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Anime Your Unpopular Gaming Opinions

volklore

Arcane
Joined
Jun 19, 2018
Messages
1,638
Not that I necesarilly disagree with you, that RPGs tend to succeed on story more than gameplay (especially in the mainstream). But in Fallout, PS:T for example, the reading involves all the roleplaying options and navigating those options with regards to your character sheet is gameplay, not matter how closely it is tied to the story. As opposed to games like BG or PoE where reading is almost 100 percent distinct from gameplay and only there for the purpose of storytelling.
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Oh, I have a LOT of unpopular gaming opinions for the Codex... But I'll go with the most aggravating ones:
Underrail and even more ELEX are overhyped in here and are really...not so good.
Underrail is the more fun of two but specifically for people that like the combination of TB combat and loot porn. Not much more to it, tbh
ELEX is pure euro-jank with a cringe worthy cast of characters, protagonist included
 

Swigen

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 15, 2018
Messages
1,014
American Sniper was a shit movie and it’s the reason gun mags nowadays are full of ads showcasing men with beards crying.

Kel-Tec-RDB-Survival-ad.jpeg
 

DJOGamer PT

Arcane
Joined
Apr 8, 2015
Messages
7,347
Location
Lusitânia
- Only zoomer girls play RPGs for the story.

I'll go completely the other way into a probably equally unpopular view and say that videogames, including RPGs, often succeed more on story and setting than anything else.

DMC, Ninja Gaiden, F-Zero, Zelda, Mario, Doom, Thief, Splinter Cell, Megaman, Metroid, Prince of Persia, Nioh, etc - never succeeded because of their story.

I used to think gameplay was above all else before I realised a lot of my favourite games are mechanically flawed or basic and succeed based on sound and visual design and interesting settings.

If their gameplay is that flawed, then it never was good to begin with.

Look through the Codex Top 70. Planet Escape: Tournament, Fallout, Arcanum, Bloodlines, Morrowind, New Vegas, Deus Ex... a lot of these games are more about reading engaging stories and exploring fascinating worlds than gameplay.

I don't know about you, but I've always played Deus Ex for the gameplay and content.

In some cases the gameplay (PST combat) is annoying shit that you only tolerate because you're there for the story, world and characters.

PST is not game though, so that's not a good example.

Deus Ex is another one, because I think the FPS combat is objectively terrible and the stealth is like a retarded version of Thief. Deus Ex admittedly isn't just about the setting, it's also about the outstanding map design and the satisfaction of creating/finding your own ways to overcome or avoid challenges, but it's still all in service of going deeper into the story.

Combat and movement are not the only thing to gameplay. Gameplay also includes interaction, mechanics, systems and in the case of RPG's the ones pertaining to the PC development. All of which Deus Ex is indisputably excellent at. Also the stealth isn't bad, is just unlike thief it is tied to you character's skill/stats. Also the quest design, exploration and level design are not part of the game's story, but of the game's content. And it's the story that's in service of them, it's the other way around (to give the player context).

Only pretensions hacks make the story first then a game around it. And the end result is always a shit game. Every time.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,038
Location
The Satellite Of Love
- Only zoomer girls play RPGs for the story.

I'll go completely the other way into a probably equally unpopular view and say that videogames, including RPGs, often succeed more on story and setting than anything else.

DMC, Ninja Gaiden, F-Zero, Zelda, Mario, Doom, Thief, Splinter Cell, Megaman, Metroid, Prince of Persia, Nioh, etc - never succeeded because of their story.

I said often, not always. But as long as you've listed those games, I'd say a few of them wouldn't be quite as widely acclaimed as they are without strong visual designs and settings (Thief, Zelda, etc). Thief's stealth systems are fascinating in a way that's never been replicated and there's no doubt that it's a great game entirely on merits of gameplay, but sneaking into Cragscleft Prison is as memorable and awesome as it is because of the sounds of Hammerites reciting scripture echoing off the walls around you, the zombies creeping around in the mines, the experience of working your way up through the factory, through the prisons and into the oddly luxurious chapel and guard quarters and all that stuff.

If their gameplay is that flawed, then it never was good to begin with.

That's more or less the point I was trying to make.

I don't know about you, but I've always played Deus Ex for the gameplay and content.
Combat and movement are not the only thing to gameplay. Gameplay also includes interaction, mechanics, systems and in the case of RPG's the ones pertaining to the PC development. All of which Deus Ex is indisputably excellent at. Also the stealth isn't bad, is just unlike thief it is tied to you character's skill/stats. Also the quest design, exploration and level design are not part of the game's story, but of the game's content. And it's the story that's in service of them, it's the other way around (to give the player context).

You weren't primarily interested in the conspiracy story, the dystopian setting, JC Denton's atrocious one-liners, the discussions on politics with insane-accent bartender guy, and characters like Everett, Paul, Chow, Page and so on? You were primarily drawn in by the experience of crawling through vents and walking up behind virtually-blind guards who can practically never spot you? I agree that the level design is a huge strong point and I mentioned as such in my post, but again, the setting and the story is what compels the player to want to search through those levels. And not to mention the soundtrack which lifts the whole game up even higher.

To be clear, I think Deus Ex succeeds on both level design and story/setting, and I think it would be a mistake to divorce either one from the other and claim it's what makes the game singlehandedly great. I do think, however, that the stealth and FPS mechanics really are both total shit, but my argument was that none of us care because the game succeeds so strongly in other areas.

I also don't agree that quest design is valuable on its own without a good story or setting to combine it with. To fall back on Bethesda games as a counter-example yet again, look at Fallout 3 - the quest design is technically sound, with many quests having multiple routes and solutions, skill checks in dialogue, combat and non-combat solutions, stealth options, and even a couple of creative solutions that require the player to have accessed information or talked to another NPC beforehand. It's just that none of this matters because there's no reason to care about any of it when it's in service of one of the most asshat retarded settings in all of gaming and every single piece of dialogue is mindblowingly shitty.

Only pretensions hacks make the story first then a game around it. And the end result is always a shit game. Every time.

Mostly agreed. I don't like the trend of movie games in recent years where the gameplay is just barebones (often highly scripted) crap to push the player to the next cutscene.
 

Machocruz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2011
Messages
4,315
Location
Hyperborea
CRPGs are poorly served by having a lot of complexity.

I used to think that the more a CRPG captured every aspect of pen and paper as much as possible, the better it was. But I'm not so sure anymore.

I don't think this is a problem in itself, but people have remarked that CRPGs have a high quantity of jank compared to other genres, and I feel the same, and I'd say a high amount of tedium. The format just can't serve all the different aspects of pen and paper and incorporate them into a holistic, stable design. When developers try it results in bug ridden, sometimes even broken games or game features. Many of us accept that because the bigger picture of what these games are offering is worth it. But there is also the satisfaction of playing something that works flawlessly or nearly, and is more immediate. And imo these are the games that focus on a couple key areas to the exclusion or minimization of everything else. Think Wizardry. An incomprehensible, scary game to the plebs, but like an arcade game to CRPG vets who have played everything. Make a party, go in a dungeon, get raped kill shit. No dialgoue trees. No open world fuckery. No plot altering C&C. Combat, dungeon crawling. Still perfectly playable to this day, nothing need be added or taken away, like Doom or Super Mario Bros. It just works.

The problem with the dumbed down games is that they're watery shit in the areas they supposedly focus on AND the ones they are lax on. Bethesda all about that exploration, but the exploration sucks because they don't go for broke on itemization, dungeon design, bestiary, etc.
 
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DalekFlay

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 5, 2010
Messages
14,118
Location
New Vegas
FMV games were a great opportunity for gaming that failed only because lack of talent and budget.

That runs into the paradox of how much of the beloved charm of them comes from both of those things.

Games like the Tex Murphy stuff are genuinely good, and the real actors actually enhance them. Well, Under a Killing Moon and Pandora Directive, anyway, I barely remember the last one.
 
Unwanted

Elephantman

Unwanted
Joined
Apr 8, 2019
Messages
253
Gameplay is Completely irrelevant in vidya.
99 percent of you wouldnt recognize it if it hit you in the ass and legs.
Vidya is atrocious fucking trash made to kill time.
It's overall design and skill required to build, aside from the tech - which is a separate thing that has nothing to do with games, is lower than what is required to create the lowest of the lowbrow TV soap operas.
So, consuming vidya is on par with reading erotic Sanic fanfiction.

The conclusion of this line of thinking is that you should kill yourself. Srsly.
 

pakoito

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,086
The Dota combat system would be perfect for any RPG or Roguelike.

Open world games are an unfocused mishmash of minigames separated by boring traveling segments.

Gamey games are the most popular and what makes a franchise, despite what marketing departments and movie budgets would want you to think.
 

Citizen

Guest
The Dota combat system would be perfect for any RPG or Roguelike.

Isometric view, movement and attack by mouse clicks, shortcuts for spells and consumables? Arent most of BG-clone rtwp rpgs work exactly like this? (+ pause button)
 

pakoito

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 7, 2012
Messages
3,086
The Dota combat system would be perfect for any RPG or Roguelike.

Isometric view, movement and attack by mouse clicks, shortcuts for spells and consumables? Arent most of BG-clone rtwp rpgs work exactly like this? (+ pause button)
It's also cooldowns, specialization around 1-2 skills, and character-altering itemization.


...


Victor Vran is probably the game that's the closest to doing this, and playing it felt GOOD.
 
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Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
The Dota combat system would be perfect for any RPG or Roguelike.

Open world games are an unfocused mishmash of minigames separated by boring traveling segments.

Gamey games are the most popular and what makes a franchise, despite what marketing departments and movie budgets would want you to think.
The Dota combat system would be perfect for any RPG or Roguelike.

Isometric view, movement and attack by mouse clicks, shortcuts for spells and consumables? Arent most of BG-clone rtwp rpgs work exactly like this? (+ pause button)
It's also cooldowns, specialization around 1-2 skills, and character-altering itemization.


...


Victor Bran is probably the game that's the closest to doing this, and playing it felt GOOD.
play these



btw, if you were referring to victor vran, I agree -- I typically don't like diablo-clones but the combat was very satisfying.
 
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Joined
Jun 24, 2019
Messages
694
Fallout 4 dialogue is the same as 3 and NV where you typically have four-ish choices in any given dialogue prompt, being either yes, no, [request lore], the edgy option, or just saying goodbye. Therefore people crying about the dialogue wheel as if earlier games actually had deeper RP elements are just dum dums who got trolled by a different visual format for the exact same thing they liked before.

The voiced protag sucks for RP though, that part is popular and correct.

Newfags...
 

Tse Tse Fly

Savant
Joined
Dec 26, 2017
Messages
622
We never had a proper Fallout game (and most certainly will never get one)

The first Fallout is pretty close to being that, if it wasn't for the underwhelming combat and distressingly flawed plot (among other problems the game has)
 
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