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Which game is best at dungeoneering and freedom?

huntsman1899

Literate
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
43
Eyeing Realms of Arkania Star Trail, the two Ravenloft games, and Menzoberranzan. Which of these is best at capturing the feeling of dungeoneering and giving the player freedom in what they do and how they’d solve problems?
 

lukaszek

the determinator
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
12,621
deterministic system > RNG
 
Last edited:

Dorateen

Arcane
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Aug 30, 2012
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4,332
Location
The Crystal Mist Mountains
Absolutely Star Trail. To give just one example, there is a dungeon in the game that restricts access to certain races and classes, which means you might have to leave a couple of party members behind. (In the Realms of Arkania series, the player can split their party and switch between the two.) However, through the use of a mechanics related solution, players can circumvent this restriction on characters, if they can figure it out. Great freedom and potential for emergent gameplay.
 

ManaJunkie

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
281
Star Trial. But you are obliged to finish ROA:BOD and import your party. Every other approach is VERBOTEN by the third commandment of the Church of Nordlandtrilogie.
 

McPlusle

Savant
Joined
May 11, 2017
Messages
319
Star Trial. But you are obliged to finish ROA:BOD and import your party. Every other approach is VERBOTEN by the third commandment of the Church of Nordlandtrilogie.
Shit. I really wanna play RoA but every time I try I always end up rolling characters that don't qualify for literally any archetype.
 

huntsman1899

Literate
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
43
Absolutely Star Trail. To give just one example, there is a dungeon in the game that restricts access to certain races and classes, which means you might have to leave a couple of party members behind. (In the Realms of Arkania series, the player can split their party and switch between the two.) However, through the use of a mechanics related solution, players can circumvent this restriction on characters, if they can figure it out. Great freedom and potential for emergent gameplay.


Sounds pretty great. Does the game give you a good amount of these situations that allow clever use of tools and magic?
 

Ysaye

Arbiter
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
771
Location
Australia
Eyeing Realms of Arkania Star Trail, the two Ravenloft games, and Menzoberranzan. Which of these is best at capturing the feeling of dungeoneering and giving the player freedom in what they do and how they’d solve problems?

For dungeoneering, I feel Menzoberranzan is the best, although I haven't played stone prophet and I am told that has some fun dungeons. Basically you descent from the Dales above all the way down through the Underdark to the dark elf city of Menzoberranzan; it actually feels like a long way in the game.

For freedom of methods to solve problems, probably Realms of Arkania. Different characters and skills will make some solving things easier and other things more difficult. In the main dungeon there is a couple of solution methods that you can use to get around a significant issue, each with additional problems that they raise.
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin
I still can't think of anything that comes close to EverQuest. There are traps people can fall into, one dungeon is in a huge cavern made out of crystals and ice, and there are slippery floors so when you stop moving, your character keeps going... People can fall into some nasty situations in that place. One of the classes has the ability to summon others to them which would be a total life saver in those situations. Otherwise the person will likely die unless they are uber, but if they die another class can summon their corpse to you and then they can be resurrected. There are also some doors that need a Rogue to unlock. One brutal dungeon has a fake floor trap and if you fall through you land in a prison cell below with enemies in the room. If you even survive, other characters will likely need to help them escape.

The focus is mostly on the combat though and it is endlessly complex, or it seems it at first anyway. Some enemies are clumped together and if they see you, they will all attack together and it is sort of un-survivable. But several classes have some different ways to split up enemies like that. Some can do it after you have been attacked, but some can split the enemies before they even attack you. One of the ways is quite complex. But the bosses are the biggest thing about the game. For example one room has 4 spell caster enemies. 2 wizards that are stupidly powerful, and one is a class that can mind control a member of your party. Scary stuff. Each boss has unique mechanics that you have to figure out and overcome to win.

And yeah this is an MMO, but you can play it solo if you want to, you can even play it offline. I think the best way to play is offline by yourself, but with your own party. No game come close. Vanguard had more interactive dungeons with keys you had to find first, and events you needed to trigger before you could reach certain places etc.. One dungeon was a huge ant cave and there were crystals growing out of the walls which drain all your mana really fast if you stand near them. And you keep getting ambushed as you go through, so sometimes you have to run through a tunnel of enemies and crystals to get to an area up ahead away from the crystals. Scary... Deadly! Great game, but the combat in EverQuest was better overall.
 

huntsman1899

Literate
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
43
I still can't think of anything that comes close to EverQuest. There are traps people can fall into, one dungeon is in a huge cavern made out of crystals and ice, and there are slippery floors so when you stop moving, your character keeps going... People can fall into some nasty situations in that place. One of the classes has the ability to summon others to them which would be a total life saver in those situations. Otherwise the person will likely die unless they are uber, but if they die another class can summon their corpse to you and then they can be resurrected. There are also some doors that need a Rogue to unlock. One brutal dungeon has a fake floor trap and if you fall through you land in a prison cell below with enemies in the room. If you even survive, other characters will likely need to help them escape.

The focus is mostly on the combat though and it is endlessly complex, or it seems it at first anyway. Some enemies are clumped together and if they see you, they will all attack together and it is sort of un-survivable. But several classes have some different ways to split up enemies like that. Some can do it after you have been attacked, but some can split the enemies before they even attack you. One of the ways is quite complex. But the bosses are the biggest thing about the game. For example one room has 4 spell caster enemies. 2 wizards that are stupidly powerful, and one is a class that can mind control a member of your party. Scary stuff. Each boss has unique mechanics that you have to figure out and overcome to win.

And yeah this is an MMO, but you can play it solo if you want to, you can even play it offline. I think the best way to play is offline by yourself, but with your own party. No game come close. Vanguard had more interactive dungeons with keys you had to find first, and events you needed to trigger before you could reach certain places etc.. One dungeon was a huge ant cave and there were crystals growing out of the walls which drain all your mana really fast if you stand near them. And you keep getting ambushed as you go through, so sometimes you have to run through a tunnel of enemies and crystals to get to an area up ahead away from the crystals. Scary... Deadly! Great game, but the combat in EverQuest was better overall.

Does this apply to Everquest 2 as well? Also, I'm assuming there's no way of playing Vanguard anymore huh?
 

anvi

Prophet
Village Idiot
Joined
Oct 12, 2016
Messages
7,530
Location
Kelethin

Does this apply to Everquest 2 as well? Also, I'm assuming there's no way of playing Vanguard anymore huh?

Not sure about EQ2, I stopped playing it early on because it was so terrible compared to the first game :/ There are people working on a Vanguard emulator but it is painfully slow. It is just a few guys working part time without any source code or anything to help. They have done a hell of a lot but it is still going to be at least 2 years before it is worth checking out :/
 

ManaJunkie

Arbiter
Joined
Feb 15, 2018
Messages
281
Star Trial. But you are obliged to finish ROA:BOD and import your party. Every other approach is VERBOTEN by the third commandment of the Church of Nordlandtrilogie.
Shit. I really wanna play RoA but every time I try I always end up rolling characters that don't qualify for literally any archetype.
Rolling in DSA! Great fun....You know you can reuse one good roll for several characters, right?
 

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