Saravan
Savant
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2019
- Messages
- 926
So this is strictly regarding video games and not table-top combat systems for RPG:s.
Most discussions regarding RPG combat systems for video games seem to fall under RtwP or TB combat systems. The former attempting to strike a fair balance between dynamic (action oriented) style of combat rewarding reflexes and quick tactical thinking with strategic planning for encounters. The latter, TB combat system puts all its focus on tactical and strategical thinking as you are not required to think quickly in encounters (unless there is a turn timer).
I think both of these combat systems are good when implemented well and the game design takes into account one type of combat system from the ground-up rather than trying to provide options for both styles as typically a game would suffer from that. A typical example is if a game is originally designed for RtwP (like for example PoE 2) but then introduces TB as an option. The problem you often get there is that the game includes so many trivial encounters "trash mobs" that the TB option becomes cumbersome for the player. The pace of the game is often simply too slow to properly accommodate TB combat system.
Another issue is that sometimes certain stats become obsolete in a TB system originally crafted for RtwP. Once more, taking PoE 2 as an example, there is no need to care about dexterity in a TB combat system, aside from covering more distance in the movement phase, as everyone can only perform one or two actions per turn anyways whilst in RtwP an increase in dexterity increases action speed and therefore you can more quickly perform your actions in real time.
An alternative to the above two systems is something inspired by the combat system of the Dark Souls series but with a larger emphasizes on the abilities, stats and other skills of the character in order to strike a fair and interesting balance between the strengths in a "traditional cRPG" with dynamic combat flow of Dark Souls. To me, if such a system is done well, would be the most engaging and entertaining RPG combat out of them all.
To further clarify, a Dark Souls inspired combat system rewards players who are reactive to their environments and are able to dodge and attack when the opportunity presents itself in the game. This of course immediately comes into conflict with the RtwP/TB combat systems that don't allow you, as a player, to physically dodge attacks but instead calculate these sort of combat events through defensive stats such as armor, resistance, evasion, etc. The RtwP/TB system naturally therefore provides larger complexity to the character build because if all of those stats are simply negated to reward a dodge performed solely by the "player skill" rather than the "character skill", then those stats become obsolete. Dark Souls tries to circumvent this issue by stating that if you wear more heavier gear, you dodge slower or at less distance (e.g. "fat rolls") but in return your armor is higher so if you do get hit you take less damage. The issue with Dark Souls however is that, from my experience, almost always is it better to ensure you can dodge more effectively and not take any damage in the first place.
But what if you maintain the action-oriented combat style of Dark Souls but still try to maintain the relevance of all those different statistics that makes up for a deep combat system typically found in good RtwP and/or TB RPG:s? For example - if you do get hit by an attack - it still takes into account all of those different types of defensive stats to determine the damage done? Could you further extend this to class builds, items and stats taking a larger role in the outcome of battles, whilst still having that entertaining Dark Souls type of combat? Can you go even further and include archetypical RPG roles for combat such as tanks, healers and damage dealers whilst still having that action oriented style of combat in a video game?
Would this make for an interesting and deep RPG combat system or do you simply have to settle for one or the other?
TL: DR version - A better alternative to RtwP and TB combat systems for an RPG would be a Dark Souls-inspired combat system but with more emphasis on character class build, stats, abilities, skills and items that make up the traditional RPG combat. Do you agree or are there flaws to this option?
Most discussions regarding RPG combat systems for video games seem to fall under RtwP or TB combat systems. The former attempting to strike a fair balance between dynamic (action oriented) style of combat rewarding reflexes and quick tactical thinking with strategic planning for encounters. The latter, TB combat system puts all its focus on tactical and strategical thinking as you are not required to think quickly in encounters (unless there is a turn timer).
I think both of these combat systems are good when implemented well and the game design takes into account one type of combat system from the ground-up rather than trying to provide options for both styles as typically a game would suffer from that. A typical example is if a game is originally designed for RtwP (like for example PoE 2) but then introduces TB as an option. The problem you often get there is that the game includes so many trivial encounters "trash mobs" that the TB option becomes cumbersome for the player. The pace of the game is often simply too slow to properly accommodate TB combat system.
Another issue is that sometimes certain stats become obsolete in a TB system originally crafted for RtwP. Once more, taking PoE 2 as an example, there is no need to care about dexterity in a TB combat system, aside from covering more distance in the movement phase, as everyone can only perform one or two actions per turn anyways whilst in RtwP an increase in dexterity increases action speed and therefore you can more quickly perform your actions in real time.
An alternative to the above two systems is something inspired by the combat system of the Dark Souls series but with a larger emphasizes on the abilities, stats and other skills of the character in order to strike a fair and interesting balance between the strengths in a "traditional cRPG" with dynamic combat flow of Dark Souls. To me, if such a system is done well, would be the most engaging and entertaining RPG combat out of them all.
To further clarify, a Dark Souls inspired combat system rewards players who are reactive to their environments and are able to dodge and attack when the opportunity presents itself in the game. This of course immediately comes into conflict with the RtwP/TB combat systems that don't allow you, as a player, to physically dodge attacks but instead calculate these sort of combat events through defensive stats such as armor, resistance, evasion, etc. The RtwP/TB system naturally therefore provides larger complexity to the character build because if all of those stats are simply negated to reward a dodge performed solely by the "player skill" rather than the "character skill", then those stats become obsolete. Dark Souls tries to circumvent this issue by stating that if you wear more heavier gear, you dodge slower or at less distance (e.g. "fat rolls") but in return your armor is higher so if you do get hit you take less damage. The issue with Dark Souls however is that, from my experience, almost always is it better to ensure you can dodge more effectively and not take any damage in the first place.
But what if you maintain the action-oriented combat style of Dark Souls but still try to maintain the relevance of all those different statistics that makes up for a deep combat system typically found in good RtwP and/or TB RPG:s? For example - if you do get hit by an attack - it still takes into account all of those different types of defensive stats to determine the damage done? Could you further extend this to class builds, items and stats taking a larger role in the outcome of battles, whilst still having that entertaining Dark Souls type of combat? Can you go even further and include archetypical RPG roles for combat such as tanks, healers and damage dealers whilst still having that action oriented style of combat in a video game?
Would this make for an interesting and deep RPG combat system or do you simply have to settle for one or the other?
TL: DR version - A better alternative to RtwP and TB combat systems for an RPG would be a Dark Souls-inspired combat system but with more emphasis on character class build, stats, abilities, skills and items that make up the traditional RPG combat. Do you agree or are there flaws to this option?