Decline The Great Debate

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Vote on the minimum requirements for a game to be considered a CRPG, and nothing else. Not a sub-genre, like JRPGs or ARPGs, but a true RPG without dispute. I am open to adding suggested criteria not covered in the options of this poll.

Let The Great Debate begin!

 

[Butter]

KingComrade.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

1 - choosing skills/attributes with an opporunity
2 - cumulation of these skills/attributes that are inherent to the character and are hard to change
3 - narrative freedom

There. That's an RPG.

 

[Grauken]

KingComrade.

 

[Transfiguring Roar]

The game being labeled as an RPG by the dev?

 

[moraes]

66. Consider for example the proceedings that we call "games". I mean board-games, card-games, ball-games, Olympic games, and so on. What is common to them all?—Don't say: "There must be something common, or they would not be called 'games' "—but look and see whether there is anything common to all.—For if you look at them you will not see something that is common to all, but similarities, relationships, and a whole series of them at that. To repeat: don't think, but look!—Look for example at board-games, with their multifarious relationships. Now pass to card-games; here you find many correspondences with the first group, but many common features drop out, and others appear. When we pass next to ball-games, much that is common is retained, but much is lost.—Are they all 'amusing'? Compare chess with noughts and crosses. Or is there always winning and losing, or competition between players? Think of patience. In ball games there is winning and losing; but when a child throws his ball at the wall and catches it again, this feature has disappeared. Look at the parts played by skill and luck; and at the difference between skill in chess and skill in tennis. Think now of games like ring-a-ring-a-roses; here is the element of amusement, but how many other characteristic features have disappeared! And we can go through the many, many other groups of games in the same way; can see how similarities crop up and disappear. And the result of this examination is: we see a complicated network of similarities overlapping and criss-crossing: sometimes overall similarities, sometimes similarities of detail.

67. I can think of no better expression to characterize these similarities than "family resemblances"; for the various resemblances between members of a family: build, features, colour of eyes, gait, temperament, etc. etc. overlap and criss-cross in the same way.—And I shall say: 'games' form a family.

 

[Contagium]

Combat, narrative, itemization definitely DON'T matter in a RPG. We're accustomed to fighting in games, but it doesn't mean RPGs can't exist without it.

 

[buffalo bill]

who fucking cares, and I have seen this exact thread dozens of times already

 

[Contagium]

Are RPGs the widest gaming genre?

That question in itself is wide open for interpretation. Generic game tags like "action" or "sports" could be considered much wider, as to be a RPG there has to be some fundamental consistencies.

 

[Gregz]

Proposed exhaustive list of RPG elements

1. Character creation has some form of in-game consequences
2. Statistics which define character(s) abilities are subject to change throughout the game
3. Character(s) have skills or abilities which may improve or be altered over the course of gameplay
4. Character(s) accrue experience which can be spent or result in gaining levels or abilities
5. Character(s) accumulate items in some form of inventory, which the player can actively use (equip, sell, destroy, trade, etc.), which enhance or otherwise alter gameplay
6. Character(s) accumulate currency which may be spent to enhance the character(s) in some way (items, guild membership, training, etc.)
7. Character(s) gain levels throughout the game which result in some form of mechanical change (not just a change in character title, or description)
8. Character(s) are able to explore over terrain, water, space, etc. ('explore' refers to free movement of main character(s))
9. The game has some form of puzzle solving, which is resolved through combat, problem resolution, or some choice made by the player
10. A choice made by the player alters the narrative, or some other significant part of the game (an item is found or lost, stats or skills are gained or lost, different ending, etc.)
11. Character(s) interact with NPCs in some form of dialogue which have in-game consequences depending on what the character(s) say.
12. Optional quests (defined here as some kind of task made available after the game has started, and which can be resolved by the player before the game ends, but is not required to complete the game) are available.

 

[Lady_Error]

What an RPG is essentially:

Having attributes (abilities) that increase as you progress within the game. These attributes should have a big impact on the progression within the game.

 

[EldarEldrad]

Is it the second Great Debate for today? Don't we exceed the limit for greatness already?

 

[Grauken]

You cannot exceed the limit of talking about important topics like what RPGGames are, every noob has to go through this crucible to establish his Kodex Kredits as a serious philosopher on the nature of the decline

 

[thesecret1]

Interesting to see character creation to be considered core by so many. Gothic series didn't feature character creation, yet they definitely are RPGs.

 

[Kliwer]

I have chosen 4 elements:
-character creation
-character development
-combat
-itemization

But, in fact, it is not enough, RPG must have something else, some kind of freedom. It could be achieved in several ways, wchich determine the thype of RPG. For example it could be a game withaut any story and NPC interactions, but with vast world to explore (as a Might and Magic games). Or it could be a game with limited exploration, but also with choices&consequences in story and with oportunities to roleplay in dialogues (as a Planescape Torment). So... for me the minimum is: those 4 elements + 1-2 "freedom factors".

In my opinion the definition of RPG should be quite open. Imagine a closed colletions of features. The game, to qualify as a RPG, should have any combination of at last 50% of those featurs.

 

[RaptorRex888]

Character Creation and Choice and Consequence are the bare minimum requirements to be deemed an RPG.

 

[Grauken]

Character Creation and Choice and Consequence are the bare minimum requirements to be deemed an RPG.

C&C is fluff, nice but not essential

 

[MajorMace]

These thread serve the same purpose as these random tests in magazines.
So it's not totally useless OP, you made me check some boxes.

 

[thesheeep]

I'll just copy my own post from the other topic, since clearly many here are still confused:

----- Waterproof definition of an RPG -----
RPG:
1) The outcome of an action is not determined by (physical) player skill, but by the character's stats (+RNG often).
2) There needs to be some kind of character growth/levelup/stat increase/etc.
3) You actually have to be a tangible character in the game, and the act of playing that character is the main drive of the game. Player and "avatar(s)" must be inseparable.
-----------------------------------------------

1+2) is kind of the baseline here. If this is not given, your game is simply not an RPG in any shape or form.
3) is needed to differentiate RPGs from "simple" simulations and strategy/tactics games like XCOM/JA/etc. in which you control characters - and they are completely stat driven, might even level up -, but you aren't (usually) one of them. Instead you are some kind of invisible "manager" figure with no stats of your own.
It is also needed to differentiate RPGs from something like Crusader Kings, which undoubtedly has RPG parts, but so much of the gameplay isn't even bound to your current character that it becomes a hybrid (of many things). Same thing with The Sims, which actually seems damn close to a pure RPG at first glance, but you aren't really a character here, instead more of a god-like figure with a voyeuristic interest in that character, as proven by the fact that you remain at some place while your character can be off somewhere entirely else.

Story? Irrelevant. Many RPGs don't even have a story (or it doesn't matter at all for the gameplay).
Character creation? Irrelevant. Many RPGs just give you a predefined char, and as long as that one "grows" in stats... Your ability to identify with a character doesn't matter for any genre definition.
Combat? Irrelevant. While most RPGs use their stats mostly for combat, it is by no means required.

Except for (what do you mean with total/partial?) abstraction of action and some form of character development, all your listed points are irrelevant for being an RPG. They certainly matter for certain sub-genres, but not for the "one to rule them all".

In my opinion the definition of RPG should be quite open. Imagine a closed colletions of features. The game, to qualify as a RPG, should have any combination of at last 50% of those featurs.

That is an entirely useless definition.
Definitions must be clear, strict and exclusive, otherwise they are worthless buzzwords - which is how most devs/players/"journalists" use them, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be better than that.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

Romances is essential for a RPG

 

[thesheeep]

Romances is essential for a RPG

Only if preceded by the characters engaging in song and dance prior.

 

[North Gibraltarian Dog]

What is an rpg? You say while you fix
your blue pupil on mine
What's is an rpg? And it’s you who ask me?
Rpg… is you.

Spoiler

http://www.cervantesvirtual.com/portales/ver_la_poesia/709110_what_is_poetry/

 

[RaptorRex888]

By 'C&C' you're probably referring to the bullshit modern utilisation whereby the choice is between two equally inane dialogues or decisions that ultimately lead to the same conclusion with one sentence from an NPC altered. True Choice and Consequence is seeing the impact of your character skills, attributes, backstory etc, influencing how you play the game both mechanically and/or through the story. True C&C will place limitations on your playstyle, rather than the bullshit "You can do anything/everything!" attitude that permeates most modern 'RPG's'.

 

[MajorMace]

By 'C&C' you're probably referring to the bullshit modern utilisation whereby the choice is between two equally inane dialogues or decisions that ultimately lead to the same conclusion with one sentence from an NPC altered. True Choice and Consequence is seeing the impact of your character skills, attributes, backstory etc, influencing how you play the game both mechanically and/or through the story. True C&C will place limitations on your playstyle, rather than the bullshit "You can do anything/everything!" attitude that permeates most modern 'RPG's'.

Why would he mean fake c&c ?
Why wouldn't he mean fake character progression etc then ?

Great thread to expose combatfags and storyfags alike by the way.

 

[RaptorRex888]

Too bad there isn't a way to oust mewling fence-sitters.