Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

“You [indicating Vincke] have talked about how spell slots might not be the most intuitive thing.

What the hell is not intuitive about it? To whom? Braindead imbeciles? The slots represent the Vancian magic system which limits casting spells to a certain number per day.
You put a spell into a slot... and thats how many times you can use it in one day.
ffs.

that is a rule. That is complicated. More so than press button, magic explosion shoot. Blow up. That is what we are dealing with.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Unfollowing thread. I've given up on this and DnD adaptations in general. I'll just play next Pathfinder game

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

At this rate Sword Coast Legends might turn out to be a more faithful D&D adaptation.

I was thinking exactly this today, but I was keeping it for when I see actual gameplay.

this is why I was not even kidding when I said I would have preferred beamdog. because beamdog simply could not fuck it up this much, because they don't have the will, money, desire or even ability to so at this scale.

Yeah they might make a possibly semi- shit version of a isometric RtWP game with some SWJ shit, but this is possibly a complete ass fucking. I still actually think there is a small amount of hope with some sort of DM or/or editor mode, or that maybe I am just being overly pessimistic. But usually when they are being this tight lipped about PR it almost always ends up being bad news for the 'grognard' crowd.

 

[Lady_Error]

no matter to whom Sven would listen too, a large portion of the Codex would still declare him a retard. You can't make everyone happy.

If he tried to stick close to what BG 1 and 2 are, then I doubt many would call him a retard.

 

[Volourn]

Yeah because the BG series/D&D market is so small they desperately want to make a game based on said series and market. ARE YOU FUKKIN RETARTET!?!

If the BG market is so small why bother with the name?

Your logikz is dumb.

 

[Nihiliste]

His attitude towards itemization is the antithesis of what made item-based character development and differentiation in the BGs and IWD so compelling. He clearly does not get it, and is not interested in getting it.

Also, the DOS1 UI was less usable than BG1’s.

Abandon all hope, ye who follow.

Itemization is my biggest gripe with DOS1/2, even moreso than the story. BG2/TOBs itemization were so critical to keeping the character progression interesting, and also served as really a au to create really impactful care rewards for certain quests.

 

[Sentinel]

ugly 3d shit?

Whatever they are, they won't be as good as these:

icewind dale is a beautiful game

1. Who did the portraits for Icewind Dale?
2. Why wasn't that person hired for future games?
3. The somewhat ugly nature of the portraits in Planescape: Torment fits the games aesthetics, which are of a somewhat grotesque, turpistic nature.

Justin Sweet did the portraits for IWD2

 

[Volourn]

"AO STRIPPED EVERY SINGLE GOD OF THEIR DIVINITY AND MADE THEM MORTAL. HE DID IT TO ALL OF THEM, AT ONCE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HELM AND MYSTRA."

u R RETART. He did not strip 'every' god. Every single god that has influence in multiple worlds could leave realmspace ANY TIME THEY WANT.

Ao could not remove godhood from Moradin or the other 'multisphere' gods. He can cut them off from Realmspace. That's it

y u dum?

 

[Volourn]

You do realize that Tiamat still exists in other worlds, right?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

You really are retarded

You are the one mucking on and on about Abdel Adrian and he's the retarded one? Pull the other one laddie.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Ao doesn't decide who is a god. He cannot strip Moradin or Corellon of their godhood you fukknut. He doesn't have that power. You fukknut. He is in control of realsmapce that is it. You fukknutz.


He can bar Tiamat from realmspace but HE CANNOT DESTROY HER OR REMOVE HER GODHOOD EVEN IF SHE HAS NO REALMS PORTFOLIOS OR FOLLOWERS.

Why are you fukknutz?

You really are retarded. Now I'll write slowly, since you obviously have trouble with reading comprehension.

What was the Avatar Crisis, also known as the Time of Trouble?

AO STRIPPED EVERY SINGLE GOD OF THEIR DIVINITY AND MADE THEM MORTAL. HE DID IT TO ALL OF THEM, AT ONCE, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF HELM AND MYSTRA.

Man, you are stupid.

Volourn is right I think, Ao's powers seem to be limited to realmspace.

 

[Volourn]

Stop bullshitting. Ao has control of Realmspace. That's it. He cannot do anything to Moradin outside of Realmsapce and since Moradin's power, godhood, and existence extends (as Creator of all Dwarves) beyond realmspace Ao cannot remove godhood from him you dumb shit. He CAN cut off Moradin from realmspace though and stop him from giving powers to his Realms peace. probably can even force his Realms essence into 'avatar from' while in the Realms but he cannot take away Moradin's godhood in the grand scheme of things YOU DUMB SHIT.

 

[Volourn]

I always do.

 

[kalganoat]

Because it's still easier to sell a known IP than a brand new IP.

 

[Bara]

Whoops never mind saw it was already posted.

Ah well if turns out disappointing just another excuse to load up ToEE again or any of the other classics. I really wish they talked more about Divinity Fallen Heroes at E3 instead of just this nothing we've gotten so far for BG3.

 

[Mr. Hiver]

Ok lilura, we get it, jesus.

Previous pic was better, btw.

that is a rule. That is complicated. More so than press button, magic explosion shoot. Blow up. That is what we are dealing with.

I know, i dont need to be told how the dumbest part of the gaming market thinks.
Thats not the issue here anyway.

The issue is that a director/owner of a company which makes RPGs - and whose last two games also have a version of slots for magic - thinks there is something unintuitive about spell slots.
Despite both DoS games selling very well.

Thats a very familiar type of garbage talk where false excuses are given to change something that doesnt need changing. And the new system doesnt really achieve anything in any way, including making things more intuitive.
The point of the spell slot system in DnD is to limit which spells and how many times you can use them during a specific time period of gameplay, which in that case is a regular day.
If such limits are kept, the slot system is one of the easiest imaginable approaches to do it. And limits must be there because in DnD and many other similar games you simply have too many different spells to let player have all of them all the time.

Not to mention that limits imposed by character stats that the player cannot override with his own skills are what really makes an RPG.

The question here is, does he want to remove the limits entirely by packaging spells into something else?
Or just repackage the presentation?

What a dumb way to handle PR for BG3... he just leaves these mines around that blow up into completely negative reactions.

 

[AwesomeButton]

this is why I was not even kidding when I said I would have preferred beamdog. because beamdog simply could not fuck it up this much, because they don't have the will, money, desire or even ability to so at this scale.

Yeah they might make a possibly semi- shit version of a isometric RtWP game with some SWJ shit, but this is possibly a complete ass fucking. I still actually think there is a small amount of hope with some sort of DM or/or editor mode, or that maybe I am just being overly pessimistic. But usually when they are being this tight lipped about PR it almost always ends up being bad news for the 'grognard' crowd.

This comes to theorycrafting about who was leading the popamolization process - was it more Larian's initiative, or more WotC's requirement. I am already assuming it's 3rd person action game where you can zoom out to a significant distance if you want, and pretend it's an isometric game. Also, Vancian casting appears to be out.

Swen did say that they were in constant communication and he would sometimes borrow plot points and ideas from WotC, but I guess he was in charge of "presenting videogame-friendly systems" and replacing the PnP systems where he deemed it better. He did say in one of the first videos "we have a blank check".

 

[The Bishop]

If the BG market is so small why bother with the name?

Why would anybody want to buy a trademark? Why would GM want to make Cadillacs and Buicks when the original makers were having so much trouble selling them in the first place? Because while specific cars are no longer in good place market wise, the name is still worth something. You can attach that name to a different, more mass appealing car to help sell it better. People place a lot of value in names when buying things for some reason.

And I don't even think that BG market is that small. Pretty sure a faithful BG successor made by people that understand what made the original work could easily sell a couple of millions copies. But a couple of millions of copies is probably not the number you're looking for if you want to turn profit on a 300 people worth development cycle.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

Ok lilura, we get it, jesus.

Previous pic was better, btw.

that is a rule. That is complicated. More so than press button, magic explosion shoot. Blow up. That is what we are dealing with.

I know, i dont need to be told how the dumbest part of the gaming market thinks.
Thats not the issue here anyway.

The issue is that a director/owner of a company which makes RPGs - and whose last two games also have a version of slots for magic - thinks there is something unintuitive about spell slots.
Despite both DoS games selling very well.

Thats a very familiar type of garbage talk where false excuses are given to change something that doesnt need changing. And the new system doesnt really achieve anything in any way, including making things more intuitive.
The point of the spell slot system in DnD is to limit which spells and how many times you can use them during a specific time period of gameplay, which in that case is a regular day.
If such limits are kept, the slot system is one of the easiest imaginable approaches to do it. And limits must be there because in DnD and many other similar games you simply have too many different spells to let player have all of them all the time.

Not to mention that limits imposed by character stats that the player cannot override with his own skills are what really makes an RPG.

The question here is, does he want to remove the limits entirely by packaging spells into something else?
Or just repackage the presentation?

What a dumb way to handle PR for BG3... he just leaves these mines around that blow up into completely negative reactions.

I believe that he and the people he is making the game for don't like the limits placed by once a day casting. They think that in a video game it needs to be more often or its not 'fun', and having it be something like 6 times a day is too arbitrary or abstract so they want it to be on a cool down or basically unlimited. Thats my guess. Hope I am wrong.

I also believe the people he is making the game for don't like and don't really understand, care or get the stats of the character limiting their ability to play thing. To them it just seems like the game is broken or does not work right.

'Realistic' means the guy on the screen does exactly what you say 100% of the time perfectly and never misses with attacks "because the monsters are right in front of you how can you miss something right in front of you, LOL".

Sorry, telling you again how these morons think. It just pisses me off that they constantly are marketed to and ruin every fucking thing they come in contact with.

 

[holla_cabezas_de_mierda]

this is why I was not even kidding when I said I would have preferred beamdog. because beamdog simply could not fuck it up this much, because they don't have the will, money, desire or even ability to so at this scale.

Yeah they might make a possibly semi- shit version of a isometric RtWP game with some SWJ shit, but this is possibly a complete ass fucking. I still actually think there is a small amount of hope with some sort of DM or/or editor mode, or that maybe I am just being overly pessimistic. But usually when they are being this tight lipped about PR it almost always ends up being bad news for the 'grognard' crowd.

This comes to theorycrafting about who was leading the popamolization process - was it more Larian's initiative, or more WotC's requirement. I am already assuming it's 3rd person action game where you can zoom out to a significant distance if you want, and pretend it's an isometric game. Also, Vancian casting appears to be out.

Swen did say that they were in constant communication and he would sometimes borrow plot points and ideas from WotC, but I guess he was in charge of "presenting videogame-friendly systems" and replacing the PnP systems where he deemed it better. He did say in one of the first videos "we have a blank check".

yeah you are probably right. That dumb fuck from WoTC or wherever next to swen in the videos seems like he is just as likely behind this shit as anybody, so it may have been inevitable.

 

[Riddler]

Ok lilura, we get it, jesus.

Previous pic was better, btw.

that is a rule. That is complicated. More so than press button, magic explosion shoot. Blow up. That is what we are dealing with.

I know, i dont need to be told how the dumbest part of the gaming market thinks.
Thats not the issue here anyway.

The issue is that a director/owner of a company which makes RPGs - and whose last two games also have a version of slots for magic - thinks there is something unintuitive about spell slots.
Despite both DoS games selling very well.

Thats a very familiar type of garbage talk where false excuses are given to change something that doesnt need changing. And the new system doesnt really achieve anything in any way, including making things more intuitive.
The point of the spell slot system in DnD is to limit which spells and how many times you can use them during a specific time period of gameplay, which in that case is a regular day.
If such limits are kept, the slot system is one of the easiest imaginable approaches to do it. And limits must be there because in DnD and many other similar games you simply have too many different spells to let player have all of them all the time.

Not to mention that limits imposed by character stats that the player cannot override with his own skills are what really makes an RPG.

The question here is, does he want to remove the limits entirely by packaging spells into something else?
Or just repackage the presentation?

What a dumb way to handle PR for BG3... he just leaves these mines around that blow up into completely negative reactions.

I believe that he and the people he is making the game for don't like the limits placed by once a day casting. They think that in a video game it needs to be more often or its not 'fun', and having it be something like 6 times a day is too arbitrary or abstract so they want it to be on a cool down or basically unlimited. Thats my guess. Hope I am wrong.

I also believe the people he is making the game for don't like and don't really understand, care or get the stats of the character limiting their ability to play thing. To them it just seems like the game is broken or does not work right.

'Realistic' means the guy on the screen does exactly what you say 100% of the time perfectly and never misses with attacks "because the monsters are right in front of you how can you miss something right in front of you, LOL".

Sorry, telling you again how these morons think. It just pisses me off that they constantly are marketed to and ruin every fucking thing they come in contact with.

The issue isn't necessarily what Swen thinks works in his action game but rather that the chief designer of DnD thinks that might have any relevant implications for the PnP game. We have been down this road before with 4th ed and that sure was a grand success!

If you want to make a Witcher-like BG it may or may not be a god idea to remove spell slots but that has no bearing on their value in the PnP system.

At this point I'm unsure if they are making an adaptation of the system at all or just putting the skin of BG/DnD over their witcher/divinity hybrid.

 

[LESS T_T]

Audio interview by Jason Schreier: https://player.fm/series/kotaku-splitscreen/how-baldurs-gate-3-came-together

E3 2019: Jason Schreier talks to Larian Studios boss Swen Vincke and D&D creative chief Mike Mearls about how the Baldur's Gate 3 deal came together, what it's like to make a video game based on Dungeons & Dragons in 2019, and whether Minsc and Boo will be in the game. They talk about the confusion of D&D spell slots, the "infinite possibilities" in a game like this, and how great role-playing games are made.

https://dts.podtrac.com/redirect.mp3/rss.art19.com/episodes/1f188c51-4594-42d9-a255-7d2f528ad8bc.mp3

I could listened only first 10 minutes or so, it seems Jason did his research and tried to make an interesting interview knowing he can't ask about specifics... Maybe you can find something more to chew there.

Also: https://www.pcgamesn.com/baldurs-gate-3/leveling-system

Dungeons and Dragons’ leveling system is too slow for Baldur’s Gate 3

Baldur’s Gate 3 developer Larian has acknowledged a few difficulties in adapting its main source material – the fifth edition Dungeons and Dragons ruleset – to its current project. Certain things in a pen-and-paper RPG just can’t work in a videogame, after all – the most obvious of which is the near-infinite scope that a good DM can give inventive players when devising a solution to a challenge.

Compared with that, you might’ve thought that sorting out a leveling system would be relatively straightforward, but it turns out that Larian’s obligation to work specifically from D&D caused more than a few headaches in this department. We asked Larian founder Swen Vincke how fully his studio is adapting D&D’s character progression, and he said:

“That’s actually been one of the things that we’ve been struggling with, because it’s a very slow leveling process in the books,” he says. As D&D players will know, gaining ten or 12 levels on the tabletop is a journey that could last weeks, but for a videogame, it’s “not a lot.”

Nevertheless, Larian is making a D&D game. Therefore: “We wanted to stick to it. So we’re figuring out ways of letting you still feel that you’re progressing in a meaningful manner, but in a videogame manner.”

The joys of cross-media gaming adaptations run the other way too, apparently. Dungeons and Dragons’ strategic director Mike Mearls has been inspired by working with Larian, such that Baldur’s Gate III seems likely to shape the future of D&D.

Also also:

 

[The Bishop]

Interviewer: How fully do you adapt D&D’s character progression?
Swen: We don't.

 

[Curratum]

I am inclined to agree with the proposed changes. If you want to make a game that takes you from 1 to even 15, you need to speed things up. Baldur 1 was capped out around 10, you just can't squeeze so much progression within the scope of a single game.

People who count XP at the table are sure to be outraged, but I'm also all for milestone XP and have no issue with this sort of thing implemented in the game.

 

[Jimmious]

I am indecisive about the changes since we have no information about them except that they will happen and that they will "stick to" D&D rules