Cyberpunk 2077 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[volklore]

I don't think love in time of conflict and strife is out of place at all, even gruesome war stories have elements of romance. I agree that they are usually garbage in RPGs though, but I don't think the issue is that they are out of place in absolute. They are mainly treated as a checkbox for any rpg these days where you need to have chicks/dudes all over your PCs parts rather than something that actually fit their character.

 

[Yosharian]

Can someone explain to me why the Codex is so afraid of romance in video games? RPGs are, above all, about inhabiting a character in a fictional world; there's even PnP RPGs which have almost no combat at all.

It's clear that the focus in C2077 is creating a realistic world and placing you in it, giving you the option to interpret your character and develop them as you see fit. Romance is an integral part of the human experience and therefore it makes a lot of sense to have it in the game.

Even if you consider the cyberpunk source material in literature, there's almost always romance in the books. There's romance in Neuromancer, Snow Crash, Schismatrix, etc.

I sincerely doubt that Codex posters are 'afraid' of romance. More likely, they despise the cack-handed romances that generally plague the medium. Most games don't come close to having good writing, and romances are especially difficult to write well.

 

[gulagdandy]

I don't think love in time of conflict and strife is out of place at all, even gruesome war stories have elements of romance. I agree that they are usually garbage in RPGs though, but I don't think the issue is that they are out of place in absolute. They are mainly treated as a checkbox for any rpg these days where you need to have chicks/dudes all over your PCs parts rather than something that actually fit their character.

Well, again, this is a critique of the way it's implemented, whereas most of the comments discussing romance here seem to have something against the very idea.

I for one I'm confident that CDPR can pull off well written romances that fit the narrative.

Also, if we're playing a super badass hero it stands to reason that at least some people we interact with would be attracted to our character and try to flirt.

 

[Yosharian]

It also feels out of place that you would fall in love while in the middle of saving village/town/region/country/land/planet/universe/all of reality.

I disagree with that, it strikes me as particularly likely that two people could fall in love when in desperate times.

 

[Tacgnol]

Can someone explain to me why the Codex is so afraid of romance in video games? RPGs are, above all, about inhabiting a character in a fictional world; there's even PnP RPGs which have almost no combat at all.

It's clear that the focus in C2077 is creating a realistic world and placing you in it, giving you the option to interpret your character and develop them as you see fit. Romance is an integral part of the human experience and therefore it makes a lot of sense to have it in the game.

Even if you consider the cyberpunk source material in literature, there's almost always romance in the books. There's romance in Neuromancer, Snow Crash, Schismatrix, etc.

Because the vast majority of romances are terribly written gimmicks. Usually thrown in these days because it's what audiences expect.

I guess we can blame Bioware for that.

 

[Infinitron]

Much of the Codex's anti-romance stance is actually more about being "anti-people-who-really-like-romances". There's a narrative that BioWare's romances attracted a "bad crowd" that the studio destroyed itself by pandering to. Romances are seen as something that people have a tendency to care about to the exclusion of other things.

 

[LESS T_T]

Look at all these people flipping assets:

 

[gulagdandy]

Much of the Codex's anti-romance sentiment is actually more about being "anti-people-who-really-like-romances". There's a narrative that BioWare's romances attracted a "bad crowd" that the studio destroyed itself by pandering to. Romances are seen as something that people have a tendency to care about to the exclusion of other things.

This I can understand, to an extent.

For me, romance in RPGs is an important thing because it feels weird to have this expansive narratives that last months of in-game time, and have every character be chaste and show no attraction that develops over time. Like other people have commented, it seems natural that people would find solace in romance (or sex) in desperate situations.

 

[Tacgnol]

Look at all these people flipping assets:

My first thought with 2069 was some sort of porn parody.

 

[norolim]

Look at all these people flipping assets:

Didn't CDPR trademark "cyberpunk" in the context of games?

 

[Zer0wing]

Can someone explain to me why the Codex is so afraid of romance in video games? RPGs are, above all, about inhabiting a character in a fictional world; there's even PnP RPGs which have almost no combat at all.

It's clear that the focus in C2077 is creating a realistic world and placing you in it, giving you the option to interpret your character and develop them as you see fit. Romance is an integral part of the human experience and therefore it makes a lot of sense to have it in the game.

Even if you consider the cyberpunk source material in literature, there's almost always romance in the books. There's romance in Neuromancer, Snow Crash, Schismatrix, etc.

Because there's not many good writers who can handle a good romance, not even talking about realistic one. Yes, it's that simple.

 

[commie]

Much of the Codex's anti-romance sentiment is actually more about being "anti-people-who-really-like-romances". There's a narrative that BioWare's romances attracted a "bad crowd" that the studio destroyed itself by pandering to. Romances are seen as something that people have a tendency to care about to the exclusion of other things.

This I can understand, to an extent.

For me, romance in RPGs is an important thing because it feels weird to have this expansive narratives that last months of in-game time, and have every character be chaste and show no attraction that develops over time. Like other people have commented, it seems natural that people would find solace in romance (or sex) in desperate situations.

But it depends on how it's done...Male Shep fucking every alien pussy in the galaxy to just then 5 minutes from the end of the universe discover; in a epic twist; that he was a faggot all along is pushing it too far.

This is the kind of shit the Codex is against, not realistic portrayals of attraction.

 

[Mr. Hiver]

Not every human physiological need needs to be a part of the gameplay. You never see your character take a shit either.
It doesnt mean they are physically incapable of it or never do it in that story or a game. Its just not what the story - gameplay is about.

And most RPGs are not made to role play romances at all. So inclusion of those takes away from other content - and then its almost always done horribly badly. Cringe worthy idiotic crap that is forced onto characters for no real internal logic reason except - to satisfy desires of some players. Nobody on the codex is going to explain all of that each time this feature is mentioned, so "romances are shit" is just a shortcut.

You may notice nobody complained about romances in Witcher 3 - and thats because they made sense in internal logic of the story, were logical for the characters in it and were done in a sufficiently good way - instead of retarded forced cheap pandering superficial crap. Thats one easy example where that feature isnt taking away from the content of the game and even adds to it.

 

[gulagdandy]

Much of the Codex's anti-romance sentiment is actually more about being "anti-people-who-really-like-romances". There's a narrative that BioWare's romances attracted a "bad crowd" that the studio destroyed itself by pandering to. Romances are seen as something that people have a tendency to care about to the exclusion of other things.

This I can understand, to an extent.

For me, romance in RPGs is an important thing because it feels weird to have this expansive narratives that last months of in-game time, and have every character be chaste and show no attraction that develops over time. Like other people have commented, it seems natural that people would find solace in romance (or sex) in desperate situations.

But it depends on how it's done...Male Shep fucking every alien pussy in the galaxy to just then 5 minutes from the end of the universe discover; in a epic twist; that he was a faggot all along is pushing it too far.

This is the kind of shit the Codex is against, not realistic portrayals of attraction.

I mean, this would be your choice? Is the complaint that there's a possibility to have a gay relationship after having been playing a straight character throughout the trilogy?

It seems like it would be uncommon but not unthinkable that someone discovered they were bisexual during adulthood, but let's face it, it's just a consequence of Nott having a "sexuality selector" in character creation; which would be a more awkward solution imo.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

You never see your character take a shit either.

and this is decline

 

[Mr. Hiver]

Im going to correct that critical oversight in my game.

 

[Infinitron]

I think commie is conflating two related but separate things. The Codex was against romances way before the social justice movement made mandatory gay relationships part of the genre. Codexers thought romance was killing BioWare long before any of that stuff was around. Even today when people talk about cringeworthy RPG romances with terrible fanbases, they're more likely to be thinking about Aerie from BG2, not the gay Jersey Shore-looking dude from ME3 who nobody even remembers anymore. The SJW stuff supercharged anti-romance sentiment but did not cause it.

 

[Wunderbar]

not the gay Jersey Shore-looking dude from ME3 who nobody even remembers anymore

that dude wasn't gay, i believe he wasn't romanceable at all.

 

[commie]

Much of the Codex's anti-romance sentiment is actually more about being "anti-people-who-really-like-romances". There's a narrative that BioWare's romances attracted a "bad crowd" that the studio destroyed itself by pandering to. Romances are seen as something that people have a tendency to care about to the exclusion of other things.

This I can understand, to an extent.

For me, romance in RPGs is an important thing because it feels weird to have this expansive narratives that last months of in-game time, and have every character be chaste and show no attraction that develops over time. Like other people have commented, it seems natural that people would find solace in romance (or sex) in desperate situations.

But it depends on how it's done...Male Shep fucking every alien pussy in the galaxy to just then 5 minutes from the end of the universe discover; in a epic twist; that he was a faggot all along is pushing it too far.

This is the kind of shit the Codex is against, not realistic portrayals of attraction.

I mean, this would be your choice? Is the complaint that there's a possibility to have a gay relationship after having been playing a straight character throughout the trilogy?

It seems like it would be uncommon but not unthinkable that someone discovered they were bisexual during adulthood, but let's face it, it's just a consequence of Nott having a "sexuality selector" in character creation; which would be a more awkward solution imo.

Ok, but it should be a part of some internal monologue or something...Rule 101 in writing: you never introduce new elements that change everything right at the end. It's not consistent with the 90% of the trilogy that came before. It's gross pandering and shitty shoehorning.

I think commie is conflating two related but separate things. The Codex was against romances way before the social justice movement made mandatory gay relationships part of the genre. Codexers thought romance was killing BioWare long before any of that stuff was around. Even today when people talk about cringeworthy RPG romances with terrible fanbases, they're more likely to be thinking about Aerie from BG2, not the gay Jersey Shore-looking dude from ME3 who nobody even remembers anymore. The SJW stuff supercharged anti-romance sentiment but did not cause it.

Fair enough, but I think that was overreaction based on not-understanding that when RPG's moved from being mechanics based dungeon crawlers; where story was basically a utilitarian device to give a reason to slaughter everything; to a more narrative based experience, then adding romances would be a natural part of worldbuilding at that point. It's not romances themselves that are the problem, but the fact that most are so badly done. I actually was moved far more by that exchange between Nameless and his past love in PS:T where she reminded him of what he did to her in his prior incarnation and the undercurrent of feeling she still had for him. That's the quality shit there....

 

[Thal]

Can someone explain to me why the Codex is so afraid of romance in video games?

It's because virtually every codex member is a gameplayfag and they associate romances with the type spearheaded by Bioware, which was one of the cornerstones of the decline. Remember the Bioware writer that coined the skip-the-combat option? On the other hand, even if they are storyfags, they prefer the narrative style of PS:T that was based on character development, which is antithetical to choose-your-waifu pandering that reached its final form in Mass Effect 2. One is roleplaying, the other is mental masturbation. For this reason, I didn't mind BG2 romances. They were a surprise, and therefore felt natural. But things have changed since then.

Nearly every rpg romance is to narrative what corridor shooter is to gameplay.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

not the gay Jersey Shore-looking dude from ME3 who nobody even remembers anymore

that dude wasn't gay, i believe he wasn't romanceable at all.

he was bro-tier, I take offense at Infinitron's insinuation

 

[PulsatingBrain]

skip-the-combat option

Was that ever implemented?

 

[Reader]

For me, romance in RPGs is an important thing

Why? Why does it has to be an rpg? There tons of visual novels for that crap.

Codexers thought romance was killing BioWare long before

Of course! Khalid was a bro!

 

[S.torch]

On the other hand, even if they are storyfags, they prefer the narrative style of PS:T that was based on character development, which is antithetical to choose-your-waifu pandering that reached its final form in Mass Effect 2.

PS:T had romance. Only gameplayfags complain about romance in videogames.

 

[Gerrard]

Can someone explain to me why the Codex is so afraid of romance in video games?

Can't relate.