that ultimate dream RPG, which will probably try to have too many things at once and fail at being so awesome. But it isnt that.

Seeing how they developed this game for two years already the basic features like style of combat and PoV should be decided by now.
Any changes of these basic foundations later in development would force them to rebuild large majority of the game all over again almost from the scratch. Which would cost a fucktonne more and increase chances of company collapsing if the game doesnt sell enough.

I’ve shit on Mehir Secret of Forest or whatever it was called for having a bad presentation, did not even play the game. And I’m not convinced about Larian. That’s 2 games I’ve been negative about. Over exaggerating much. Plus BG3 could be good, but until gameplay shows, I’m taking the negative side.

 

[The Bishop]

Seeing how they developed this game for two years already the basic features like style of combat and PoV should be decided by now.

Simple stuff like PoV is decided, yes, but then again they already commented on this, saying it's "not isometric", so there's that. Other things though, even if they know what direction they want to go, can end up playing drastically different depending on how that systemic interaction stuff pans out. Showing something now and then going with something completely different on release isn't going to paint them in the best light. They also probably don't want to lock themselves on some features by promising them too early. So yeah, it's hard to say, but saying nothing is probably not the worst course of action for them right now.

 

[Sentinel]

Seeing how they developed this game for two years already the basic features like style of combat and PoV should be decided by now.

Simple stuff like PoV is decided, yes, but then again they already commented on this, saying it's "not isometric", so there's that. Other things though, even if they know what direction they want to go, can end up playing drastically different depending on how that systemic interaction stuff pans out. Showing something now and then going with something completely different on release isn't going to paint them in the best light. They also probably don't want to lock themselves on some features by promising them too early. So yeah, it's hard to say, but saying nothing is probably not the worst course of action for them right now.

Source?

 

[Mr. Hiver]

Over exaggerating much. Plus BG3 could be good, but until gameplay shows, I’m taking the negative side.

As i said, barely coherent. And its not me over exaggerating but "feel good" posters like Dalekflay.

Anyway;

DoS games greatest achievement that attracted all those new players is not just the TB combat, but that they evolved and enhanced TB combat.

There was something new about it. It looked dense with options and it felt fresh and looked great visually.
All the positive feedback accumulated and then spilled over into DoS2, which immediately started streamlining - reducing the mechanics while adding to the "story", VO and all that. It worked but i dont think a third game made with those same mechanics would sell as well.

If they wanted to go for TB "isometric" for BG3, they could have easily used a fusion of DnD rules with best most memorable features of DoS games to create that specific sense of rich dense novelty and evolution of combat mechanics.
With maybe an open world approach, even better visuals and coop stuff, they would most probably have a hit again. Nothing risky or difficult to figure out there.
But it may be that selling 2 or 3 million (maybe 5) just isnt enough anymore.

but then again they already commented on this, saying it's "not isometric"

Citation needed.

And dont bullshit about "features" as if i didnt specifically say which ones.
Type of combat must be decided early since everything else is dependent on it. You cant build a game like this without there being a specific type of combat.

And why would they promise one then change later?
Didnt i just say that would - obviously - increase the costs of whole development in time and money so much the company could crumble? Which happened many times and we all know thats definitely not something to do.

 

[smaug]

Over exaggerating much. Plus BG3 could be good, but until gameplay shows, I’m taking the negative side.

As i said, barely coherent. And its not me over exaggerating but "feel good" posters like Dalekflay.

Anyway;

DoS games greatest achievement that attracted all those new players is not just the TB combat, but that they evolved and enhanced TB combat.

There was something new about it. It looked dense with options and it felt fresh and looked great visually.
All the positive feedback accumulated and then spilled over into DoS2, which immediately started streamlining - reducing the mechanics while adding to the "story", VO and all that. It worked but i dont think a third game made with those same mechanics would sell as well.

If they wanted to go for TB "isometric" for BG3, they could have easily used a fusion of DnD rules with best most memorable features of DoS games to create that specific sense of rich dense novelty and evolution of combat mechanics.
With maybe an open world approach, even better visuals and coop stuff, they would most probably have a hit again. Nothing risky or difficult to figure out there.
But it may be that selling 2 or 3 million (maybe 5) just isnt enough anymore.

Fair enough.

 

[Infinitron]

Archived Gameslice interview from yesterday:

 

[The Bishop]

Source?

It's not a direct quote, but:

"But that doesn't mean that Baldur's Gate 3 will be an isometric RPG like BioWare's old Infinity Engine games. Rather, it will have its own identity, Larian founder Swen Vincke tells USG. "We're going to have some things that you haven't seen yet in CRPGs, which I would love to talk about, but I'm going to hold it," Vincke says."

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/larian-studios-shares-its-vision-for-baldurs-gate-3-interview

 

[Mr. Hiver]

That could be taken as a general statement about infinity games but... i dont have that much good will on me. Anyone spare me some?

 

[Lacrymas]

"We are going to have some things that you haven't seen yet in CRPGs", like cover mechanics and shooting magic.

 

[Sentinel]

Source?

It's not a direct quote, but:

"But that doesn't mean that Baldur's Gate 3 will be an isometric RPG like BioWare's old Infinity Engine games. Rather, it will have its own identity, Larian founder Swen Vincke tells USG. "We're going to have some things that you haven't seen yet in CRPGs, which I would love to talk about, but I'm going to hold it," Vincke says."

https://www.usgamer.net/articles/larian-studios-shares-its-vision-for-baldurs-gate-3-interview

That doesn't really mean isometric is out of the cards. Could be some hybrid meme shit with first person exploration and isometric strategic *insert buzzword here* combat.

 

[Roguey]

I haven't blocked you specifically. Just PMs generally. If anyone wants to see my friendlier side, there's always the blog's comments section.

Were you getting flooded with marriage/indecent proposals? How many?

Fallout is literally the only case. And Bethesda were trying to please their existing audience, Larian only have RPG fans.

There's also Obsidian's Dungeon Siege III, and Dragon Age Inquisition, which removed to-hit rolls entirely (II had glancing blows/hits for players and misses/hits for enemies).

 

[Lacrymas]

I was responding to the "there are other CRPGs which became shooters" thing, not action games in general.

 

[Mortmal]

"We are going to have some things that you haven't seen yet in CRPGs", like cover mechanics and shooting magic.

Like competitive multiplayer and monetization.

 

[The Bishop]

That doesn't really mean isometric is out of the cards. Could be some hybrid meme shit with first person exploration and isometric strategic *insert buzzword here* combat.

It's not like the game containing some aspect of isometric projection in broad philosophical sense was the key to my argument. I just said that they provided a comment.

I also feel I'm the only person who read any of the articles and I don't even care that much...

 

[Sentinel]

That doesn't really mean isometric is out of the cards. Could be some hybrid meme shit with first person exploration and isometric strategic *insert buzzword here* combat.

It's not like the game containing some aspect of isometric projection in broad philosophical sense was the key to my argument. I just said that they provided a comment.

I also feel I'm the only person who read any of the articles and I don't even care that much...

You claimed Swen said it wasn't isometric, which isn't necessarily compatible with what was actually said.

 

[AwesomeButton]

All I've been saying so far is that they seem to me to be going for DA:I combat and an alternative top-down "tactical" camera (which I expect will mean shit, just like in DA:I).

Whether this is "negative" or "positive" is your interpretation :D

 

[The Bishop]

You claimed Swen said it wasn't isometric, which isn't necessarily compatible with what was actually said.

The specifics of Swen comment are of completely no relevance to the point I was making. What I was saying is that as far as simple stuff goes, they do comment on it, whereas on more complicated stuff they don't, and there's probably a good reason for it. Why the hell would you nitpick it I have no idea honestly.

And yes in a sensible person's perspective that quote does mean the game is not isometric. But of course you can nitpick it and make a thousand arguments how in philosophical sense it's not a strictly true statement. This is an exercise in futility, but yes you can do it.