Baldur's Gate Smaug and Lilura argue about Baldur's Gate, RTwP vs TB, etc

[Lilura]

When complaining about lack of features such as climbing, it's worth bearing in mind that BioWare were not super-talented coders like Sir-Tech (Jagged Alliance 2): BioWare was only a fledgling company when they developed BG. They had only developed one game before that: Shattered Steel. And they already had an RTS engine in the pipeline: Battlefield Infinity.

And yet, they still managed to put a big, contiguous world together, with a solid plot and a half-decent combat system and ruleset implementation. It's a great creative, technical and organizational achievement.

 

[Lutte]

I don't -hate- BG1. I understand its historical context too. And I wasn't as critical when I first played it. I just like BG2 better. Although on the writing front BG1 was better done. The conspiracy and politics were a cooler topic than your bitchy sister is abducted and you should care instead of applaud the criminal for some goddamn reason. If I had the choice I would have given Irenicus a fucking medal.

 

[Lilura]

I don't see how anyone can like the sequel better than the seminal installment, other than by flaw of bad taste.

 

[smaug]

I don't see how anyone can like the sequel better than the seminal installment, other than by flaw of bad taste.

 

[Lutte]

Because playing through ToB with Gaider's Ascension gave me what I felt was the penultimate IE experience.

 

[Curratum]

Because playing through ToB with Gaider's Ascension gave me what I felt was the penultimate IE experience.

Penultimate means just "last but one", not "right next to the ultimate" in terms of intensity.

 

[Strange Fellow]

BG3 will be the ultimate, obviously.

 

[Lilura]

Because playing through ToB with Gaider's Ascension gave me what I felt was the penultimate IE experience.

Mods'll fix it (and Ascension didn't).

Nothing could fix Throne of Bhaal short of a complete rewrite of both Shadows and Throne.

My review of Throne.

 

[Lilura]

I don't know, it felt cheesy and out of place in the low level setting of the game.

Yeah, didn't think you'd be able to back that up. You three are coming off as BG newbies, tbqh.

 

[smaug]

I don't know, it felt cheesy and out of place in the low level setting of the game.

Yeah, didn't think you'd be able to back that up. You three are coming off as BG newbies, tbqh.

Why are you such an asshole?

 

[Popiel]

Why are you such an asshole?

Oh kiddo... Poor you. You should have shut up when I told you.

 

[smaug]

Why are you such an asshole?

Oh kiddo... Poor you. You should have shut up when I told you.

Why are you sucking a trannies dick?

At least I got standards, yo.

 

[MajorMace]

At least I got standards

yo.

 

[Popiel]

Why are you sucking a trannies dick?

At least I got standards, yo.

I don't even like Lil' Lil, but a out you she's right.

 

[smaug]

Why are you sucking a trannies dick?

At least I got standards, yo.

I don't even like Lil' Lil, but a out you she's right.

Can you speak English? I mean I can’t talk that much trash cause I can barely speak it properly. But damn son, you’re on a whole
New level.

 

[Lutte]

Because playing through ToB with Gaider's Ascension gave me what I felt was the penultimate IE experience.

Mods'll fix it (and Ascension didn't).

Nothing could fix Throne of Bhaal short of a complete rewrite of both Shadows and Throne.

My review of Throne.

I liked it solely for its hack and slash qualities, particularly with the enhanced modded encounters. I don't disagree that it did everything else worse, nor do I disagree that BG2's narrative is broken and the focus from ToB would have been better served in the main game itself, as much of Shadows of Amn is like a diversion from the original plot threads. The gauntlet nature of many of the encounters were very, very enjoyable to me.

 

[Cael]

It was only with the advent of 3.x that levels went crazy and 4th made it even crazier with 30 levels pre-Epic (or functional equivalent).

Is high levels actually a thing in third edition table top games?

The reason why second edition topped at low levels is because of how long it took to reach really high levels in real life playing. Only in video games one would expect to get to epic levels, i can't imagine third edition would be any different from second edition in that respect, but then i don't play pnp so i don't know.

They made it so that, on average, you do 13.33 encounters of your party's level, you gain a level. Just think about that for a second. Your average PnP session has, what? 4-5 such encounters?

The real problem, though, is that they start pandering to higher levels with monsters that go up to there. ToEE, for example, has that infamous Balor that your level 10 party is supposed to fight and win. A real Balor is a CR 20 encounter in the 3.5 system, designed for level 20 parties. Normally, it would wipe the floor with a level 10 party. So, why is it there? Because it is a relic of 1st Ed, where Epic was level 10 or so, and the Balor was a level appropriate encounter.

 

[Lilura]

As I've said over and over again, Durlag's Tower is the jewel in the crown of the Infinity Engine. It alone destroys the entirety of BG2.

Love for excessive set-piece battles is major decline.

The monocled prefer sustained battles against tough hordes, as seen in IWD and IWD2.

 

[smaug]

Lutte your taste are apparently complete shit according to Lilura. How do you feel?

 

[Curratum]

As I've said over and over again, Durlag's Tower is the jewel in the crown of the Infinity Engine. It alone destroys the entirety of BG2.

Love for excessive set-piece battles is major decline.

The monocled prefer sustained battles against tough hordes, as seen in IWD and IWD2.

Don't be like that, Lilura, I almost quit IWD entirely after Mr Soy-er made me fight the exact same horde of big skeletors and cold wights of whatever the fuck it was FOUR TIMES IN A ROW on the level before the yuan-ti temple in Chapter 2.

 

[Lutte]

As I've said over and over again, Durlag's Tower is the jewel in the crown of the Infinity Engine. It alone destroys the entirety of BG2.

Love for excessive set-piece battles is major decline.

The monocled prefer sustained battles against tough hordes, as seen in IWD and IWD2.

I guess this is why you loved DAO and I hated it. Samey is boringmey

 

[Lilura]

Don't be like that, Lilura, I almost quit IWD entirely after Mr Soy-er made me fight the exact same horde of big skeletors and cold wights of whatever the fuck it was FOUR TIMES IN A ROW on the level before the yuan-ti temple in Chapter 2.

You exaggerate. But such encounter design goes beyond prestigious and becomes prestige itself.

 

[Curratum]

Don't be like that, Lilura, I almost quit IWD entirely after Mr Soy-er made me fight the exact same horde of big skeletors and cold wights of whatever the fuck it was FOUR TIMES IN A ROW on the level before the yuan-ti temple in Chapter 2.

You exaggerate. But such encounter design goes beyond prestigious and becomes prestige itself.

I do not. The level with the necromancer in the chamber on the bottom right has literally four of the exact same horde.

 

[Lutte]

Lutte your taste are apparently complete shit according to Lilura. How do you feel?

I'll bite once.
Everything you love is shit according to someone else somewhere on this planet. You deal with it.

 

[smaug]

Lutte your taste are apparently complete shit according to Lilura. How do you feel?

I'll bite once.
Everything you love is shit according to someone else somewhere on this planet. You deal with it.