The importance of (or lack thereof) "downtime" in RPGs

[laclongquan]

Define: Down Time.

IN Icewind Dale2, down time is carrying loot back to shops to sell for money to buy stuffs.

In Baldur's Gate, down time is running around talking to get quests.

In Neverwinter Nights 2OC down time is above plus crafting.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Neanderthal]

Well you all know what games I'm going to cite as being excellent in this regard: The Ultimas.

In talking, socialising, drinking, eating, working and trading with the folk of Britannia the Avatar came to know them, and gained a reason for his heroics, rather than simply following because BUT THOU MUST, the hero wanted to help and save the good people who he knew and lived alongside.

The Witcher has a little of this in Geralts concern and socialising with his friends, adopted family and associates, it gives him a solid base to stand upon in a shifting and fairly shitty world.

A charming and likeable locale should be far more than just a mission hub or painted background, it should be a living, breathing presence in the game that does not revolve around the PC. Sigil, Britannia, Vizima, Tarant, these are what devs should aim for.

 

[Generic-Giant-Spider]

Kingdom management in Kingmaker had lots of potential, I wish they kept on track with the more political maneuvering part of it or trying to prevent revolts and such. As it stands it is probably the weakest part about the game as a whole, and it feels more like something you demote to being background noise but if they used that as a way to deal with issues within your barony without it being heavily menu based with "send this party member to this place and come back in 14 days" it'd be a lot more engaging.

The thing that can suck about downtime is when you know it's purely downtime. I'd like it more if the downtime is used in a clever manner that still keeps you engaged throughout.

 

[Daedalos]

I play RPGs to go on big adventures, slay monsters, betray people, murder, and feel powerful.

Not to gossip about how the harvest has been really kind this season at the local tavern. Grindy boring dialogue and conversation does not belong in a crpg. In PnP maybe, but never in crpgs.

Also, if you lead a fairly busy life irl, you don't really want or have time to spend time in your favourite game doing basically banal stuff.

We have also seen time and time again, that trying to implement all kinds of silly mechanics and non activities in rpgs will worsen the game, because it takes away resources

 

[Falksi]

Dragon Age:Origins camp time was great. Just chilling with your crew, having a laugh, trying to fuck a few of them etc.

Geat music too.

 

[Zep Zepo]

Pathetic attempt to try and remain relevant after recent meltdown.

Zep--

 

[Lemming42]

I don't know what downtime really means. In almost all modern (late 90s onwards) RPGs, you already spend a shitton of time walking around towns or in converastion with people.

 

[glass blackbird]

I don't know what downtime really means. In almost all modern (late 90s onwards) RPGs, you already spend a shitton of time walking around towns or in converastion with people.

Not in Blackguards!

 

[luj1]

We have seen time and time again, that trying to implement all kinds of silly mechanics and activities in rpgs will worsen the game

That's how you get these single player MMOs

 

[Swigen]

Downtime in Red Dead Redemption 2 put many good RPGs to shame and the genre could take a lesson or two from it. Good times fishing, hunting with companions, walking around your camp just being a cunt to everyone, good times.

“Jack! What a kid! Father’s not much though!”

Depends on the game though. In some of these Japanese blobbers when they start with the visual novel style character development scenes I kinda just want them to shut the fuck up.

 

[Master]

The only time i can think of this is the 4th chapter of The Witcher 1 (that wedding).
And going back to base in DX is similar.
As someone mentioned, in rpgs you can make your own 'downtime' whenever. So it seems it has to be forced by the developer, like when you loose all your gear, start in a completely new area etc.

 

[Neanderthal]

We have seen time and time again, that trying to implement all kinds of silly mechanics and activities in rpgs will worsen the game

That's how you get these single player MMOs

Don't think anybody asked for blatant busywork tasks in any game ever, rather than that I'd like well crafted world building, interesting content and unique personalities.

Just a bit of a break from the arpg side, after all if they could do it a quarter century past surely it should be piss easy now. Then again I don't fucking care about a devs limited resources or any other excuses, that's their business, I just want a good game for my money.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Enderal has this. There's both certain parts of the game where you just go relax and have conversations with NPCs in places like taverns, and you can take a break just to go see what NPCs are doing. I spent hours just wandering around Ark(main city) exploring and talking to NPCs without any combat at all.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

The only time i can think of this is the 4th chapter of The Witcher 1 (that wedding).
And going back to base in DX is similar.
As someone mentioned, in rpgs you can make your own 'downtime' whenever. So it seems it has to be forced by the developer, like when you loose all your gear, start in a completely new area etc.

Witcher 3 has quite a bit of it depending on what you consider downtime. Most of it was (IMO) the highlights of the game.
e.g., getting drunk at kaer morhen, or the wedding thing with Shani in Hearts of Stone.

 

[undecaf]

I suppose, if the "downtime" had an in game purpose and function of some sort, that if it's not just taking a null break from killing everything that moves and exhausting all the dialog lines from every NPC and finding all the towns lost family heirlooms from the nearby caves and so on, it might actually have some interesting mechanical prospects to it if given some creativity.

To ask questions like "What would "downtime" do to the character that helps the gameplay experience, what does it add to the game?" and "How would "downtime" keep the player interested, what would it need to contain?"

If the player goes to a library to read some books, what would getting educated add to the character? Or if he plays solitaire, what would logical problem solving add to the character? If writes something or paints something or plays an instrument, what would creativity add to the character? And how could all that be utilized in the game for the benefit of the experience?

I think that while such prospects might sound banal on the outset, it's ultimately an interesting question (especially if one thinks about them not as isolated activities that alone mean nothing, but as ones that belong to the experience as a whole and make a difference). In all likelyhood not an easy matter to solve either, but...anyway.

 

[Swigen]

The purpose ‘aughtta be to increase emotional investment in the story and make you care about hurting or helping the characters therein but it’s gotta be done well and with logical context. Funny thing about Final Fantasy 15 was it seemed to have a lot of downtime and character / party interaction but the way people in your party acted didn’t make any fucking sense. Like how everyone was mad at Noctis when Ignis went blind or when Jared died and everyone was sad and you didn’t give a shit ‘cause who the fuck is Jared?

 

[sputtering fart balloon]

*muffled Fallout 4 noises in the distance*


Ahem
I-It is of course, worthless popamole

 

[luj1]

Enderal has this... I spent hours just wandering... exploring and talking to NPCs without any combat at all.

Yeah Enderal

.... let's keep mystifying this amazing "concept" which exists in every game. Dumbass.

 

[Ranselknulf]

Designing fluff and downtime elements to an RPG is a fine thing. The problem is the majority of players never use those fluff elements so eventually developers stopped making them.

Some of my favorite non-MMO downtime elements are mini-games, puzzles, combat simulators or tournaments (depending on setting), and of course gambling.

MMORPG's are a completely different element and designers have found a way to monetize those fluff elements. The reason people in MMO's need those elements more is because of the massive and boring grind. That is a different discussion though.

 

[Background Character]

AYE MATE THE IMPORTANT THING IS NOT HAVING IT IF I HAVE TO ORGANIZE THAT FUCKING KINGDOM ONE MORE TIME

 

[CallMeSnek]

It's a hard problem. Naturally then, JRPGs often bungle this.

Outside of battle, Final Fantasy X and XIII is nothing but the characters asking themselves "Uh, what if what we're doing is actually retarded? Oh well!" - again and again and again. And occasionally losing at drownball.

Tales games love to interrupt everything every hour on the dot with mandatory review of plot points that just occurred 5 minutes ago. Even if you were able to convince your friends to play some mindless jrpg battles with you, you'd have a hell of a time getting them to sit through all that god-awful padding. And the side-quest design is abysmal - apparently by design.

Trails is pretty cool in this regard. A lot of constantly changing unique npc dialogue. Probably too much, to be honest; I got seriously bored of it. For some reason, I have more tolerance for mindless rpg battles than npc chatter - even when it's relatively well-developed. But that's just me; I'm not a small-talk guy.

So my least favorite part of JRPGs is when they start talking. I think one of the best things Dark Souls did was popularizing shutting the fuck up.


Dark Cloud 2 had some great in-between stuff: town-building, fishing, golf, photography... Too bad the whole game was ultimately a hodgepodge of half-baked ideas. With more polish, it could've been truly great.

Bioware's dialogue writing is great, and optional! That's how you do it right. Good lore writing too.

Morrowind gameplay was good downtime between tweaking my hundreds of mods and astoundingly cpu-intensive settings. A little more seriously though, the world-building is great; it really feels like the whole game is just a context for the fascinating world to exist in. I loved settling down in some temple, reading the texts and wondering how true they really were. It all sounded so crazy, but in such a magical world, anything could be possible.

 

[Neanderthal]

Bioware's dialogue writing is great, and optional! That's how you do it right. Good lore writing too.

 

[CallMeSnek]

Bioware's dialogue writing is great, and optional! That's how you do it right. Good lore writing too.

Admittedly, it's actually been a really long time since I last played a Bioware game; so I may be remembering things badly.

 

[Tweed]

Good downtime: healing wounded party members/teammates quickly, gathering valuable information, getting background on interesting party members, playing rewarding minigames, and chilling in my cool and useful house.

Bad downtime: having to wait hours for wounded members to heal, getting worthless information, getting background on poorly written characters I couldn't care less about, playing pointless minigames, and chilling in my house full of worthless props.

Unforgivable: Forcing me to chill in my house full of worthless props.