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Baldur's Gate Baldur's Gate 3 Pre-Release Thread [EARLY ACCESS RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Dodo1610

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DAO's greatest strength was the origins system, which affects most conversations in some way and even leads to different endings giving you the illusion that the world reacts to your grey warden's race. DAO offers lots of C&C with multiple solutions even for minor quests. Aside from that, it was well made had likeable companions and managed to present it's bland save the world from Orcs Darkspawn rather well. The downsides are a weak character, system and a severe lack of interesting fights.

DAO was the attempt at trying to mix old school RPG depth with (at the time) modern RPG presentation. BG3 apparently wants to do the same but this time without throwing away DND like Bioware.
 

Lawntoilet

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DAO was the attempt at trying to mix old school RPG depth with (at the time) modern RPG presentation. BG3 apparently wants to do the same but this time without throwing away DND like Bioware.
BG3 is only keeping the name and still throwing out swathes of the D&D mechanics, from what Swen has indicated so far.
 

Cryomancer

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DAO was the attempt at trying to mix old school RPG depth with (at the time) modern RPG presentation. BG3 apparently wants to do the same but this time without throwing away DND like Bioware.
BG3 is only keeping the name and still throwing out swathes of the D&D mechanics, from what Swen has indicated so far.

Yes, is like Jay "fuck that loser" Wilson with Diablo. HE criticized everything about D2 despite saying that D2 was an amazing game and the result was an game with more WoW-like bullshit(cooldown, stat linked towards gear, everyone at level cap and level cap meaning nothing, etc), so considering his quotes, i an expecting a lot of D:OS bullshit.
 

Yosharian

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DAO was the attempt at trying to mix old school RPG depth with (at the time) modern RPG presentation. BG3 apparently wants to do the same but this time without throwing away DND like Bioware.
BG3 is only keeping the name and still throwing out swathes of the D&D mechanics, from what Swen has indicated so far.

Yes, is like Jay "fuck that loser" Wilson with Diablo. HE criticized everything about D2 despite saying that D2 was an amazing game and the result was an game with more WoW-like bullshit(cooldown, stat linked towards gear, everyone at level cap and level cap meaning nothing, etc), so considering his quotes, i an expecting a lot of D:OS bullshit.
What's the source on Jay Wilson criticizing D2 like that? I'm curious

And what's the link between Jay Wilson and Swen?
 
Last edited:

Lawntoilet

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DAO was the attempt at trying to mix old school RPG depth with (at the time) modern RPG presentation. BG3 apparently wants to do the same but this time without throwing away DND like Bioware.
BG3 is only keeping the name and still throwing out swathes of the D&D mechanics, from what Swen has indicated so far.

Yes, is like Jay "fuck that loser" Wilson with Diablo. HE criticized everything about D2 despite saying that D2 was an amazing game and the result was an game with more WoW-like bullshit(cooldown, stat linked towards gear, everyone at level cap and level cap meaning nothing, etc), so considering his quotes, i an expecting a lot of D:OS bullshit.
What's the source on Jay Wilson criticizing D2 like that? I'm curious
Dave Brevik (creator of D1 and D2) said D3 "wasn't the game I would've designed" and Jay Wilson said "fuck that loser"
https://www.cinemablend.com/games/D...ls-Diablo-2-Designer-Fans-F-ck-Off-45895.html
 

Yosharian

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DAO was the attempt at trying to mix old school RPG depth with (at the time) modern RPG presentation. BG3 apparently wants to do the same but this time without throwing away DND like Bioware.
BG3 is only keeping the name and still throwing out swathes of the D&D mechanics, from what Swen has indicated so far.

Yes, is like Jay "fuck that loser" Wilson with Diablo. HE criticized everything about D2 despite saying that D2 was an amazing game and the result was an game with more WoW-like bullshit(cooldown, stat linked towards gear, everyone at level cap and level cap meaning nothing, etc), so considering his quotes, i an expecting a lot of D:OS bullshit.
What's the source on Jay Wilson criticizing D2 like that? I'm curious
Dave Brevik (creator of D1 and D2) said D3 "wasn't the game I would've designed" and Jay Wilson said "fuck that loser"
https://www.cinemablend.com/games/D...ls-Diablo-2-Designer-Fans-F-ck-Off-45895.html
That isn't Jay criticizing D2.

I am referring to the following sentence: "HE criticized everything about D2" I didn't know that Jay criticized D2 directly so I'm looking for a source on that.
 

Cryomancer

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DAO was the attempt at trying to mix old school RPG depth with (at the time) modern RPG presentation. BG3 apparently wants to do the same but this time without throwing away DND like Bioware.
BG3 is only keeping the name and still throwing out swathes of the D&D mechanics, from what Swen has indicated so far.

Yes, is like Jay "fuck that loser" Wilson with Diablo. HE criticized everything about D2 despite saying that D2 was an amazing game and the result was an game with more WoW-like bullshit(cooldown, stat linked towards gear, everyone at level cap and level cap meaning nothing, etc), so considering his quotes, i an expecting a lot of D:OS bullshit.
What's the source on Jay Wilson criticizing D2 like that? I'm curious

And what's the link between Jay Wilson and Swen?

Is a very long video but here you can see why he did all decisions



Jumping few parts, i believe that he criticized :
Gearing at 11 min
Potions at 18m
An overall of chances at 27m
Skills at 30 min

I just skipped almost all the video. Din't re listened to everything.

But is no different than "baldur's gate is one of the best RPG's, except by missing, by leveling, by spell slots<<insert things on future interviews>>>"

PS > an interesting comment from

wuldntuliktono ptb 2 years ago "you can tell he never played d2 bc he thinks only sorcs can teleport and barbarians had to use leap..."
 

Agame

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Insert Title Here
I am referring to the following sentence: "HE criticized everything about D2" I didn't know that Jay criticized D2 directly so I'm looking for a source on that.

Dude, just look at D3, its built on the premise that D2 was bad and the almighty Jay "Fuck that loser" Wilson would change everything to make it a superior game.

Kind of similar to Sawyers "I can make a better D&D", and look where that ended up.
 
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DAO combat was decent, and it had enough trappings of a proper RPG, at a time when every other RPG seemed to be made just along a completely different set of systems & philosophy. It was essentially like playing BG2/Arcanum and then not getting to play any RPGs for about 8 years - so "oh god, there's a party I can control", and "oh wow, elemental environmental interaction finally", "Oh wow thieves aren't useless in melee", was all pretty refreshing.

Now, well, it's a bit quaint to go back and see how dual-wielding thieves do about 8 million damage per second by spamming MMO-y abilities, for example.
There are a shit ton of problems with DA:O that go far beyond the fine-tuning of damage values.
For example the fact that every single enemy in the game can be fought basically with the same strategy. It doesn't matter it it's elementals, werewolves or undead, some combinations of spell and abilities will just work on everyone, even when they shouldn't (i.e. the fear effect working on undead is a textbook example).
Aside for that, the game had dreadfully boring encounter design with little to no variety, dull itemization (but there's been worse in this area, admittedly), parts that drag forever, level scaling and a long series of other minor issues.

It beat Risen and Knights of the Chalice.
I'd pick Risen over DA:O any day.
Then again I'd pick Risen 1 over plenty of other titles, all things considered.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
DAO combat was decent, and it had enough trappings of a proper RPG, at a time when every other RPG seemed to be made just along a completely different set of systems & philosophy. It was essentially like playing BG2/Arcanum and then not getting to play any RPGs for about 8 years - so "oh god, there's a party I can control", and "oh wow, elemental environmental interaction finally", "Oh wow thieves aren't useless in melee", was all pretty refreshing.

Now, well, it's a bit quaint to go back and see how dual-wielding thieves do about 8 million damage per second by spamming MMO-y abilities, for example.
There are a shit ton of problems with DA:O that go far beyond the fine-tuning of damage values.
For example the fact that every single enemy in the game can be fought basically with the same strategy. It doesn't matter it it's elementals, werewolves or undead, some combinations of spell and abilities will just work on everyone, even when they shouldn't (i.e. the fear effect working on undead is a textbook example).
Aside for that, the game had dreadfully boring encounter design with little to no variety, dull itemization (but there's been worse in this area, admittedly), parts that drag forever, level scaling and a long series of other minor issues.

It beat Risen and Knights of the Chalice.
I'd pick Risen over DA:O any day.
Then again I'd pick Risen 1 over plenty of other titles, all things considered.

Yes, Risen is better, but it's a budget ARPG. Knights of the Chalice is better, too, but it's a retro throwback to Dark Sun more than anything else. DA:O was a big budget AAA RPG that looked great and played enough like Baldur's Gate that it scratched the same itch, albeit not as well. God knows it had much better combat than KOTOR or Jade Empire, which are probably the best comparisons.

DA:O's execution is often deeply flawed, but at the time I was grateful that even bothered to try.
 
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Yes, Risen is better, but it's a budget ARPG. Knights of the Chalice is better, too, but it's a retro throwback to Dark Sun more than anything else. DA:O was a big budget AAA RPG that looked great and played enough like Baldur's Gate that it scratched the same itch, albeit not as well. God knows it had much better combat than KOTOR or Jade Empire, which are probably the best comparisons.

DA:O's execution is often deeply flawed, but at the time I was grateful that even bothered to try.
I don't disagree.
That's why I didn't hate DA:O and I always hoped it would be just the stepping stone to build better games over with the sequels (nevermind we know how that turned out, in hindsight).

But it's an entirely different thing to claim it was a fully accomplished classic and it borders into DELUSION to suggest it's some golden standard that Baldur's Gate 3 should strive to match.
Especially since Larian already did better than that with the two Original Sin games.
 

Rpguy

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Pathfinder: Wrath
BG1, BG2 and many other games mess up the basic rules like spell slots, experience and to hit chance. They throw XP at you for completing quests to turbo level your party, they make the 1st level easier by things like a tutorial with super weak monsters or prevent you from dieing in 1 hit. Knights of the chalice changed the way spell slots work for cleric and wizard ( to be like sorcerer) etc. So what Swen talks about is not going to be unique to BG3 it is the standard and it does not mean the game can't be like DOS or BG1/2
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
and it borders into DELUSION to suggest it's some golden standard that Baldur's Gate 3 should strive to match.
Especially since Larian already did better than that with the two Original Sin games.

You misunderstand why people are saying this. It's not because DA:O is some classic that's worth aspiring to. It's because Larian is spending so much money on this thing that it's obviously going to be heavily casualized, or how else will they turn a profit? DA:O is the best example of a big budget CRPG that still plays like an RPG, not an action game. That's all. More likely it will be a Larian action RPG.

That said, the people saying this generally did not enjoy either Original Sin, either because Larian's writing is awful or because the combat was gimmicky and repetitive, and the loot made me want to shoot myself. I have no problem saying Origins, for all its flaws, is better than anything Larian's ever made, but then I've never liked Larian since I played Beyond Divinity back in the day.

Edit:
BG1, BG2 and many other games mess up the basic rules like spell slots, experience and to hit chance. They throw XP at you for completing quests to turbo level your party, they make the 1st level easier by things like a tutorial with super weak monsters or prevent you from dieing in 1 hit. Knights of the chalice changed the way spell slots work for cleric and wizard ( to be like sorcerer) etc. So what Swen talks about is not going to be unique to BG3 it is the standard and it does not mean the game can't be like DOS or BG1/2

Even forgetting everything Swen has said, the game's budget is what means it can't be like D:OS or either Baldur's Gate. They have a team of 300 people! They've been working on it for more than two years. That costs. The only assumption we're making when we say BG3 won't play like a traditional CRPG is the assumption that Larian is a profit-seeking entity and thus wants to make money. Maybe Swen wants to make another turn based game or a RTwP game, but you know what he wants even more? Not to go bankrupt. Given how much Larian's spent so far on this project (which he's self publishing!), those two goals are mutually exclusive.
 
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underrail expeditions, kangmaker roguelike mode, solasta, colony ship, etc. lot of fun stuff in the pipelines.

fuck sellout swen and his spell slots/missing rolls are bad mindset.

remember true incline is coming from small studios not sjw infested bloathouses like Larian...
 
Last edited:
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You misunderstand why people are saying this. It's not because DA:O is some classic that's worth aspiring to. It's because Larian is spending so much money on this thing that it's obviously going to be heavily casualized, or how else will they turn a profit? DA:O is the best example of a big budget CRPG that still plays like an RPG, not an action game. That's all. More likely it will be a Larian action RPG.
Well, i guess we'll live and see.
My guess, currently, is that you people are making A LOT of incredibly dumb assumptions, bordering into hysterical paranoia.
It's honestly comical how most of you are automatically turning "Swen isn't confirming anything" into "Swen is basically confirming [worst case scenario for every single feature]".


That said, the people saying this generally did not enjoy either Original Sin, either because Larian's writing is awful or because the combat was gimmicky and repetitive, and the loot made me want to shoot myself. I have no problem saying Origins, for all its flaws, is better than anything Larian's ever made, but then I've never liked Larian since I played Beyond Divinity back in the day.
I can only agree on the dreadful itemization (and I have several complaints on the progression system as well), but beside that we fundamentally disagree.
For all its flaws, DA:O is garbage compared to both D:OS 1 and 2 (with all their flaws. too). It plays worse, it has worse encounter design, worse combat mechanics, worse enemy variety, worse environmental interaction, parts that drag WAY more than they should, etc. Not to mention half of the world map is fucking brown muddy ground.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Well, i guess we'll live and see.
My guess, currently, is that you people are making A LOT of incredibly dumb assumptions, bordering into hysterical paranoia.
It's honestly comical how most of you are automatically turning "Swen isn't confirming anything" into "Swen is basically confirming [worst case scenario for every single feature]".

It’s not about his statements at all, not really. It’s 100% about the money. They’ve had 200 people working on this for the first two years in some of the most expensive cities in the world, now they have 300 people. Show me a TB or RTwP RPG that had a team that big and I’ll change my mind.
 
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They have a team of 300 people!
And how many people worked on BG2? check the credits.
As full time developers? Probably less than a third of that number.

Still, the assumption that since "they are 300 people!" this should suggest without any hesitation what sort of game it will be sounds dumb to me, especially in the recent years where more and more devs should have learned at their own expenses how many of their assumptions about what make a game/genre popular were wrong.
 

Rpguy

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Pathfinder: Wrath
SV: We're in production. This is the biggest RPG we've ever made, so our team is now over 200 people internally and together with all the externals, we're heading over 300 people. It's a very big production. It's the biggest that we've ever done.

That is not 300 developers, 300 is including voice actors, game testers etc.
 

DalekFlay

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Still, the assumption that since "they are 300 people!" this should suggest without any hesitation what sort of game it will be sounds dumb to me, especially in the recent years where more and more devs should have learned at their own expenses how many of their assumptions about what make a game/genre popular were wrong.

No one's saying we know what kind of game it will be because of the team size. We're saying we know what kind of game it WON'T be, i.e. Pillars of Eternity.
 

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