Commandos-Like Desperados III from Mimimi Productions (Shadow Tactics devs) - now with Money for the Vultures DLC

[Zombra]

OK Who's idea was it to use that horrible nigga rap in the game about wild west also the hand drawn 2d maps of the first game look a lot more detailed, sharp compared to that screenshot above look at that blurry rock and cactus!!!

The game is onsole trash and the console niggas like their rap.

You really didn't play Shadow Tactics, did you?

 

[GloomFrost]

OK Who's idea was it to use that horrible nigga rap in the game about wild west also the hand drawn 2d maps of the first game look a lot more detailed, sharp compared to that screenshot above look at that blurry rock and cactus!!!

The game is onsole trash and the console niggas like their rap.

You really didn't play Shadow Tactics, did you?

I did and i enjoyed it. That doesn't change the fact that having to constantly rotate camera was annoying, that maps weren't as detailed as D1 or Commandos 2 or that rap "music" was a retarded choice for wild west game trailer.

 

[Goral]

Shadow Tactics was developed as a PC game only (since this is where the core audience for such games is), hence the game released in 2016 but console version arrived almost a year later! This game however is being dumbed down for consoles from day 1 so GloomFrost is right.

Frieder Mielke, Technical Director at Mimimi Productions, says: “Porting Shadow Tactics: Blades of the Shogun to console was a big challenge. We wanted to make sure that console players would be able to enjoy the exact same experience as on PC, and I believe we’ve achieved that. But no one can be a better judge of that than the players, and that's why we also decided to release a demo version for both platforms, so that every console player can try the game for free and decide for themselves.”

 

[Lemming42]

Playing Shadow Tactics for the first time to see what this studio is all about, and I'm enjoying the game quite a lot. Comparing it with Desperados, though, it feels somehow much more restrictive in what it's prepared to let you do, in a way that I'm not sure I can explain yet. Plus a lot of the levels feel like they have one intended route through them with anything else being quickload hell (you can say the same about a couple of Desperados levels too, definitely). The other criticism I have is that Hayato, Aiko and Yuki all feel like they play near-identically (until you get the disguise for Aiko, at least). And just to echo the discussion earlier in the thread, yeah, the lack of any viable non-lethal route removes a whole dimension from the game that Desperados and Commandos had.

I also want to say that the Samurai are stupid because what's the point of having an enemy that's virtually immune to all your team's abilities, but that's just me being salty that they keep detecting me. Taking out the Samurai squad in that mission where the farmers have been taken hostage is satisfying as fuck when the plan finally pays off after like 20 quickloads.

Shadow Tactics does feel like a studio making a first attempt at this genre of game - that's not an insult - so I'm pretty optimistic that they'll refine what they've already got for Desperados 3, and hopefully take some important lessons from Desperados 1 in the endless playthroughs they must be giving it during development.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Some cheap gameplay tricks addressing your complaints above, don't open if you don't want to learn them

Spoiler

Non-lethal approach is possible if you have Mugen. If you knock dudes out and throw them up ledges/roofs that don't have ladders, they just sit down and don't do anything anymore. This is also possible in a pinch in some other missions in which you can throw dudes down unreachable ledges with characters other than Mugen.

As for samurai - they are fair game if you can knock them out. Like, say, by throwing other people at them

 

[Lemming42]

Haha, I didn't realise you could just straight up throw corpses at Samurai to deal with them. That's a game changer. I'm not above using cheap gameplay tricks if it comes to it - I beat the Okkoto mission by luring almost every enemy in the level to the magic insta-kill zones that get created after you take the officers out.

 

[Zombra]

OK Who's idea was it to use that horrible nigga rap in the game about wild west also the hand drawn 2d maps of the first game look a lot more detailed, sharp compared to that screenshot above look at that blurry rock and cactus!!!

The game is onsole trash and the console niggas like their rap.

You really didn't play Shadow Tactics, did you?

I did and i enjoyed it. That doesn't change the fact that having to constantly rotate camera was annoying, that maps weren't as detailed as D1 or Commandos 2 or that rap "music" was a retarded choice for wild west game trailer.

Wasn't talking to you, but OK

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/06/19/desparados-3-preview/

Desperados III is Shadow Tactics wearing a lovely cowboy coat that lets you pause

My main memory of Desperados is repeatedly getting shot and not understanding why. That’s because I tried to play it when I was eight, not because it was impenetrable or confusing. I’m simply making you aware that Desperados was before my time, and so based on my hands on with Desperados III I can’t tell you whether it’s living up that legacy.

It’s from the same team that made Shadow Tactics though, and I can tell from the little I’ve played this absolutely lives up to that.

It does that largely by being very similar – but not excessively so. The basics are the same: “vision cones and quick-loading”, as creative director Dominik Abé put it in our interview. This is still (pretty much) a real-time tactics game where you carefully plan stealth attacks using fragile heroes with varying skill sets. You’re still encouraged to save and experiment, still given the freedom to eek overambitious plans into reality. Only this time those plans are likely to involve guns, and pausing.

Back when we were in Japan, ‘Shadow Mode’ let us program multiple characters to act at the same time. “You chuck your sake over there”, you’d tell your Samauri, “while Yuki plays her flute and the old man unleashes his raccoon dog”. The world didn’t stop to let you do that, though. Murder was a matter of lurking in the shadows, giving orders, then waiting for the right moment to spring your plan. But I often found myself resorting to elaborate followups, quickly swapping between characters in a repetitive, Hotline Miami-esque quest to sneak or slaughter my ninjas out of a tight spot. Now that we’re back in the boots of John Cooper and his gang (before the events of Desperados the first) Shadow mode has progressed to ‘Showdown Mode’. It stops that fiddliness by also stopping time.

“A lot of players wanted that feature”, Abé told me, “and a lot of them wanted to be able to do more in the shadow mode.” Abé and his team realised that adding a pause could make both groups happy, so they went for it. Especially when they realised it was a handy way of making guns work in a stealth game. Gunfights proved too hectic without a pause, but developers Mimimi didn’t want discovery to spell game over. It’s a balancing act between risking every encounter slipping into a shootout or having players becoming too gun-shy, and part of the solution was to sprinkle ammo crates through each level.



“We really played around with that a lot, because we wanted to embrace guns as it’s a Western, and in Desperados 1 they played a larger part – so we were trying a lot of different ways to integrate them into our core stealth mechanics. The combination of the pause mode and the guns finally felt like everything was coming together. Balancing-wise we don’t want you to use them all the time, but we do want you to use them – so that was very well balanced by putting in ammo crates, because you will always kind of be forced back into stealth.”

Abé also mentioned that “you don’t have to use them at all if you don’t want to”, and that Showdown Mode won’t stop time on the hardest difficulty level. On the one hand, I often wound up enjoying the challenge of executing a fiddly Shadow plan. On the other hand, I’m looking forward to seeing how elaborate my plans get once I can pause. I was only shown an early chunk of the game, and didn’t need to use Showdown for anything but looking stylish.



Abé also showed me a later level where you get to wander about without being accosted. It’s very Hitman: a big open level with restricted zones and guards that won’t attack you immediately if you trespass. If you listen to the townfolk, they might tell you about your target’s hidden poison and their drinking habit, or how unfortunate it would be if a crumbling wall were to cost yet another person’s life.

These are ‘civil zones’, as far as the wild west supports such a thing. Still, it’s an idea this context supports. Everyone would attack ninjas on sight, Abé told me, but a cowboy needn’t worry unless they cause trouble. Or indeed if they cause trouble without being caught, as Abé demonstrated by discreetly placing a bear trap outside a restricted zone, luring a guard to it with a whistle, then sauntering off in plain sight. Two seconds later the man was waste deep in steel spike. He quivered, violently, then went limp.

I’ve got no problem with playing up gruesome deaths for laughs, at least from the remove of a top-down camera angle. But it did remind me how Shadow Tactics lets you play non-lethally, though the challenge is brutally difficult and offers no feedback or reward beyond a badge. I asked Abé if that was different here.

“We want the player to play the way he wants to, so we don’t want to rate you if you play non-lethal. But non-lethal is more supported because you can tie up enemies and put them out of the game. Shadow Tactics was super hard because enemies always woke up again”.

That’s a welcome addition, though I imagine playing mercifully will still be beyond my abilities. I always enjoy seeing characters respond to my restraint or vicious abandon, though, and pressed Abé specifically on that.

“So in Shadow Tactics they were ninjas and really didn’t care about people. In Desperados they comment a little bit more, but it’s a fun western about blazing guns. If a cowboy shoots someone that’s kind of how it works, you can’t be super moral about it – that would take out the fun. It’s not that serious!”

I’d argue feedback of that sort could still be approached playfully, but it’s a minor absence from a game I’m itching to spend more time with. Despite all the additions I haven’t had a chance to see in action, Desperados III feels like a known quantity. It’s a comfy cowboy boot with the sole of a ninja’s sandal, but lets me click my heels together and stop time. I can’t ask more from a sequel than that.

 

[HansDampf]

Showdown Mode won’t stop time on the hardest difficulty level.

 

[Zombra]

I hope it's still possible to sneak and KO/tie up most enemies.

Give up hope now.

Lemming42, in case you didn't read that article, rejoice! I spoke too soon.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/06/19/desparados-3-preview/

“We want the player to play the way he wants to, so we don’t want to rate you if you play non-lethal. But non-lethal is more supported because you can tie up enemies and put them out of the game.”

 

[Lemming42]

That's great news, and the civil zones thing with Hitman-esque solutions sounds really cool too.

On the topic of non-lethal playthroughs, I've been playing more Shadow Tactics and it feels strange that the game offers you tools such as the KO variant of the hand grenade when the levels don't feel designed to use it. The "throwing KO'd people onto unreachable platforms" trick is working great though, I beat the prison escape mission earlier tonight by chucking half the guards on the map onto a small platform near the start of the level.

On another note, I really love Aiko's disguise mechanic, even if it does allow you to clear whole levels by walking up to people, stabbing them in almost plain sight, and then standing next to the corpse as more unsuspecting guards walk over to be stabbed. I hope they tighten the mechanic up a little and bring it back in Desperados 3 as an ability for Kate or whoever.

 

[unfairlight]

Completed the first one just now. Enjoyed it overall despite some bad missions and a few too many bothersome design decisions. The game crashed right after the credits ended.

 

[Zombra]

I really love Aiko's disguise mechanic, even if it does allow you to clear whole levels by walking up to people, stabbing them in almost plain sight, and then standing next to the corpse as more unsuspecting guards walk over to be stabbed. I hope they tighten the mechanic up a little and bring it back in Desperados 3 as an ability for Kate or whoever.

Kate's ass, the strongest weapon from the original Desperados, does indeed make a return in this game.

Don't blink, you'll miss it at 0:40:

 

[Goral]

On another note, I really love Aiko's disguise mechanic, even if it does allow you to clear whole levels by walking up to people, stabbing them in almost plain sight, and then standing next to the corpse as more unsuspecting guards walk over to be stabbed.

Yeah, her ability was OP and didn't make sense, it's obvious that she would be the first suspect at the scene of a murder so unless she would manage to flee they would definitely see through her disguise (not to mention that stabbing someone to death with a hairpin would be impossible without having some blood on you). Same goes with that bear trap that this bearded guy is walking around with (which I've mentioned here, they were supposed to look into it but in the end they've stuck with it because most likely it would require far too much work to change), they could have just gone with Sam who is much more realistic and would definitely be as enjoyable to play (and traps are older than snakes and have been used since Commandos 1 or earlier).

 

[Beowulf]

"Desperados III is the cowboy tactics game I never knew I wanted": https://venturebeat.com/2019/06/10/desperados-iii-is-the-cowboy-tactics-game-i-never-knew-i-wanted/

"Desperados III: Why THQ Nordic is making a prequel for the stealth tactics series": https://venturebeat.com/2019/06/10/...ing-a-prequel-for-the-stealth-tactics-series/

Did the companies started to outsource trailer editing to some "gaming entertainment" studios?
Can't help but notice the recent trend of using shitty tracks with tone at odds with the atmosphere of the game (granted, here it's not as glaring as it was with the infamous Mariachi Terminators).

 

[Agame]

Slightly off topic, but are there any games kind of like Commandos/Desperados (tactical stealth with squad) but turn-based?

 

[Jimmious]

Slightly off topic, but are there any games kind of like Commandos/Desperados (tactical stealth with squad) but turn-based?

Yeah, Jagged Alliance 2.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Slightly off topic, but are there any games kind of like Commandos/Desperados (tactical stealth with squad) but turn-based?

Invisible Inc.

 

[Jimmious]

Also Silent Storm I guess if we are going WW2

 

[Zombra]

Thread started for this derail >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

What derail?

 

[Love]

Slightly off topic, but are there any games kind of like Commandos/Desperados (tactical stealth with squad) but turn-based?

"Robin Hood: The Legend Of Sherwood" and "Star Trek: Away Team".

Unfortunately I can't find any pictures of the great advertisement campaign for the first one. There was one with the guy from Commandos, the competing franchise at the time, trapped by the smug Robin.

 

[Jimmious]

"Robin Hood: The Legend Of Sherwood" and "Star Trek: Away Team".

Both are tactical stealth with squads indeed, but both are also not turn based

 

[Love]

"Robin Hood: The Legend Of Sherwood" and "Star Trek: Away Team".

Both are tactical stealth with squads indeed, but both are also not turn based

Yes. I read over that last part.

 

[LESS T_T]

Closed beta with NDA:

Despera-Beta! Mimimi Games is looking for closed beta testers

Vienna, Austria/ Munich, Germany, July 3rd, 2019: A nasty bug. And you. High noon, in front of the Saloon ... the clock strikes 12 ... *bang* and he's sent to meet his maker! You are exactly the gunman, Mimimi Games is looking for - we need fans and interested players to participate in the closed beta test for Desperados III.

Watch the closed beta trailer: http://n.thq.com/zsnL30p3cfs

Desperados III, the upcoming real-time tactics game, was recently nominated as Best Strategy Game of E3 for the official Game Critics Awards. Although Desperados III is really breathtaking, it didn't had a fair chance to win, as one of the competitors was the one and only John Wick. And everyone knows you shouldn't mess with John Wick.

Details about the closed beta

The Closed Beta will start on Tuesday, July 9th and will end on Sunday, July 21st. Out of all applications Mimimi and THQNordic will select 500 participants which will get the chance to play the game, which is entering the final stages of production.

Players can sign up for the Desperados III Closed Beta here:https://forms.gle/329bY5wwQmrvvLLu5

"This is not the a "pre order now to play the game before anyone - but we don't really need you feedback because release is in just two weeks"-closed beta, people might be used to nowadays. We really want to invite the community to play the game while it’s still under construction and share their thoughts and wishes with us. And we want to have the time to react to the players’ input and to optimize the game together." says Dennis Huszak, Narrative Director at Mimimi Games.

Desperados III will ride into the sunset on your PC, your PlayStation®4 computer entertainment system, and your Xbox® One in 2019.

For more information on the game, please visit https://desperadosgame.com/