Kenshi - open-ended sandbox RPG set in a desert world

[mondblut]

"games as a service" means that we haven't got complete products anymore, we've been playing betas for years, sometimes alphas even (underworld ascendant anyone?).

On the positive side, the fanboys get to celebrate that the game is "alive" and "not abandoned", yay.

sorry milord if i happen to prefer whole, complete, working products over "i shat this, stuff it in your mouth and shut up".

Ditto. I already learned to ignore games that can't stop spamming patches and DLCs until the developers get fed up with milking that cow and move over to the next one.

But, you know what? It's up to the developer alone to decide when his game is "complete". I might think that Civilization IV is incomplete because it lacks the ability to jump into the tank and grind those pesky enemy archers under tracks in glorious first person mode, but nobody gives a fuck and nobody should. If you don't like what the developer has completed, don't play it, duh.

 

[curry]

I highly recommend Living World if you want a mod that adds reactivity and flavour without going apeshit like Reactive World

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

But, you know what? It's up to the developer alone to decide when his game is "complete". I might think that Civilization IV is incomplete because it lacks the ability to jump into the tank and grind those pesky enemy archers under tracks in glorious first person mode, but nobody gives a fuck and nobody should. If you don't like what the developer has completed, don't play it, duh.

that'd be pretty nonsense, civ4 is ancient. but while kenshi is still lacking features and drowning in bugs we get the devs "you know guys? we got enough money to make another game so feel free to fuck off". in this paid beta testing culture that is considered a dick move.

 

[mondblut]

but while kenshi is still lacking features

What features exactly and who entitled you to decide what kind of features someone else's game must or must not lack?

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

I wish they would just make entire new maps every now and then. No need to update any systems or anything. Same races, building, survival etc... but just different maps with new areas to explore and maybe some new factions/monsters for new games.

This is like the perfect game to me but my only problem is that once you've explored the map it feels kinda 'finished'. No need to make a whole new engine or game or whatever they're doing, I'd pay $20 for a new map or two every now and then

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

but while kenshi is still lacking features

What features exactly and who entitled you to decide what kind of features someone else's game must or must not lack?

slavery? just to name one. "look! look! we have slavery! look! you can totally enslave people!" but you actually can't. most of the times buying slaves is a money sink, there's no way to buy a decent slave, the only fairly slavery-y place is rebirth but it bugs out extremely often. you may commit crimes in some cities and then be taken in slavery while caged, and what happens? you're moved to the local slave pen and wait there for all eternity. fleeing slaves? sit in front of the city gate for the same eternity.

 

[samuraigaiden]

They had ONE JOB!

 

[mondblut]

slavery? just to name one. "look! look! we have slavery! look! you can totally enslave people!" but you actually can't.

Indirectly managing AI-controlled units beyond having them follow a PC around is way beyond the scope of the game. And if you want fully controlled party members with a little manacles icon, it's there (randomly, presumably due to misguided balance considerations). You can also sell prisoners into slavery. What else is missing, rape shacks?

most of the times buying slaves is a money sink, there's no way to buy a decent slave

Git gud. Camp somebody at Eyesocket, and you'll have a decent stream of enslaved grass pirates and outlaw swordsmen constantly coming in. Not to mention intentionally dropping red sabers, sand and swamp ninjas, reaver slaves/whelps and other prisoners with 20-25 stats at any slave shop. I recruited dozens of people that way.

you may commit crimes in some cities and then be taken in slavery while caged, and what happens? you're moved to the local slave pen and wait there for all eternity.

Are you missing the "keep hitting a pile of rocks from 6:00 to 23:00" minigame? Funny, I suspect you are in minority here.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

you're either retarded or some new worse form of retard still undiscovered by science, feigning ignorance on some topics, calling for mods functionalities as the game's on others. you can't enslave for your own gain people in vanilla, you can't recruit prisoners in vanilla, you can't recruit any slave beyond a score of 20-25 in vanilla because it has 0% chance to happen, you can't even "hit a pile of rock" because there's plenty of cities without any kind of node, even those which has some has just a few and the extremely weird and awkward internal logic of the game will rarely pick you to work one, if ever, before the whole cell fucks up and starts tearing apart, the biggest "slaver central", rebirth, will last only a few days before it will start just shuffling npcs around without making them do anything or, even worse, forgetting some by the trees, declaring them "freed" and stopping giving orders to them. the best is when you're the target of this, you're then reached by a guard who'll react to the freed slave and beat you, re-enslave you, then you stand up but you're still without orders, you'll never get them anymore, so you're trapped in an endless cycle of beatings despite your will to stay and work. or, happening pretty often also, you'll spend weeks in a cage because when scripts start to get stuck they cascade one unto another.
and this is "feature complete"?

please, go on with your buffoon act, it's fun watching you embarassing yourself.

 

[mondblut]

you're either retarded or some new worse form of retard still undiscovered by science

No u.

you can't enslave for your own gain people in vanilla,

That might be so, I haven't checked how does it work in vanilla. But if any illiterate modder with a most basic grasp on english can insert a dialogue to make this possible, it is then rather obvious that the developer did not intend that to be a feature out of moral considerations or something. His game - his choice.

you can't recruit prisoners in vanilla

Not directly, yes, you can. You drop them at a slave shop, wait for them to be enslaved, then buy them out - that's how you recruit them. About every fourth of them, anyway.

, you can't recruit any slave beyond a score of 20-25 in vanilla because it has 0% chance to happen

Ah, so you must be one of those fanfic writers who are perpetually butthurt that Tinfist and Eyegore don't just drop everything and join them on a quest to scavenge shoddy underwear from dead hungry bandits?

Yes, 25 is the limit for IS_RECRUITABLE condition. That's what I said.

the best is when you're the target of this

I thought you have whined about "waiting [in a cage] for all eternity" before? You gotta pick one.

and this is "feature complete"?

Somebody needs to be explained the difference between having bugs and having all functionalities that the developer wanted to implement in the game, implemented in the game.

please, go on with your buffoon act, it's fun watching you embarassing yourself.

That must be heredital, your mom enjoys it too.

 

[Zanzoken]

To give a fair review you have to judge a game against its own design goals. With that in mind, here's the description from the Steam page:

A free-roaming squad based RPG focusing on open-ended sandbox gameplay features rather than a linear story. Be a trader, a thief, a rebel, a warlord, an adventurer, a farmer, a slave, or just food for the cannibals.

Research new equipment and craft new gear. Purchase and upgrade your own buildings to use as safe fortified havens when things go bad, or use them to start up a business. Aid or oppose the various factions in the world while striving for the strength and wealth necessary to simply survive in the harsh desert. Train your men up from puny victims to master warriors. Carry your wounded squad mates to safety and get them all home alive.

So far so good. I guess you could argue that "start a business" is a bit suspect, since I don't know if they ever really got the shop counter working.

Freeform gameplay in a seamless game world

in the largest single-player RPG world since Daggerfall, stretching over 870 square kilometers. The game will never seek to limit you or restrict your personal play style.

Definitely true -- even to the game's detriment at times.

Custom design as many characters as you want

and build up a whole squad to fight for you. Characters will grow and become stronger with experience, not just in their stats but their appearance too.

"As many characters as you want" is potentially misleading, but it's technically the truth. You can recruit new people up to the 30-person vanilla limit. If people die, you can always recruit more.

Original take on the RTS-RPG hybrid genre.

No "hero" characters with artificially stronger stats than everybody else- Every character and NPC you meet is potentially an equal, and has a name, a life.

This one is mechanically true, but I'd say the second part is flat out false. There is combat among wandering groups, caravans, and stuff, but other than that the NPCs and factions in the game are quite static without player involvement. The player is the only rags-to-riches story you'll ever find in the game -- that starved peasant in the United Cities you meet on day 1 will still be a starving peasant on day 100.

You are not the chosen one.

You're not great and powerful. You don't have more 'hitpoints' than everyone else. You are not the center of the universe, and you are not special. Unless you work for it.

True, but the game's systems are so hilariously broken that the "you aren't special" vibe wears off fast. You can become fabulously wealthy in a matter of days.

Build a base

where you can research new technologies, upgrade your defences and craft new gear.

True, and I'm surprised this isn't more emphasized in the marketing materials, given that it's a pretty large chunk of gameplay.

Purchase and upgrade your own buildings

to use as safe fortified havens when things go bad, or use them to start up a business.

True, except where noted above.

Variation and possibilities of gameplay.

Be good, be evil, be a businessman, be a thief, live in a town, live in the desert, travel alone, travel in hordes, build a fortress, raze a city. Devote yourself to freeing slaves, or maybe end up a slave yourself.

You can do all of these things, in some sense, but to what extent is it interesting or meaningful? The game isn't going to react or treat you any differently in most of these cases, so a lot of it will just be LARPing.

Dynamic, ever changing world.

Support or hinder whoever you wish, or keep to yourself, the world won't stop moving. This is not just a "game", you are living and surviving in a simulated world.

Mostly false. Imagine you decide to just sit in town for a year, mining copper to pay for food but otherwise doing nothing. How different will the world look at day 365 compared to day 1? My guess is, not much.

Get captured by cannibals and eaten alive

, or sold off by slavers and forced to work in the mines. These are not scripted events, just a regular part of this chaotic world that ruins your life by chance. Anything can happen, yet anything can be overcome if you have the strength.

This is true, and one of the game's stronger points. The early game is intimidating when you're a new player.

Absolutely no Level-scaling.

The world does not level up along with you, and the shops don't change their inventory to only items matching your level. At the start of the game almost everyone will be stronger than you, and survival will always be a struggle. The game won't hold your hand or help you when you're down.

This is true, apart from the "survival will always be a struggle" bit.

Realistic medical system that affects gameplay.

A character with a wounded leg will limp or crawl and slow the party down, wounded arms means you must use your sword one-handed or not at all. Severe injuries will result in amputees needing robotic limb replacements. Blood loss means you can pass out, and the blood will attract predators. A character’s stats are affected by equipment, encumbrance, blood loss, injuries and starvation.

All true, as far as I know.

Intelligent AI

that allows for characters to reason and work towards long-term goals and desires. Squads work together and carry their wounded to safety. Characters can be setup to take care of micromanagement for you and run production in your base.

I guess this is true in relation to friendly AI. The base automation seems to work pretty well overall, which is a nice feature. I can't really think of any cases where the enemy AI did anything other than zerg rush.

Aid or oppose the various factions

in the world while striving for the strength and wealth necessary to simply survive in the harsh environment.

Technically true, although the implementation sucks. Take the Cannibal Hunters, for example. Can you really "aid" them in any way other than following a group around and helping them in battle? Does the game in any way acknowledge you for doing this? This is a group that should be looking for recruits to replenish and expand its ranks, yet there's no way to join forces with them even when it would make sense to do so.

Independently developed

with no design influences, or alterations dictated by men in gray suits who have never played a game before in their lives.

Indie good, corporate bad, sure.

Original game world.

There are no fantasy-knock-off cliches. No magic.

The world certainly does have a unique feel to it, which is one of the strongest aspects of the game.

----------------------------

So overall, I'd say the game delivers quite a bit on its promises, especially early on when you're still learning. But inevitably you start to see the limitations of the simulation, and how the decision to throw out almost all scripted content leads to a world that is just flat and disinterested.

 

[thesecret1]

The performace is abhorrent, the game seems as though it decided to cut corners (no slavery mechanics for the player, minimal interaction with NPCs other than shopping, utterly broken economy, and of course the myriad of bugs, to name a few examples), yet it also manages to be pretty fun with its combat and health system, as well as having some genuinely great mechanics (basebuilding actually works well, including automation, and the raids and travelling caravans take your location into account, there are designated cannibal poles to eat you limb by limb, etc. etc.). It's a diamond in some serious rough; wish the devs took a year longer to polish and balance it.

 

[mondblut]

Mostly false. Imagine you decide to just sit in town for a year, mining copper to pay for food but otherwise doing nothing. How different will the world look at day 365 compared to day 1? My guess is, not much.

Have fun trying to find Bayan or Esata after loitering in Admag for a few months, with all the predator attacks and street brawls it entails Too bad the code still registers them as "alive"...

I can't really think of any cases where the enemy AI did anything other than zerg rush.

Well, they do heal their wounded, try to mount spare turrets and, if slavers, enslave the fallen.

 

[Zanzoken]

I jumped back into the game today and decided to make a run at wiping out the entire leadership of the Holy Nation. Had a blast, read on for more details.

...

My next update should hopefully be my last for this run, and I will link all the prior posts for anyone who wants to read the whole thing.

BTW I did end up finishing this run. I went in using stealth, kidnapped Phoenix, turned him in to the Shek, and now Flotsam controls Bad Teeth and Blister Hill.

Would have been cool to take down the Holy Nation by force but it just wasn't going to be feasible without a lot more grinding. I guess using stealth makes sense in the context of this run -- it was just a bit anticlimactic.

 

[Zanzoken]

Thinking about starting a new game where I try to play Kenshi more like a traditional cRPG.

- 6 man party
- Can't build an outpost
- One set goal to begin the game i.e. "main quest"

Any other ideas?

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Thinking about starting a new game where I try to play Kenshi more like a traditional cRPG.

- 6 man party
- Can't build an outpost
- One set goal to begin the game i.e. "main quest"

Any other ideas?

Not sure how much you've explored in your previous games, but you might consider as a goal either exploring every biome or discovering the secrets of the First and Second Extinctions.

 

[Zanzoken]

That's kind of what I was leaning toward as well. Done a fair bit of exploring but never fought the Bugmaster or

Spoiler

Cat-Lon

I thought playing a bounty hunter would also be cool, getting rich and ultimately allying with the UCs.

 

[samuraigaiden]

Y'all are making this game sound so cool.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Y'all are making this game sound so cool.

It is. At least the first time around.

 

[Zanzoken]

I started up a new game and was feeling burnt out within 15 minutes. Once you've figured out how to survive the early game -- which is trivial after you've been through it a couple times -- then all you're left with is grinding XP, research, and gear until you're strong enough for end-game content. Not a knock on the game necessarily, but after 300+ hours of playing I just can't get motivated to do it.

I may try save-game editing + mods to build a strong party from the outset. Or maybe I just need to play something else and come back to this one later.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Y'all are making this game sound so cool.

it is. incomplete and buggy beyond human comprehension, but it is.

 

[toro]

Resist I must.

 

[Wyatt_Derp]

Picked it up on the recent gog sale. Game is... bit of a challenge. Hilariously hard. First game I took my character out of town to do some peaceful copper mining and got immediately robbed and murdered by dust bandits. 2nd and 3rd plays went more or less the same. Current game I'm finally getting a small base going and have managed to survive a while. Love games like this. The world of Kenshi enjoys laughing at your efforts... a lot like ours.

 

[Fedora Master]

I got to the point where I started my first base at the edge of the swamp but now I'm getting swamped (heh) by Blood Spiders and raiders and building defenses takes ages because getting building materials is so slow.

 

[toro]

I got to the point where I started my first base at the edge of the swamp but now I'm getting swamped (heh) by Blood Spiders and raiders and building defenses takes ages because getting building materials is so slow.

Best Kenshi is adventure Kenshi. Take a couple of characters and go explore the world. You will probably die but it will be in a satisfying way.