Wolfenstein: Youngblood - two player co-op with BJ's daughters

[DalekFlay]

Return was the best Wolfenstein.

I replayed it like 6 months ago and it's honestly a little weak in retrospect I feel. Very linear most of the time, weapons don't get interesting until later on, the bosses just kind of waddle around, the sci-fi/fantasy aspects feel a little weak. I still think it's a good game, don't get me wrong, but people acting like it's some masterpiece the Raven and Machinegames sequels haven't lived up to makes me shrug my shoulders a bit. I think nostalgia goggles is a big factor there.

 

[RNGsus]

Return was the best Wolfenstein.

I think nostalgia goggles is a big factor there.

I don't have a pair of those. I like things because they're scientifically better.

 

[Wunderbar]

Return was the best Wolfenstein.

I replayed it like 6 months ago and it's honestly a little weak in retrospect I feel. Very linear most of the time, weapons don't get interesting until later on, the bosses just kind of waddle around, the sci-fi/fantasy aspects feel a little weak. I still think it's a good game, don't get me wrong, but people acting like it's some masterpiece the Raven and Machinegames sequels haven't lived up to makes me shrug my shoulders a bit. I think nostalgia goggles is a big factor there.

RTCW isn't arena shooter, has better level and encounter design, diverse set of environments, better enemy and weapons variety. Not to mention thick occult horror atmosphere. RTCW is superior to NuWolfensteins in pretty much every way, except in obviously graphics, and maybe in gunplay (which wasn't bad, just okay).

NuWolfenstein games - you're locked in some arena and either had to stealth your way through nazis (which is usually very easy since AI is dumb and you can kill any enemy with just one headshot from luger), or forced to fight dozens of them nuDoom-style (except you're fragile and die in a couple of shots, which makes you hide behind covers popamole style). Level design - arenas, environments - boring nazi bases (Old Blood good though). Enemies? Regular nazi, bulletsponge nazi, skeleton robot, supersoldier, big robot, dog robot on Venus.

Spoiler

 

[DalekFlay]

I don't consider them "arena shooters" any more than RTCW would be, and your "atmosphere" complaint is pure nostalgia goggles IMO, so we're probably too far apart to agree here. Doom 2016 is largely an arena shooter though, yes.

 

[RNGsus]

I don't consider them "arena shooters" any more than RTCW would be, and your "atmosphere" complaint is pure nostalgia goggles IMO, so we're probably too far apart to agree here. Doom 2016 is largely an arena shooter though, yes.

That's your fault, quit projecting your battered nostalgia onto me. Return did a fantastic job with tone. I love how the pulp scifi creeps into the game and takes over. Plenty of secrets, good enemy variety as story progressed, weapons felt nice, levels were well designed. The woodsy daytime level allowed for scope and knife the whole way if you were never spotted. It was a clever break from your first crazy shit fight. Also, Nazis are clearly up to no good in Return, but I'm not sure why I would want to fight them in NuWolfenstein.

Clean, White cities? Oh, the horror.

 

[DalekFlay]

The real reasons always come out in the end.

 

[RNGsus]

heh heh nostalgia goggles heh racist

Oh, blow it out your ass, nostalgia isn't a criticism in the first place. If 4 hours of storyfagging interrupted by win-button gunplay tickles your pickle, then by all means play your brave new interactive movie. You aren't the only one who's played Return since 2000-whenever.

 

[DalekFlay]

Oh, blow it out your ass, nostalgia isn't a criticism in the first place. If 4 hours of storyfagging interrupted by win-button gunplay tickles your pickle, then by all means play your brave new interactive movie. You aren't the only one who's played Return since 2000-whenever.

If you can keep your racism in your pants and focus on the story being WAY too much a focus in the game then I'll agree with you. I said that before myself. That and the kind of weak level design are the game's main faults. There's no way you'll ever convince me the combat and weapons are worse than RTCW though, sorry.

 

[Wunderbar]

There's no way you'll ever convince me the combat and weapons are worse than RTCW though, sorry.

combat isn't just a gunplay. Yeah, guns in The New Colossus feel satisfying to shoot, but what about the other parts?
Enemy variety is poor, level design is poor, controls are clunky. BJ stumbles upon every corner, every wooden crate or some other prop. It's a fucking chore to switch between weapons thanks to useless "different weapons in both hand" system.

 

[DalekFlay]

Never had a problem with controls. You just tap a key to start or end dual-wielding, not sure what's weird about that? I used "Q." Never had an issue bumping into stuff, not sure what to tell ya there. Enemy variety... eh maybe, but RTCW isn't really some amazing feat there either. Like I said I agree New Colossus' level design is kind of bland and disjointed, but I thought New Order's and Old Blood's were better. Raven's game I only vaguely remember map design, but it did have good atmosphere and cool weapons. Again I'm not saying RTCW is bad or worse than these games, I just don't think it's the stunning classic that blows away modern shooters in these areas you guys paint it as.

 

[Wunderbar]

It's all about priorities.
RTCW focuses on a gameplay and does it decently.
WTNC prioritizes the story, and fails pretty much everywhere.

 

[Dayyālu]

RTCW isn't directly comparable with NuWolf, they are fairly different creatures. It's like comparing Wolf2009 with NuWolf, apples and oranges.

RTCW has top-tier athmosphere and that's a great thing, there's an entire fuckhuge mod (Blade of Agony for Doom) that apes its athmosphere, probably the best thing it does. RTCW blows out of the water its direct competitors in its age (the later CoD1 and contemporary MoH: Allied Assault: come to me, I'm ready to defend this to the death) thanks to a frankly more interesting set-up and more enemy variety.

RTCW is a Half-Life style game. Weapons up to a point are standard but there's quite a few interesting design choices in there (the Sten overheating, the OSA rifle and its scope, American weaponry giving you more performance but essentially limited ammo, experimental weaponry giving you variety in the end). In design, it's typical of its age and while some levels are great (everyone remembers the Catacombs because , well, thematically awesome and well-designed) some are flat-out boring (particularly towards the end, and the end boss is a complete disgrace, no way around it). Wunderbar , RTCW's has overall limited horror enemies in it. For 90% of the time you fight Nazis and RTCW's AI isn't as reactive as it should be, but the encounter design is usually good enough to mask it properly (in some cases it isn't, for example, the Airport). Plus, the gunplay rewards very fast exchanges with hitscan weaponry minimizing the chances for the AI to fuck up. Boss encounters show the typical crunch, the first one is well-developed with several stages, the second one is similar but they fucked up and planned the arena to give the player easy abuse, and the final boss is entirely meeeh.

Wolf2009 is a victim of the most schizo design I've ever seen. YOU NEED FREE ROAMING YOU NEED POWERS YOU NEED WEAPON UPGRADES YOU NEED POWER UPGRADES YOU NEED DIMENSION TRAVELING YOU NEED OPTIONAL MISSIONS. You can almost feel the devs being shot in the back of their heads by execs screaming to add some new thing. It has a frankly awesome end boss, though, it's hard as hell and well planned. Map design is console-limited and the overmap is blighted by random spawns, but it's normally good. I'd argue that when it shines, Wolf2009 is superior in encounter design to RTCW, by giving you more toys and more variety in enemies. Pity it's a schizo mutant.

Also the Special SS troopers are a lot less hot in Wolf2009.

NuWolf has shit AI (very noticeable) , enemy variety is limited and not even particularly well managed. I, for once, can't remember a single episode of being pleasantly surprised by encounter design in NuWolf: I'll legit admit I found NuDoom far more enjoyable thanks to superior weapon and enemy variety. There's some serious thought put beyond NuDoom's gunplay, even if it's aping Brootal Doom. NuWolf has worse gunplay than effin' Necrovision. Wait, scratch that, I'd replay Necrovision every day over NuWolf: the plot is flat-out retarded, but gameplay wise it does everything better than NuWolf and it's eurojank.

The Old Blood tried to spice things up, but don't tell me you were engaged by the dreadful stealth sections and the zombies felt tired as an enemy. More like an obligation, plus already cringeworthy plot focus (yes, I did find that in The Old Blood to be beyond good taste and akin to exploitation). You know what I'm talking about, DalekFlay .

Haven't played NuWolf2, but from the vids it looks flat-out hysterical. And not in the good sense. You are making a game where you shoot cartoon Nazis, corporate political propaganda feels forced at best, annoying at worst.

End line? Buy Necrovision instead. I'm not joking! It has the most retarded plot ever!

 

[Wunderbar]

Necrovision's gunplay is pretty shit, for 50% of the game you're armed with WW1-era bolt action rifles and it takes two-three shots to kill an enemy soldier. Really frustrating.

 

[GreyViper]

Necrovision's gunplay is pretty shit, for 50% of the game you're armed with WW1-era bolt action rifles and it takes two-three shots to kill an enemy soldier. Really frustrating.

What Necrovision fails in gunplay it makes up in CQC. The shovel and bayonets are a pleasure to use before the second segment of the game.

 

[DalekFlay]

The Old Blood tried to spice things up, but don't tell me you were engaged by the dreadful stealth sections and the zombies felt tired as an enemy.

Mostly just differences of opinion, but I will say I didn't really do stealth in any of the Machine Games entries. You can just treat those commander sections as "kill them ASAP to stop the respawns" and it works just fine. Wolf2 even makes this more obvious and clear to the player, with multiple upgrade trees clearly labeled "stealth," "assault" and whatever the half-and-half one was called. I played all three as run n' gun shooters all the way through, on one step above normal difficulty, with no issues.

 

[Dayyālu]

Necrovision's gunplay is pretty shit, for 50% of the game you're armed with WW1-era bolt action rifles and it takes two-three shots to kill an enemy soldier. Really frustrating.

Even if I wasn't a fanatic of liking a lot bolt-action rifles (and Necrovision has excellent feedback both when you shoot 'em and when you use the bayonet) you get far too soon MGs, shotguns and SMGs for all your variety needs. It has a surprising amount of variety for being set in WW1, after all!

Mostly just differences of opinion, but I will say I didn't really do stealth in any of the Machine Games entries.

How did you skip the dreadful forced Stealth section in TOB with the Ubersoldiers or whatever they are called? It may seem limited, but for example TOB can be summarized with 25% stealth&buttomashingdogs 25% static defense against teh Nazi&power armour 40% zompfies 10% boring end boss battle. And it still has more variety than baseline TNO. Even comparing the weaponry, most of TNO weapons are completely perfunctory bar the LazerGun. TOB suffers even more on that regard.

 

[DalekFlay]

How did you skip the dreadful forced Stealth section in TOB with the Ubersoldiers or whatever they are called?

That's literally the only "forced stealth" in all three games, and even there you can kill one dude and use his minigun thing to kill another one or two, then use their guns, etc...

 

[Wunderbar]

Even if I wasn't a fanatic of liking a lot bolt-action rifles (and Necrovision has excellent feedback both when you shoot 'em and when you use the bayonet) you get far too soon MGs, shotguns and SMGs for all your variety needs. It has a surprising amount of variety for being set in WW1, after all!

yeah, i was using a trench gun the most. Unfortunately, the ammo for trenchgun and MGs wasn't all that abundant and pistols deal pitiful damage. Occasionally i had to use bolt-action rifles, and they were shit due to long TTK and shoddy hit detection.

How did you skip the dreadful forced Stealth section in TOB with the Ubersoldiers or whatever they are called?

that stealth section was short tbh.

Mostly just differences of opinion, but I will say I didn't really do stealth in any of the Machine Games entries. You can just treat those commander sections as "kill them ASAP to stop the respawns" and it works just fine. Wolf2 even makes this more obvious and clear to the player

on higher difficulties you can't just run and gun, you get killed in mere seconds.

 

[Wunderbar]

Even comparing the weaponry, most of TNO weapons are completely perfunctory bar the LazerGun. TOB suffers even more on that regard.

i don't think having small arsenal is a bad thing - every gun is useful in certain cituation.

Huge arsenal is what bugs me about RTCW. Luger is a useless piece of trash since at the very beginning it is easier to just shank nazis in the back and loot MP40. MP40 becomes useless once you get Sten, and then halfway through the campaign you get your hands on FG42 - the best gun in the game.

 

[Dayyālu]

i don't think having small arsenal is a bad thing - every gun is useful in certain cituation.

Huge arsenal is what bugs me about RTCW. Luger is a useless piece of trash since at the very beginning it is easier to just shank nazis in the back and loot MP40. MP40 becomes useless once you get Sten, and then halfway through the campaign you get your hands on FG42 - the best gun in the game.

Progression is a good thing in a SP-focused shooter, and HL-style games favour such a style. Again, gives the player and the designer more toys to play around with to create interesting encounters without having to gift the player too powerful weapons too early or worse, not giving them stuff. Upgrades are a way to solve the problem, but eh, sometimes it's not enough.

The FG42 does everything, that's true, but it gets a free pass for the first time we got the German memeweapon par excellence in a game. It was designed to be everything, let Goering have his glory at least in vydia!

 

[Wunderbar]

i don't think having small arsenal is a bad thing - every gun is useful in certain cituation.
Huge arsenal is what bugs me about RTCW. Luger is a useless piece of trash since at the very beginning it is easier to just shank nazis in the back and loot MP40. MP40 becomes useless once you get Sten, and then halfway through the campaign you get your hands on FG42 - the best gun in the game.

Progression is a good thing in a SP-focused shooter, and HL-style games favour such a style.

yeah, but in HL even glock is still relevant in later levels due to its accuracy and abundant ammunition.

Again, gives the player and the designer more toys to play around with to create interesting encounters without having to gift the player too powerful weapons too early or worse, not giving them stuff. Upgrades are a way to solve the problem, but eh, sometimes it's not enough.

The FG42 does everything, that's true, but it gets a free pass for the first time we got the German memeweapon par excellence in a game. It was designed to be everything, let Goering have his glory at least in vydia!

it's a matter of balance, they should've kept player from using it all the time by maybe limiting mauser ammo.

 

[vortex]

French only

 

[Wunderbar]

Skimmed through it, some thoughts
- RPG elements look deeper than Fallout 4 lol
- Levels look certainly better which is given since Arkane is involved
- Bulletsponge enemies with zero hit reaction until you destroy their armor, shitty
- Hitler pathetically died offscreen? That's shitty, unless Wolfenstein 3 is going to be set before this spinoff (which is still shitty)
- 20 years passed since the last game, and nazis are still using same guns? Except for microuzi for some reason, i guess Uziel Gal was daat yichud member.
- Looks like Machinegames don't know what "gewehr" is. SMG from The New Colossus is suddenly "blitzgewehr", autoshotgun is "kugelgewehr". Why not name pistol "pistolegewehr"?

 

[baud]

Also apparently the difficulty can be set per player, which apparently only change damage taken.
First thing we saw in the streets of Paris is a wall covered by graffiti, except those are readable, unlike IRL
The streets of Paris are reasonably well reproduced; I think it was helped by having a team in France

 

[vortex]

I wonder if we'll see Notre-Dame cathedral in that nazi Paris.