best "first" goldbox game?

[Excidium II]

Pool of Radiance is great but its interface will drive you nuts, I thought I could endure it because I have no problem with lots of older games and boy, how wrong I was. You may want to start with a later game.

Its contemporary Ultima games on the other hand, amazing UI.

 

[Kirben]

So is there "a best" version of this game? Wikipedia lists Amiga, Apple II, C64, MS-DOS, Apple Macintosh, NES and PC-9800 versions.
By rights (i.e, its custom chips) the Amiga version would shit on the others, but I doubt SSI were capable of taking advantage of them/had the inclination to.
So I suppose it's the DOS version, unless the C=64 has better sound (it was often the case back then).

The Amiga version of Pool of Radiance was actually a very well done and offered several advantages:
32 colors graphics (designs are quite different compared to DOS version)
Better music (introduction and encamp)
Better sound effects for combat
Mouse support

 

[octavius]

So is there "a best" version of this game? Wikipedia lists Amiga, Apple II, C64, MS-DOS, Apple Macintosh, NES and PC-9800 versions.
By rights (i.e, its custom chips) the Amiga version would shit on the others, but I doubt SSI were capable of taking advantage of them/had the inclination to.
So I suppose it's the DOS version, unless the C=64 has better sound (it was often the case back then).

The Amiga version of Pool of Radiance was actually a very well done and offered several advantages:
32 colors graphics (designs are quite different compared to DOS version)
Better music (introduction and encamp)
Better sound effects for combat
Mouse support

Last time I tried an emulated version I was not happy with it. It was like the battle screens had to be redrawn three times for each character. May have been an emulation problem, though, since I noticed something similar with Might&Magic 2, but never noticed anything of the sort when playing on a real Amiga.
But the bugged Cloaks of Displacement (makes you invulnerable to physical attacks)* in the Amiga version of Secrets is a strong argument for not using the Amiga versions for a full playthrough of the entire Pool series.

* I've mentioned this a few times, but nobody has ever confirmed or denied it.

 

[Lilura]

The Amiga version of Pool of Radiance was actually a very well done and offered several advantages:
32 colors graphics (designs are quite different compared to DOS version)

The visuals are a lil' different and there's maybe a couple extra colors, but not 32.

This is how a 32 color image looks on an Amiga (WHDLoad HDD version of Agony, screenshot taken with WinUAE):

This is how PoR looks on Amiga (WHDLoad HDD version, screenshot taken with WinUAE):

So yeah, shitty DOS-like image touched up by a second-rate artist.

(Pics were taken as JPGs so actual color counting is pointless, it'll probably say there's 1000s..)

EDIT- I just retook the pics as PNGs cuz I'm curious: the first pic has 45 colors and the second 14; sounds about right.

Btw, the WHDLoad version of PoR has copy protection removed and loads instantly from HDD. And yeah, the music is ok but again it isn't using anything close to the Amiga's full range (which was typical of ports from shitbox PCs and STs of the day).

 

[Kirben]

Well the Amiga port of Pool of Radiance benefits from graphics with more colors at least, although maybe not full 32 colors.

That screenshot was specific to the introduction of the Amiga version, so not really touched up at all.

 

[Invictus]

I played Gateway first and loved the combat, then tried the Dragonlance games in order and Secret of the Silver Blades so pretty much any game will get you hooked so you can enjoy the rest to varying degreees but all are worthwhike

 

[Lilura]

That screenshot was specific to the introduction of the Amiga version, so not really touched up at all.

To me it looks like a classic shitbox image; maybe it was painted on one (that would explain the limited palette and crude dithering)? It's not native Amiga graphics.

So what's good party composition in PoR, or is any setup ok?

 

[octavius]

That screenshot was specific to the introduction of the Amiga version, so not really touched up at all.

To me it looks like a classic shitbox image; maybe it was painted on one (that would explain the limited palette and crude dithering)? It's not native Amiga graphics.

So what's good party composition in PoR, or is any setup ok?

Generally multi-class characters are very useful in PoR, but not so much in later games.
You need lots of Sleep spells in the beginning, and getting Fireball ASAP is also important.

So this is the party I'd make if replaying the series:
Human Fighter
Human Mage
Human Cleric
Dwarf Fighter/Thief
Half-Elf Cleric/Mage
Elf Fighter/Mage

Ditch the last two characters in Curse of Azure Bonds, and replace them with a Paladin and Ranger.

 

[Lilura]

Gah, make sure if you're using UAC to install WinUAE outside of ..\Program Files (x86) otherwise you won't be able to save your characters and the game will crash to Workbench!

 

[Null Null]

Depends. Amiga has 32-color graphics and sound and is probably the best version of Pool of Radiance standalone. (Some of the graphics were imported into the FRUA version, which is an alternative that happens to be the only version where you can get spells above the 3rd level, because there are no level caps).

I'm not sure how successful people have been at transferring characters into Curse and beyond, so if you are going to do that you might want to go with the PC version.

 

[DavidBVal]

I didn't play the Dark Sun one, but other than that, Pool of Radiance is way, way better than any of the others, with only PoD coming close because of the epicness of battles.

 

[madrigal]

I finished game with skidrow floppy version, seemed ok, you can use turbo floppy disk speed, to cut load times, or just use warp mode when loading. You could also just save snapshots, unless you think that using a different save mechanism is somehow cheating.

Gah, make sure if you're using UAC to install WinUAE outside of ..\Program Files (x86) otherwise you won't be able to save your characters and the game will crash to Workbench!

Can't you just run it elevated.

 

[Kirben]

Depends. Amiga has 32-color graphics and sound and is probably the best version of Pool of Radiance standalone.

Do you mean the other versions don't have sound, or just that the Amiga has better sound? The game may have been advertised as having 32 colors but they're probably just referring to the palette because I'm not seeing 32 colors in any shots.

The DOS versions were limited to PC Speaker and Tandy sound, and the introduction music was only offered in earlier versions (1.0/1.1) of Pool of Radiance. The Amiga port of Pool of Radiance has superior music (used by introduction and encamp) and much better sound effects for combat. The later Amiga ports add extra bits of music (combat start, treasure screen) too.

Only the final game of the first series (Pools of Radiance, Curose of the Azure Bonds, Secret of the Silver Blades, Pools of Darkness) has good sound effects, equal to the Amiga ports.

 

[Lilura]

I finished game with skidrow floppy version, seemed ok, you can use turbo floppy disk speed, to cut load times, or just use warp mode when loading.

That's good to know. Many's the time I ran into dodgy scene cracks..

You could also just save snapshots, unless you think that using a different save mechanism is somehow cheating.

I guess for some people save states can be a slippery slope to cheese and cheating, but I'll check out snapshot.

Can't you just run it elevated.

I still get the annoying UAC prompt and have to type in an admin password... It's easier for me to just install elsewhere, anyway.

The DOS versions were limited to PC Speaker and Tandy sound, and the introduction music was only offered in earlier versions (1.0/1.1) of Pool of Radiance. The Amiga port of Pool of Radiance has superior music (used by introduction and encamp) and much better sound effects for combat. The later Amiga ports add extra bits of music (combat start, treasure screen) too.

Sampled sound was always a major thing that separated the Amiga from the scrubby PC and ST, but that doesn't change the fact that PoR has extremely poor sound for an Amiga game. One magazine gave PoR a sound score of 33/100 and wasn't impressed by the graphics either, complaining they looked 8 bit, which backs up what I said above. But then, aesthetics aren't everything are they...

 

[octavius]

Lilura, nice party you have there.
I had forgotten how much nice the Amiga version looks. And nice to see a character named after me not wearing a bikini this time...

I you wanna know how the random encounters work in PoR, open the spoilers:

Spoiler

There is a finite amount of random encounters in each area. Or you can say each area have fixed (as in their composition) encounters, but some of them are wandering, and where and when you meet them is random.
Also, the numbers in the random encounters increase the higher your stats are.

 

[Lilura]

Lilura, nice party you have there.

Well it's the one you suggested, to a tee.

I decided to max the primary stats and go with sub-optimal others.. I won't miss out on quests without a charismatic party member, will I?

It's interesting that hit dice are rolled for first level scrubs (unlike the IE RPGs where they're maxed): my M-U has 3 HPs even with Con 16 so she must have rolled a 1 on the 1d4..

Thanks for the pro-tip on REs.

 

[octavius]

I decided to max the primary stats and go with sub-optimal others.. I won't miss out on quests without a charismatic party member, will I?

Not to my knowledge. You get most of the quests from the city clerk, or from your reputation as a group.
But it may affect Parlay[sic]ing.
Also the really important stats are WIS for Cleric and INT for Mages, to eventually be able to cast lvl 9 spells, and DEX for all to get the initiative in the really hard battles. CON and STR are of lesser importance in the long run, IMO.

It's interesting that hit dice are rolled for first level scrubs (unlike the IE RPGs where they're maxed): my M-U has 3 HPs even with Con 16 so she must have rolled a 1 on the 1d4..

I think PoR follows the rules to the letter, while later games give you some sort of bonus. If you generate a new character in Curse of the Azure Bonds they will have more HP than a characters of same level transfered from PoR (assuming no save scumming for max HP).

 

[Null Null]

Agree. DEX will be a big one if you are planning to use the same characters in later games.

9th level spells are really only relevant for casting Meteor Swarm on Rakshasas in Pools of Darkness, though.

 

[DalekFlay]

These were before my time but they look pretty great. GOG versions are tempting me. The Arabian one is especially unique looking and thus tempting as a first go.

 

[octavius]

9th level spells are really only relevant for casting Meteor Swarm on Rakshasas in Pools of Darkness, though.

Yeah, it's a bit sad that the best spells are lvl 7.
Delayed Blast Fireball rules most battlefields, and Power Word: Stun usually is more handy than 9th level Power Word: Kill, and lvl 8 PW: Blind is probably the most useless spell in the history of CRPGs.
Monster Summoning is rather underwhelming as well, as you can't control the who and the where, and only get two monster allies for your trouble.

So 18 INT is maybe not that important for mages.

 

[Doctor Sbaitso]

I would suggest FRUA (Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures) and "game39" module which is a lovingly and faithfully recreated Pool of Radience. You get the enhanced UI that FRUA affords and a few other conveniences. As a side bonus you then have FRUA installed. There are several great modules available.

 

[Lilura]

The problem with the WHDLoad version of PoR is that it takes 80 secs (eighty!) to save a game

I reported this issue to Psygore, who has since improved it: first save still take 20secs, but overwrites are instant.

 

[Lilura]

For the sake of thoroughness the issue has been resolved.

 

[mushaden]

I couldn't bring myself to keep playing Pools of Radiance when I went to a tavern and got the message, "you heard story ###." I'm assuming this means you're supposed look in the manual and read the dialogue? Hit me with the decline ratings, but that's a lot to deal with. Do any of the newer games improve on things like this?

 

[moleman]

All Gold Box games have journal entries.

The Gold Box Companion has them included.

But if looking up an entry is too much for you, you will not enjoy these games.