Which RPG got inventory completely right?

[Jasede]

Some of those could comfortably fit in the same bag without causing spergpain. "Weapons" and "Throwing Weapons", really?

Yes, all these flaming discs and bottles of oil and powder. They're clearly not weapons you can equip - you have to click on them to use them. They're different from weapons.

 

[Johannes]

Sigh... it is like a adventurer would have to sort his bags. Well, a bit.

But just how much would an adventurer really carry with him, simulationistically speaking?

 

[laclongquan]

A bag of without-these-stuff-I-might-just-die 10-kilo backpack. You must have spare weight to pick up loots, right?

 

[Modron]

I dunno if it was perfect, but I liked Arcanum's. You were limited both by weight and size, and encumberance wasn't a threshold - you'd lose speed (I think it was speed) the more you were encumbered, which meant you could waltz around carrying 4 plasma rifles and a truckload of MFCs.

I felt the space of arcanum's inventory did not quite match up with high strength characters; granted there were ways around the tetrisy aspect of it by say assigning larger items to hotkey slots and in the case of say a mage picking a container close to a teleport spot. However, technologists were kind of screwed in this aspect especially if they didn't have that much charisma for companions mules; would have been good if they had a binder/briefcase for all those quest related notes like they did with the keyring for keys.

 

[DalekFlay]

Good thread, happy with the responses.

Realism is less important to me than satisfying gameplay. For that reason I kind of like limited weapons in a Tetris-style but unlimited everything else, for collecting/questing/alchemy/crafting simplicity. I believe the original Witcher did this to at least some extent.

 

[Gurkog]

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Tetris + encumbrance

It made you prioritize loot whoring or survival.

I know STALKER isn't an RPG... but it is a ton better than Fallout 3!

 

[Lord Andre]

M&M 6,7,8. With the sinful, guilty, fagoty pleasure of dressing up the big ass paperdolls.

 

[Norfleet]

No RPG has ever gotten inventory COMPLETELY right. Otherwise, why would everyone keep doing something else?
But I'd have to say JA2 1.13 has it best: You have the stuff you carry on your person...and then the piles of crap you stuff into your car. Give us an original Dungeon Siege-esque mule, and you can translate that to FRPGs. Plus, elegant interface for pillaging the area after you're done killing, so you don't waste your time searching each individual corpse after the battle is already over. One button to gather it all into a pile and begin stuffing the valuables into your car.

 

[Master]

Deus Ex had maybe the best one. And SS2 was great too. Grid with different item sizes but no weight may be the best aproach.

 

[DraQ]

Inventory completely right = only items held or worn on your person (some of which might be containers), weight determines what character might carry, weight and size what a container might hold.
If you can strip naked but still keep all your stuff in your inventory that's already wrong.

So...

none that I know of.

Good thread, happy with the responses.

Realism is less important to me than satisfying gameplay. For that reason I kind of like limited weapons in a Tetris-style but unlimited everything else, for collecting/questing/alchemy/crafting simplicity. I believe the original Witcher did this to at least some extent.

If you can vacuum up stuff without limits that's bound to cause management pains sooner or later.
Even if you don't need to clean up for purely mechanical reasons, cluttered inventory sucks balls.

 

[DraQ]

I don't get the Morrowind crowd. What the fuck is great about an inventory where you have to mouse-over every goddamn same looking potion to find the one you need.

Just FYI:
Ordering is alphabetic, lifeforms who can't binary search don't qualify as fully sentient.

I'm also not a fan of inventory stopping my game, it's just cheap tactics that allow you to gulp potions and scrolls mid combat indefinitely.

That I agree with.

Plus, most of the times I just want to open my inventory- I don't need the whole character screen popping up every time.

You can toggle any of the screens on or off, resize them, and pin them to have them stay visible after you exit inventory mode.
You can also drag and drop items between inventory and the world or in the world from inventory mode.

In terms of UI, other than lack of item names, MW's inventory is reasonably close to perfection.

In terms of mechanics, see my previous post.

When considering size+weight, representation of size could be done via inventory tetris allowing rotation and automatic packing function like DX:HR.

When considering handling containers (see previous post) you can imagine Larian's DOS, except with all (accessible) containers on character being automatically traversed and used to generate composite inventory screen, reminescent of Chrome:

but dynamic.

Also, you shouldn't be able to hotkey individual items, but inventory slots (containers) - hotkeying should work as long as they contain single item (and autoextend to any other slots containing the same item type); alternatively hotkeying of items should only work if they are alone in the container. So you could hotkey your scabbard slot/sword on your belt or any potion pouch on it, but not healing pot or dagger you have stuffed in your backpack and piled ton of other stuff on top.

 

[Falksi]

If games gave you bigger hands you wouldn't need to fanny about with inventory as much.

 

[DraQ]

If games gave you bigger hands you wouldn't need to fanny about with inventory as much.

What if they also gave you a bigger dick?

 

[V_K]

Inventory completely right = only items held or worn on your person (some of which might be containers), weight determines what character might carry, weight and size what a container might hold.
If you can strip naked but still keep all your stuff in your inventory that's already wrong.

So...

none that I know of.

Legacy: Realm of Terror. You get 4 pockets for small items (i.e. no weapons or anything) and your two hands, in one of which you can carry a suitcase once you find it. The suitcase has 14 cells - small items take one, big take two. You can also whack enemies with the case, but it's not terribly effective.

 

[DraQ]

Inventory completely right = only items held or worn on your person (some of which might be containers), weight determines what character might carry, weight and size what a container might hold.
If you can strip naked but still keep all your stuff in your inventory that's already wrong.

So...

none that I know of.

Legacy: Realm of Terror. You get 4 pockets for small items (i.e. no weapons or anything) and your two hands, in one of which you can carry a suitcase once you find it. The suitcase has 14 cells - small items take one, big take two. You can also whack enemies with the case, but it's not terribly effective.

Yeah, but it's fixed inventory.
I mean something like instead of having whatever you have equipped inside your inventory space, having inventory space inside whatever you have equipped in your typical free-from RPG context.

Think TES-style inventory where *everything* is represented - you can actually strip naked because even basic attire is inventory items. Then you don't have inventory as such - only equipment slots and items compatible with them that may also be containers.
UI takes care of management of that not being tedious as fuck by generating inventory tree (notice rhyming with directory tree which would be a valid familiar metaphor).

It would allow for relatively painless implementation of mechanics that is typically not really implementable for practical reasons - think about swimming being constrained by what you wear and carry both because of weight and items being destroyed by water.
Normally it's non-starter - good luck dumping and picking up entirety of your typical RPG inventory every time you want to take a dip. If you are only limited by what you wear, then you just strip naked and mysteriously have all your staff back on the other side, even if you're say, infiltrating enemy stronghold through a back route, need to be stealthy and getting your stuff in supposing to be a substantial logistical obstacle (preferably tackled mechanically, not via one-shot scripting).
Here? just drag&drop stuff you don't want to take (including other containers you have equipped) into your backpack, drop backpack (hide it, pass to a party member for safekeeping, find a way to get it delivered to the stronghold separately, etc.). Several seconds, done, same with reequipping.

 

[Falksi]

If games gave you bigger hands you wouldn't need to fanny about with inventory as much.

What if they also gave you a bigger dick?

Then I'd need bigger hands to wank with, as I currently have to use both anyway.

 

[V_K]

I mean something like instead of having whatever you have equipped inside your inventory space, having inventory space inside whatever you have equipped in your typical free-from RPG context.

But that's precisely what the suitcase in Legacy is - it's an item you carry in one of your hands. And you can dump it as a single item with all of its contents inside. Some parts of the game actually require you to.
Granted, the game doesn't go much further with this - there aren't other containers available - but the principal system is exactly what you're talking about.

 

[DalekFlay]

If you can vacuum up stuff without limits that's bound to cause management pains sooner or later.
Even if you don't need to clean up for purely mechanical reasons, cluttered inventory sucks balls.

If you separate inventory into categories... weapons, armor, potions, crafting... then having an unlimited crafting section doesn't really cause any issues. That's what Witcher does, iirc.

 

[DraQ]

If you can vacuum up stuff without limits that's bound to cause management pains sooner or later.
Even if you don't need to clean up for purely mechanical reasons, cluttered inventory sucks balls.

If you separate inventory into categories... weapons, armor, potions, crafting... then having an unlimited crafting section doesn't really cause any issues. That's what Witcher does, iirc.

What are upsides to allowing player hoover everything not nailed down without limitations?

Because downisides are numerous and diverse.

Making it painless from gameplay POV is effectively the same approach as taking painkillers because your leg is bent weird way, blue and has some bloodied bones sticking out, then considering injury sufficiently treated.

 

[Thal]

This inventory simulates what you'd expect to be able to carry as a mercenary. It's realistic, functional and there's no tetris or hoarding. Your slots are what you're wearing plus your a backpack with some front and side pockets, plus key chain and wallet. It's even visible while you're playing the game, meaning you never need to take a break to see what you're working with. Above all, despite the very low slot count the inventory is perfectly sufficient, because the game is designed to allow that kind of realistic inventory. You have to do some inventory management, but it never feels frustrating. JA 1.13 adds more slots, but ultimately it's just padding to what is already perfect. I'd love to see a fantasy crpg with this kind of inventory.

 

[DalekFlay]

What are upsides to allowing player hoover everything not nailed down without limitations?

I love ya DraQ, but how is the answer to this question not completely fucking obvious? Not everyone loves inventory management, especially with crafting supplies where you'll never know what you're gonna need and when. It just adds tedium to run back to some box somewhere when you get a new recipe/blueprint. I'm all for restricting weapon and armor carrying because it has a gameplay effect, making you choose loadouts and whatnot. Same with potions, limiting them effects your prowess and such. However limiting crafting supplies just creates busywork for no benefit.

 

[Master]

Inventory completely right = only items held or worn on your person (some of which might be containers), weight determines what character might carry, weight and size what a container might hold.

Weight (numerical) is kind of redundant, as the grid and item size already simulate it in a way.

 

[DraQ]

What are upsides to allowing player hoover everything not nailed down without limitations?

I love ya DraQ, but how is the answer to this question not completely fucking obvious? Not everyone loves inventory management, especially with crafting supplies where you'll never know what you're gonna need and when. It just adds tedium to run back to some box somewhere when you get a new recipe/blueprint.

I will help you out:

• Bigger companies need more management.
• Bigger emergencies need more management.
• Bigger risks need more management.
• ??? inventories need more management.

Fill in the '???' part.

I'm all for restricting weapon and armor carrying because it has a gameplay effect, making you choose loadouts and whatnot.

If something has no gameplay effect why the fuck is it even a part of your game mechanics?

Same with potions, limiting them effects your prowess and such. However limiting crafting supplies just creates busywork for no benefit.

Ingredients are often just potions or other useful items in disguise, so limiting them makes sense.

Most of the stuff is tradeable, meaning lack of restriction allows you to accummulate and move unlimited wealth around as long as you obsessively hoover up everything. That's not good gameplay and it breaks economy.

Crafting supplies can be split into rare, and common. You will typically hang onto the former and they are rare enough to either not be a problem, or, if they are large or heavy enough to make storage an interesting logistics problem rather than usual busywork.
If they are common - why the fuck would you obsessively hoover every single instance you find in the gameworld?
In short, if not being able to move massive amount of crafting ingredients hobbles your crafting system, something is seriously fucking wrong with your crafting system.
Fix your shit instead of shooting the messenger.

Weight (numerical) is kind of redundant, as the grid and item size already simulate it in a way.

No and no.
Items can be bulky independently of being heavy.
Suit of magical or chitin armour can be light, yet bulky.
A fistful of osmium or flask of mercury will be compact, but heavy.
A lot of items you'd rather prevent player from carrying in large numbers are bulky rather than heavy.
A lot of mechanical effects you'd like to affect character are based on carried weight, not bulk.
A lot of interesting mechanical properties of item themselves are a consequence of one or the other - container capacity or ability to block a passage is a matter of bulk, what happens when you drop item on someone is a function of weight, etc.

Those two are distinct and should be handled separately.
If they are conflated, stupid shit ensues - like being able to infinitely nest barrels or chest, then drop the resulting black hole on unsuspecting enemies, or infinite cargo space in one Eve patch.

Inventory tetris is uniquely qualified for handling item size and shape in intuitive manner.
Simple counter handles weight well enough.

 

[DalekFlay]

That's a lot of writing that basically says nothing. There is no functional gameplay benefit to limiting crafting resources on-hand. If you limit how many swords I can carry by weight it adds game balance to whether I use broadswords and short swords, and which magical ones I choose to carry. Limiting how many bronze ores I can have on-hand however just creates backtracking busy work when I need bronze ore to craft something. It has no gameplay benefit and you haven't changed my mind.

 

[DraQ]

That's a lot of writing that basically says nothing. There is no functional gameplay benefit to limiting crafting resources on-hand. If you limit how many swords I can carry by weight it adds game balance to whether I use broadswords and short swords, and which magical ones I choose to carry. Limiting how many bronze ores I can have on-hand however just creates backtracking busy work when I need bronze ore to craft something. It has no gameplay benefit and you haven't changed my mind.

Again, it simply highlights that your crafting system is pathological. If you are going to find and carry around your ore in such bulk quantities, then you should either be able to procure it easily on the spot (so buy or find it locally as needed) or not have it tracked at all, just the rare ingredients.