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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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It would be illegal if Epic was in Steam place but they are not. It requires first huge share on market.
Different laws,you are talking the one about monopoly,which steam is not. EPIC is fucking EU laws in more than one way. For one it steals privet data and sells it to Chinese corporations,also it brakes like a half a dozen competition laws.
 

Perkel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 28, 2014
Messages
15,858
It would be illegal if Epic was in Steam place but they are not. It requires first huge share on market.
Different laws,you are talking the one about monopoly,which steam is not. EPIC is fucking EU laws in more than one way. For one it steals privet data and sells it to Chinese corporations,also it brakes like a half a dozen competition laws.

Neither is MS monopoly and yet it was fucked over by EU like romanian hooker.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
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Messages
28,024
Can you scoop up your TOS and see that stuff, you are on steam so you should get pretty much the same TOS as everyone else.
There's nothing there about price restrictions, otherwise you'd never see a different deal or promotion that doesn't match Steam's price.

Though i know Steam now has split for AAA games (20%) which could have different TOS (though this also should be available to you to read it)
The split is now tied to sales (25/75 if a game sells 10 mil; 20/80 if a game sells 50 mil), which would cover games like Darkest Dungeon, Undertale, and Minecraft, not just the AAAs.

What happened was true though. A lot of developers freaked out about Epic selling their games 15-20% cheaper than market price despite covering that money from their own bank.
If I have to guess, they freaked out because they thought it would affect their future sales on Steam, not their dealings with Steam. It doesn't matter if Epic covered the difference, a lot of people would hesitate buying a new game for $60 if they saw it on sale for $40.
 

Perkel

Arcane
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Messages
15,858
If I have to guess, they freaked out because they thought it would affect their future sales on Steam, not their dealings with Steam. It doesn't matter if Epic covered the difference, a lot of people would hesitate buying a new game for $60 if they saw it on sale for $40.

This makes sense.
 

Silentstorm

Learned
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Apr 29, 2019
Messages
885
Man, sometimes i feel weird coming here because i do not hate Steam or the idea of launchers at all and just use Steam or GOG without thinking about it.

Steam does have problems though, their new sale game/activity or whatever is freaking dumb and is apparently confusing many people, it's even making a lot of people suddenly remove games from their wishlists, particularly indie games, because there is apparently an activity revolving around wishlists?

I don't know, i honestly took a look at that thing with the teams and all and i got out of it to look at sales instead, but it seems the Summer Sale activity is just a confusing mess that can be making people buy less indie games.
 

Kutulu

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ger
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex
I like how the lizardman epic guy talks about exclusives and potentially lower prices at the same time. These things are not contradictory at all.

Here is the problem.
Epic tried to with their own cash to make every epic store game cheaper about 15-20%
Meaning developer gets 60$ and Epic charges 45$ client and they cover 15$

What happened ? Developers freaked out that they were effectively selling their games below market price which would brake Steam TOS and few other shops (like probably PSN and other) and pulled their games from presale/sale for a while.

So tell me now who is at fault here now ?

edit:

So not only developer would get 12% cut but also gamer would get his cut.
IT was first real shot at changing AAA games price point. Because we all know 60$ is just random price point.


Epic? Because everyone knows that once a game has dropped in price people arent willing to pay more for it, if you start with a day one sale for 50$ nobody will buy it at 60$.
Its also artificial as fuck since nobody knows for how long epic would be able to supply that 10$...


Epic basically devalued other companies goods, since it will do worse in other markets that dont offer those 10$.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
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Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Just want to pop in to this sidebar for a moment to say that Discord is garbage as a substantial communication tool.
"I just want to say that paper is mistake"
Tell me, why are you posting in a thread instead of stringing together one-liners in shoutbox? You appear to believe shoutbox is a superior platform.
 

Perkel

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Tell me, why are you posting in a thread instead of stringing together one-liners in shoutbox? You appear to believe shoutbox is a superior platform.

Because you are retarded and can't use tools.

Discord/chat: If you want to talk quickly about specific topic. Want to check latest emulator performance ? Just hit emulator discord and ask on general chat and you will have answer in few seconds

Reddit/Voat: News aggregators from specific branches with reactions. General gaming news r/games, pc hardware news ? r/hardware, want to watch amateur chick showing their boobs ? r/gonewild want ot have latest news about research papers ? r/science, latest news about astronomy ? r/astronomy etc.

codex/forum: Long discussion formula where you can unwrap your inner lizard and masturbate all you want talking mostly to people you know writing those 1 post essays.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
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Vault Dweller
Does Valve ever put games on sale without the developer's OK?
Never. Valve provides the platform, developers handle the rest.

Would a smaller share to the platform reduce the amount of sales/increase sale prices?
Prices, discounts, and sales frequency are determined by developers, not Steam, so I don't see why they'd be affected by a different revenue split.
 
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Vault Dweller
Does Valve ever put games on sale without the developer's OK?
Never. Valve provides the platform, developers handle the rest.

Would a smaller share to the platform reduce the amount of sales/increase sale prices?
Prices, discounts, and sales frequency are determined by developers, not Steam, so I don't see why they'd be affected by a different revenue split.
Do developers decide all regional pricing too?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
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Yes. Steam offers a price matrix (mainly to make sure developers won't do anything stupid) that automatically generates regional prices based on the US price, but developers can override it and often do that, if they feel they know better.
 

Irata

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Messages
304
I thought I read that Valve used to recommend price points. If I did read it, it would have been back when Steam was still relatively new.

Recommend sale price points that is.
 

BlackAdderBG

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I thought I read that Valve used to recommend price points. If I did read it, it would have been back when Steam was still relatively new.

Recommend sale price points that is.

They did that couple of years ago in one winter sale, something like sharing info to what the best discount/sale strategy they found brings best results on steam. It was something like a FAQ if I remember correctly.
 
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Paradox Interactive: "The 70/30 revenue split is outrageous"

At Gamelab 2019, a developer panel discussed Epic's attempt to offer an alternative to the dominant revenue share model

The 70/30 revenue split offered to developers by most platform holders is "outrageous," according to Paradox Interactive's Fredrik Wester, who praised Epic Games' efforts to offer a more reasonable alternative with its own store.

Speaking as part of a panel at Gamelab last week, which was hosted by GamesIndustry.biz, Wester did not mince his words when talking about the deal that the industry's biggest distribution platforms offer to developers.

"I think the 70/30 revenue split is outrageous," he said. "I think the platform holders are taking too much money. Everyone in the press here, just quote me on that."

Wester is now executive chairman of the board at Paradox, after stepping down as CEO after a long tenure last year. In that time, the Swedish company built its business on PC genres like grand strategy and simulation, with Valve's Steam as perhaps its most important marketplace.

Steam takes 30% of revenue from the majority of games on its platform -- just like platforms operated by Microsoft, Sony, Apple and others. However, Wester suggested that the 70/30 split was based on a model established by Warner Bros. in the '70s, for the distribution of films on boxed VHS tapes.

"That was physical. It cost a lot of money," he said. "This doesn't cost anything. So Epic has done a great job for the whole industry, because you get 88%. Fantastic move. Thank you very much."

While Wester was unequivocal in his assessment of the issue, Epic has received criticism from consumers for using exclusives as a means of building an audience; making it necessary for gamers to have a second PC storefront and launcher to access specific products.

Last week, Epic CEO Tim Sweeney entered a discussion on the issue on Twitter, citing the need for a challenge to the "70/30 status quo" enforced by stores like Steam, for the good of developers who could reinvest the money.

Epic achieving that objective of providing a competitive alternative to Steam is important for the industry, Wester said.

"I think it is, especially for new developers. They have lower margins, to get into the market. But I think it's also a matter of decency. I mean, how much does it actually cost to deliver a game?

"When the competition is low, the platform holder can get a big share of the pie; as competition increases, they need to lower their part of the pie, as well. That's how the market works, right?"

For his part, Sweeney has publicly stated that it will abandon its exclusives strategy if Valve changes Steam's revenue share to offer developers a more favourable deal. Right now, though, any developer faces a potential backlash if they opt to accept an exclusivity deal with the Epic Games Store.

This is a particularly tricky situation for smaller developers, which have small fan-bases that are likely to be Steam users. In addition, the kind of incentives -- both financial and in terms of exposure -- that Epic is offering could make the difference between finishing a game and running out of money, or between turning a profit and making a loss. The stakes are high.

"That [the 88/12 split] is a huge boon," said Dan da Rocha, another panellist, who is best known as the creator of the indie hit Qube. "It's a huge advantage. In some cases, that 30% taken is more than the profit for a small studio. That's just crazy, right? So that's a huge incentive for some of us.

"It's a tricky one. If you have a fanbase on Steam and you go to Epic, there could be a massive outcry there -- a fallout. But it depends on: Is the price right? Does it make sense financially? Is that just a vocal minority on Steam, talking about that and making those arguments?

"It's about weighing that up, I think. But the audience on Epic is getting larger now."

Tequila Works co-founder Raul Rubio offered another perspective, which captured a key change in the value that Steam offers to its partners now, compared to six or seven years ago -- despite its cut remaining exactly the same.

When Tequila Works launched Deadlight in 2012, Rubio said, "the amount of games that were released that year, in 2012, is the same number that are released in one month now on Steam.

"For us it was great, because we got the spotlight; people could see the game on Steam. Now, you basically need to rely on memes to grab attention."

You can look forward to more coverage from Gamelab 2019 this week. In the meantime, you can read God of War director Cory Barlog's thoughts on how improved technology is creating new possibilities for using famous actors in video games, and EA senior designer Katie Scott on improving diversity in FIFA, and how that changed the way EA looks at all of its games.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2019-07-01-paradox-the-70-30-revenue-split-is-outrageous
 

Fedora Master

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Alienman

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
And still they make use of a lot of Steam services. And they would probably never been this popular if it wasn't for Steam. Interesting concept currently by devs, shitting on the company that made them successful in the first place.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
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And still they make use of a lot of Steam services. And they would probably never been this popular if it wasn't for Steam. Interesting concept currently by devs, shitting on the company that made them successful in the first place.
There is no way for them to go to epic,it just lacks hell of a lot features that they use. There they can't do their dlc and frequent patching,also no mods to keep their games alive.
 

TheImplodingVoice

Dumbfuck!
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And still they make use of a lot of Steam services. And they would probably never been this popular if it wasn't for Steam. Interesting concept currently by devs, shitting on the company that made them successful in the first place.
There is no way for them to go to epic,it just lacks hell of a lot features that they use. There they can't do their dlc and frequent patching,also no mods to keep their games alive.
I refuse to use the Epic-Tencent Store. But just how far behind is the Tencent-Epic Store with features compared to Steam? Because it seems like the only way Tencent is getting publishers / developers on their store is by paying them. Pisses me off because it forced me to buy The Sinking City on console because it's also exclusive to the fucking Tencent-Epic Store.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Messages
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Bulgaria
And still they make use of a lot of Steam services. And they would probably never been this popular if it wasn't for Steam. Interesting concept currently by devs, shitting on the company that made them successful in the first place.
There is no way for them to go to epic,it just lacks hell of a lot features that they use. There they can't do their dlc and frequent patching,also no mods to keep their games alive.
I refuse to use the Epic-Tencent Store. But just how far behind is the Tencent-Epic Store with features compared to Steam? Because it seems like the only way Tencent is getting publishers / developers on their store is by paying them. Pisses me off because it forced me to buy The Sinking City on console because it's also exclusive to the fucking Tencent-Epic Store.
I don't use both stores to be hones,anything worth buying is on gog. Still from what i have read,they don't even have rating/review or community hub systems,thus they must be behind with everything else also. They even tried to spin it as if no reviews and place for people to talk about the games is a feature. Also don't buy it,the game is trash.
 

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