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Final Fantasy VIII Remastered

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Rinoa was the fucking worst, yes. I generally don't really give a shit about romance in games and I'd be happier without any, but I want characters to be reasonable, balanced creatures to hold up the narrative. It doesn't matter if they're weak women or stronk women or whatever, as long as they are written in a way that makes sense.

At the very least, Tifa's "long suffering childhood friend with insecurities needs you to tell her it's ok" crap was mitigated by her having her own character and story & some degree of activeness, and Dagger also doesn't wallow in self-pity for too long and is generally a competent character that tries to find her own solutions to her problems. Rinoa and the FF8 cast in general have a much stronger tendency to be entirely dependent on Squall/Player, becoming thinner thematic foils, which is reinforced by the fact that everything in the story ultimately revolves around Squall and his secrets and functions as a mirror to him (Laguna, the blonde rival guy with the identical gunblade, etc).

At the core of it, though, the game is built in a way so similar to 7 and 9, that if you enjoyed them you're going to enjoy this one, just with an inferior system & story.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
No. Squall is the fucking problem.

When he get an older chick chased after his ass did he stand and fuck her like an 18yo? No, he ran like a fucking chicken.

That was too realistic for my taste. I know it is. Too realistic.

Describe the volcel to to an L~ And ahead of his time too, as that was just the beginning of Lost Decade.
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
289
Honest question:

Why bother playing any FF other than FF12?

I like FF8, in my memories. But, the fact is it's a shit game. The mechanics are shit, the story is mostly shit, and it has a romance which is also shit. My memory fades, since I think I last played it over 15 years ago, but I think it also had an English-language song which of course was shit.

Play a FF game which isn't total shit. Play FF12. It even looks pretty good alright with the Windows version. Sure, it has weaknesses but nothing fatal like FF8's battle, magic, and progression systems. Twelve has Gambits, a job system, a baller setting, competent voice acting, and a coherent plot.

I do like FF8s ridiculous story and presentation (the music especially). That's about it. Mostly, I forgive the weaknesses because I played it when I was 17 and putting up with shit mechanics in our games is what we did. If the remake guts everything about the gameplay in favor of something legit like, say, FINAL FANTASY 12 I will suffer Denuvo and buy it on Steam for the nostalgia hit. But, realistically if they change the game it will become a mess like FF15. If it's at least pretty that would be nice but that happening is no guarantee. Of course it probably will stay the same, which would be the worst possible outcome.

If you read my rant, thanks.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
I dont do the no-encounter because it's silly.

But other than the enc, there's playing card, exploring the town maps.. That's it. There's half the activities related to encounters so~

Anyway, only dumbshit powergamey would do no-encounter. They like to see the 999 stat, you see. Which is just dumb.
 

Hassar

Scholar
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
208
Play a FF game which isn't total shit.
uh-huh, uh-huh

Play FF12
uh-hwhat?

I like FFXII honestly. I liked it when I played through the original and when i played through the remakes. It definitely has issues - the storyline sidelines you from the main action, the cap on magic damage in the original was crippling to me, and the combo system was underwhelming (but this is a personal bias - it’s an RPG thing where warriors can miraculously swing and fight without exhaustion or getting injured for ever while magic users are tied to limited resources this favoring concentrating on weapons for efficiency) but I played that game to death in a way that I did not for any other FF game besides FF6.
 

Nahel

Arcane
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
862
FF 12 was overrated. Despite its beautiful graphics the characters and story were awful. The gameplay was bad and répétitive. The gambits were necessary to mitigate the boredom. The world was wasted. Its like a shitty farming mmo.
 

Hassar

Scholar
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
208
FF 12 was overrated. Despite its beautiful graphics the characters and story were awful. The gameplay was bad and répétitive. The gambits were necessary to mitigate the boredom. The world was wasted. Its like a shitty farming mmo.

Can’t be overrated if the majority of fans seems to dislike it. I think it’s underrated and was a diamond in the rough. Part of the problem was that studio exec meddling was pronounced in its development from what I understand and this game really tried to push the genre into next gen but ran into hard limitations.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...oubles-presaged-a-tough-decade-for-the-series
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
5,105
FF 12 was overrated. Despite its beautiful graphics the characters and story were awful. The gameplay was bad and répétitive. The gambits were necessary to mitigate the boredom. The world was wasted. Its like a shitty farming mmo.

Nonsense. FF12's main problem is the fact it's probably the only core entry in the series that feels blatantly unfinished. Second one would probably be it appears more like an Ivalice title and less Final Fantasy aka bigger focus on overarching plot, factions and morality than fans were used to, particularly coming after FF10. Which resulted in a questionable product when troubled development ended up in even less story than planned, though.
 

Goi~Yaas~Dinn

Savant
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
786
Location
A derelict.
FF 12 was overrated. Despite its beautiful graphics the characters and story were awful. The gameplay was bad and répétitive. The gambits were necessary to mitigate the boredom. The world was wasted. Its like a shitty farming mmo.

Can’t be overrated if the majority of fans seems to dislike it. I think it’s underrated and was a diamond in the rough. Part of the problem was that studio exec meddling was pronounced in its development from what I understand and this game really tried to push the genre into next gen but ran into hard limitations.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...oubles-presaged-a-tough-decade-for-the-series
That's a terrible article, but essentially you are correct: Matsuno tried to give them a glorious game and terming what he supposedly went through "being unused to such a democratic style of leadership" is almost insultingly understating it. They fucked it all up so bad Sakaguchi refused to play and barely even acknowledged the existence of 12 for years.
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
289
FF 12 was overrated. Despite its beautiful graphics the characters and story were awful. The gameplay was bad and répétitive. The gambits were necessary to mitigate the boredom. The world was wasted. Its like a shitty farming mmo.

Can’t be overrated if the majority of fans seems to dislike it. I think it’s underrated and was a diamond in the rough. Part of the problem was that studio exec meddling was pronounced in its development from what I understand and this game really tried to push the genre into next gen but ran into hard limitations.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.us...oubles-presaged-a-tough-decade-for-the-series
That's a terrible article, but essentially you are correct: Matsuno tried to give them a glorious game and terming what he supposedly went through "being unused to such a democratic style of leadership" is almost insultingly understating it. They fucked it all up so bad Sakaguchi refused to play and barely even acknowledged the existence of 12 for years.

Thank God they redeemed the series with XIII. Been nothing but incline since.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I tried FF12 a long time ago, I liked what it was trying to do for the setting and writing, but the combat....

I hate putting my characters on scripted autopilot, I just wonder what is even the point of playing. It's not like you're playing from an isometric/top-down/etc perspective with a clear strategic view and making decisions like in an RTS, you're running around with a big sword and there's huge arrows all over the place and you hardly know what's going on or who's casting what. With IE games, too, I'd argue you either micromanage or, if you find that clusterfucky, you just go play a turn-based game - what's the point in automating it all?
 

Swigen

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
1,014
I liked FF12’s “gambit” system, it was almost akin to “if, then” programming and it kinda made me wanna play Carnage Heart.

:bounce:
 
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
289
I tried FF12 a long time ago, I liked what it was trying to do for the setting and writing, but the combat....

I hate putting my characters on scripted autopilot, I just wonder what is even the point of playing. It's not like you're playing from an isometric/top-down/etc perspective with a clear strategic view and making decisions like in an RTS, you're running around with a big sword and there's huge arrows all over the place and you hardly know what's going on or who's casting what. With IE games, too, I'd argue you either micromanage or, if you find that clusterfucky, you just go play a turn-based game - what's the point in automating it all?

It sounds like you sucked at Gambits. ;)

I honestly had no idea Codexians didn't like FF12. I thought the main criticism here would be the vantage characters Vaan and Panelo. Criticizing the battle system of all things wasn't what I was expecting. It can be chaotic and hard to understand, but it is very pleasing to see your characters act the way you set them up, healing, focus-firing, attacking weaknesses, etc. Much of the fun is in how you set your party up, not in choosing "attack" or "magic" for every mook you whack.

The pacing is my personal biggest gripe with the game. It drags on in the middle, and you go forever without any meaningful story advancement.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I'm prepared for the idea that I just didn't get, or sucked at, FF12. I didn't dig too deeply into it, because the very idea of setting gambits up didn't appeal to me with the vaguely over-the-shoulder perspective. If it's a game with strategic depth or even a grand strategy game, I'd be all over it, but it felt like a lot of work just to get a more boring version of full party control.

From what I played, I did enjoy their effort to break from the pattern set by FF7-10, to introduce some different aesthetics, characters, political intrigue.

I seem to remember that it also started feeling a bit MMOy in terms of pacing around when I gave up. I just didn't fancy traversing all the zones and such with the gambits.

That said, I'm very happy to learn more about how I could enjoy it, it seems like a decent title.
 

Jacob

Pronouns: Nick/Her
Patron
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
3,336
Location
Hatington
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Eh, Squall was competent.

FF8-you-da-man-squall.jpg


Remember to take this with utmost seriousness.
Everyone keeps praising Qistis as the superior choice, but remember, along with the sniper guy, she acts like retard in the assassination mission. Superior choice is Rinoa's mom.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
Eh, Squall was competent.

FF8-you-da-man-squall.jpg


Remember to take this with utmost seriousness.
Everyone keeps praising Qistis as the superior choice, but remember, along with the sniper guy, she acts like retard in the assassination mission. Superior choice is Rinoa's mom.
What's so superior about an one-hit-wonder lounge singer?

On the other hand Quistis is the youngest ever to graduate the SeeD and at 17 youngest ever to become instructor, basically commander of soldier for hire (seeds). She rein as empress with her whipping hand. Has the hot for a younger guy.

I dont get the complaint about Quistis unless "she's too great I feel intimidated".
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
I don't really get the fascination with the romantic interest. Would it really help if you could bone Quistis? Maybe have a creepy ass 3D sex scene? Did Dragon Age deliver your RPG dreams?

Quistis is a standard half-tsundere glasses "I'm smart and talented but also uptight and actually yeah I do need the hot shot protagonist to make me feel OK please hold me but not too tight" weeaboo girl, nothing to see here
 

Goi~Yaas~Dinn

Savant
Joined
Nov 25, 2018
Messages
786
Location
A derelict.
I don't really get the fascination with the romantic interest. Would it really help if you could bone Quistis? Maybe have a creepy ass 3D sex scene? Did Dragon Age deliver your RPG dreams?

Quistis is a standard half-tsundere glasses "I'm smart and talented but also uptight and actually yeah I do need the hot shot protagonist to make me feel OK please hold me but not too tight" weeaboo girl, nothing to see here
I'm guessing you never had the same relationship to your teachers that I had with mine. Many of the teachers I had were old-school; they were there because they wanted to be, they loved their jobs, they were imminently qualified, and they stayed well past the point where the pay really wasn't worth the stress anymore. I was one of the last grades many of them had before retiring (multiple factors, none of them good). So, in my mind a teacher was a powerful figure. Someone to be respected, and yes, a little feared. Many of them knew their shit, and even those that didn't demanded your respect or you could just get the fuck out. They'd physically restrain and escort you themselves if necessary.

Consequently, when I moved on to highschool, it kinda became a problem when there were some real knockouts (sexually speaking). Imagine the ego boost even the mere fantasy of somehow seducing one would have, if you already think of them in such preexisting terms? It didn't help that at least one was fresh out of teaching college, looked nearly as young as we all were, and was the girls volleyball coach. The other two were hot in that MILF kind of way, and I was by no means the only horny teen who felt that way.
 

Hassar

Scholar
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
208
I don't really get the fascination with the romantic interest. Would it really help if you could bone Quistis? Maybe have a creepy ass 3D sex scene? Did Dragon Age deliver your RPG dreams?

Quistis is a standard half-tsundere glasses "I'm smart and talented but also uptight and actually yeah I do need the hot shot protagonist to make me feel OK please hold me but not too tight" weeaboo girl, nothing to see here

The romance was one of the major parts of 8, hence the “Eyes On Me” theme and etc. which is why you see so many people commenting on it. Something about Rinoa was lacking as a romantic lead in a way that was not the case with Yuna in FF10.

I honestly can go without forced romance themes - I think my female Shepard in one of my ME play-throughs was completely celibate and dedicated to her mission. But sometimes it is fun to just engage with the dating sim attributes of these games as a break from the primary means of interacting with the world, the combat, and a means to unlock more content.
 

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