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Advice on Making Pixel Art

Wayward Son

Fails to keep valuable team members alive
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To quote someone, “Practice makes good. Perfect practice makes perfect.”
 

FeelTheRads

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Apr 18, 2008
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Some of you are talking about becoming a good artist, others about learning to draw.

Yeah, anyone can learn to draw. Just as anyone can learn to sing. But without talent you won't be able to draw anything really good. No matter how much you practice, without talent you won't ever create something like, say, Metal Slug.
But I guess you can learn enough to be able to not be completely shit. Although I wouldn't guarantee even that for everyone.

And learning what looks good right or wrong... well, seriously, in that case you're really better of doing something else.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Some of you are talking about becoming a good artist, others about learning to draw.

Yeah, anyone can learn to draw. Just as anyone can learn to sing. But without talent you won't be able to draw anything really good. No matter how much you practice, without talent you won't ever create something like, say, Metal Slug.
But I guess you can learn enough to be able to not be completely shit. Although I wouldn't guarantee even that for everyone.

And learning what looks good right or wrong... well, seriously, in that case you're really better of doing something else.


Lol, yah this is 100% wrong. Wtf.
 

Glop_dweller

Prophet
Joined
Sep 29, 2007
Messages
1,164
But of course... :)

—One just draws the frames with isometry.

*But since you mentioned it, I did try Lazy Nezumi Pro's isometric rulers with it; it hooks, but doesn't constrain the pen. :(
The app just doesn't work that way.

Personally I think it would have been better if they included an image from clipboard paste option, one that color matched it to the resolution, and palette. Photoshop does this.

(See... Their voxel editor does this.)
 
Last edited:
Joined
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1,898
Isometric is a very real problem when you get limited support from the editor. Tiling isometric, lighting etc. Yeah not that "retarded" a question if you've ever tried your hand at it. Certainly anything tileable becomes non trivial.
 

Mustawd

Guest
Agree that editors that can layer an isometric grid on top of what you’re pixeling are helpful.
 

Krice

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If you want to do something well, by far the most important step is just doing it, and then doing it over and over again.

I think we can agree that people like Lars Ulrich has had a long time to practice playing drums, but he isn't really that good to be honest. It's his talent range and every people has a range they can reach. Just look at classical music and how competitive it is. If you have no talent for it, you simply can't react the top 10% no matter how hard you practice. People who completely dismiss talent are morons, that's a gentle way to express it.
 
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Define "good art".

Reminds me of that all too common statement "its a good wine if you enjoy it", yet its not considered a true statement in the wine tasting community, as wine quality can be objectively measured.
There's art I have to admit is "good" even if it doesn't appeal to me. I am certain that there are bodies/school that have rules on what makes art "good".
Ultimately it will be done by consensus of a body of people well practiced in the art field. Doesn't really matter if you or I consider a piece "good".
Nevertheless "good" or "intrinsic beauty" gives rise to a very interesting point :- like Wabi-sabi or "beauty in imperfection", a broken pottery piece at the base of a waterfall receiving the weight of water.
Sometimes sloppy strokes or ugly technique is what it takes to express a wider impression. But its still the work of a master not an amateur to achieve this kind of thing.
 

FeelTheRads

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Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
Some of you are talking about becoming a good artist, others about learning to draw.

Yeah, anyone can learn to draw. Just as anyone can learn to sing. But without talent you won't be able to draw anything really good. No matter how much you practice, without talent you won't ever create something like, say, Metal Slug.
But I guess you can learn enough to be able to not be completely shit. Although I wouldn't guarantee even that for everyone.

And learning what looks good right or wrong... well, seriously, in that case you're really better of doing something else.


Lol, yah this is 100% wrong. Wtf.

Why are you so butthurt?

100% wrong, huh? So you're saying the only thing anyone has to do to become the next Michelangelo is to practice? Anyone can become the next Eric Clapton or whatever, if all they do is practice a lot? Is that really what you believe? If so, you are embarrassingly retarded and you should kill yourself.

No, retard, no amount of practice will turn you into a good artist. Practice does not create talent. At best, it creates muscle memory.
Like I said, you can learn to maybe draw something not horrible. But even that is a hard thing to do. Some will never be able to even get to that point. NO MATTER how much practice. But, even if you do get to some not horrible level, and you spent a fuckload of time getting there, what exactly was the fucking point?

Spending years on practice to overcome a lack of talent just to be not horrible? Pants on the head retarded way to waste your life.

And since you're so butthurt, let me actually give you a reason to be.
The sprite that you posted is shit. Absolutely nothing good about it. It looks like a deformed midget colored by someone in the 1st grade.
No, it does not look passable. Sorry, but not only did you not learn how to draw, you didn't even learn what looks good or bad, if you think that thing is "passable".

Don't listen to talentfags, the only thing talent really is is early (and I mean EARLY) exposure in life + heavy interest.

Absolutely retarded shit.


Being someone who's "talented" means that being disciplined in practicing drawing is something painless because the "talented" person most likely LOVES the subject, if this isn't your main hobby/interest you won't have enough discipline and thus you won't go anywhere, and I'm not talking about being able to do masterpieces, I'm talking about not even being able to do technically competent drawings even when directly tracing artwork from someone else.

So... don't listen to talentfags... but if you were not into it from early in life then it's pointless to even try?

Here's your talent, bro.

Haha because of course that's what I was talking about. Not about the pixel art in the game.
Then again, most people won't even be able to draw that. NO MATTER how much they practice. Guaranteed.

Funny, plebs who watched some "ANYONE CAN DRAW YES EVEN YOU CLICK ON MY VIDEO NOW" garbage on youtube, think talent does not exist. Talk about fucking decline.
 
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Mustawd

Guest
Why are you so butthurt?

Because this is awful advice.

100% wrong, huh? So you're saying the only thing anyone has to do to become the next Michelangelo is to practice?

No, of course not. But it begins with practice. Especially something like 2D art where dexterity is needed after hours and hours of practice.

But the most retarded assumption here is that “talent” lies in some kind of innate talent that present itself at this point in time. How is anyone supposed to know they have talent? Sure maybe it shows up early in the process. Maybe it shows up later.

What you posted shows a complete lack of understanding of how talent/hard work/passion all combine and meet.

But let’s forget all that. The kid originally posted about learning pixel art for a game he wants to make. So (1) he’s obviously nit trying to become the next Michelangelo, (2) Something like Metal Slug is completely possible after much hard work and passion for pixel art and (3) we are discussing Wayward Son.

Not trying to pick on him or be overly mean but he has a horrible habit of beginning things and never finishing them. He has zero consistency. So yes, for him, even more specifically, the best advice is “just pick a guide, practice for years and get back to me later if this is still an issue”.

And since you're so butthurt, let me actually give you a reason to be.
The sprite that you posted is shit

Actually, it’s not bad. Not good but not bad. It’s also my second thing I ever tried painting digitally. I had never used a tablet or digital art program before. just had done traditional drawing mostly.

So I feel fairly good about it.


At the end of the day, yes there is such a thing as optimal practice. But here the OP has to just do it.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
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Messages
13,716
I didn't give any advice. I said there is a difference between learning drawing techniques and being an actual artist.
OK, maybe you can consider advice that you're just wasting time if you don't have it in you.

But here's an advice: if you don't have it in you and want to be less shit: take real lessons. Don't do youtube tutorials. Get a teacher that can focus on what you're able to do instead of just doing generic drawing lessons. Or instead of "practicing" by drawing at the same shit level forever.

But the most retarded assumption here is that “talent” lies in some kind of innate talent that present itself at this point in time

Actually, yes, that is talent. Innate ability.
Like some people have a talent for numbers. And no matter how much you "practice" you can't become a mathematician like someone who has that talent.
Same with programming. And pretty much everything that is not a basic task.
But I'm sure you're gonna tell me that you only need to practice to become another Carmack.

Sure maybe it shows up early in the process. Maybe it shows up later.

Yes, it can show up later if it's already there, but was undiscovered. It won't just magically appear out of "practice".


Actually, it’s not bad. Not good but not bad. It’s also my second thing I ever tried painting digitally. I had never used a tablet or digital art program before. just had done traditional drawing mostly.

No. It's bad. Very bad. Everything is wrong. Proportions, lighting (or lack of it, rather), shading, colors, posing. Everything. It's prosper-level.
 

Punch

aaaaaa
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Don't listen to talentfags, the only thing talent really is is early (and I mean EARLY) exposure in life + heavy interest.

Absolutely retarded shit.

Drawing isn't like having the correct type of vocal cords to be able to sing in a chorus or having the musculature to jump high enough in order to be a decent basketball player. The most mechanical thing involved in drawing is knowing how to control your multijointed arm like a semi-precise line/brush plotter and that's not only such a small part of it you'd only be locked out of it forever if you were born with some kind of physical problem or some weird rare mental problem similar to how some people don't have spatial awareness. Drawing is mostly a mental aptitude thing and yes, you can get good at it if you practice enough (and correctly), much like language acquisition, etc.

Being someone who's "talented" means that being disciplined in practicing drawing is something painless because the "talented" person most likely LOVES the subject, if this isn't your main hobby/interest you won't have enough discipline and thus you won't go anywhere, and I'm not talking about being able to do masterpieces, I'm talking about not even being able to do technically competent drawings even when directly tracing artwork from someone else.

So... don't listen to talentfags... but if you were not into it from early in life then it's pointless to even try?
Hey I might not be the best writer in the world but stop pretending you didn't get my point, or read it again.

Haha because of course that's what I was talking about. Not about the pixel art in the game.
Then again, most people won't even be able to draw that. NO MATTER how much they practice. Guaranteed.

Funny, plebs who watched some "ANYONE CAN DRAW YES EVEN YOU CLICK ON MY VIDEO NOW" garbage on youtube, think talent does not exist. Talk about fucking decline.

This is the guy throwing around "you're butthurt" in this thread, top fucking kek. Did someone mock your sonichu comics in high school or something? Who hurt you?
 

Mustawd

Guest
Something like Metal Slug is completely possible after much hard work and passion for pixel art and

No, it's not.

The sooner you let go of impossible dreams, the better.

What? Of course it is...what in the fuck dude. There are plenty of examples of people who make amazing artwork from crappy beginnings.

(his original thread at CA.org can’t be found for some reason)
00b20bf793fc4fa6f9961f848fa67e05.png


This guy worked at it for 9/10 years to get to a level of realistic painting where he has his own studio, tours to give workshops and teaches students. For his first few years he practiced sporadically when he could due to having a full-time job. Eventually, he quit his job, studied at an atelier full time and made amazing strides, as you can see in the progress above.

There are plenty of stories online of artists just like this. Some of the most fun things to do when I was practicing art seriously a few years ago was to read all the online sketchbooks of anyone who posted consistently because it was so motivating to see how consistent practice can yield results in skill.

Talent will get you there faster and farther, all things being equal.

But it’s ridiculous to think you can’t get to the level of Metal Slug in pixel art if you’re passionate enough and work hard enough. Is the OP that? No. That doesn’t make it an impossible feat by any means.
 

Egosphere

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
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Hibernia
Michelangelo and good pixel art aren't even in the same league. You can't become Michelangelo through practice, but you can make superb pixel art. How do you even conflate the two?
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
Something like Metal Slug is completely possible after much hard work and passion for pixel art and

No, it's not.

The sooner you let go of impossible dreams, the better.

What? Of course it is...what in the fuck dude. There are plenty of examples of people who make amazing artwork from crappy beginnings.

(his original thread at CA.org can’t be found for some reason)
00b20bf793fc4fa6f9961f848fa67e05.png


This guy worked at it for 9/10 years to get to a level of realistic painting where he has his own studio, tours to give workshops and teaches students. For his first few years he practiced sporadically when he could due to having a full-time job. Eventually, he quit his job, studied at an atelier full time and made amazing strides, as you can see in the progress above.

There are plenty of stories online of artists just like this. Some of the most fun things to do when I was practicing art seriously a few years ago was to read all the online sketchbooks of anyone who posted consistently because it was so motivating to see how consistent practice can yield results in skill.

Talent will get you there faster and farther, all things being equal.

But it’s ridiculous to think you can’t get to the level of Metal Slug in pixel art if you’re passionate enough and work hard enough. Is the OP that? No. That doesn’t make it an impossible feat by any means.
I was just going to invoke MindCandyMan.
 

redactir

Artist Formerly Known as Prosper
Joined
Jul 16, 2018
Messages
696
As a veteran artist I guess I could throw in my two cents. Practice definitely has its limits, but no one got anywhere without it. It's easy to devolve without it.
If for some reason you actually want to challenge yourself to be good then you need to prepare yourself for a lot of struggle.

I use to hangout in toxic circles that told me my work was shit everytime. And everytime I'd go back to the drawing board for better and worse, then get rejected again.
Eventually you learn to improve things as far as you can and accept that your improvement will only come in stages.

For us 3D artist it's amazing how much lighting and shadows changes our art from something formless to something detailed and mature.
It's good to rush to get some lighting and shadow after you trust your geometry. Don't think about textures, instead tweak your material to work better with the lighting and shadow.
Don't understimate how a backdrop change can make your creation really pop and become immersive.

When you receive your initial feedback , which is usually something like, "that's shit" or "my underage relative could do better" or even "that's literally just shit", you are ready to
go back and plan the next stage. Always remember you are in control of when the last will be. Just don't fall into the trap of wanting more than your design can support.

The harshest criticisms will actually be the ones designed to harm you or push you off your path. Find your own style, you know what you want.
 

Nathaniel3W

Rockwell Studios
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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming!
Someone with raw talent who doesn't take the time to practice might make it to the 50th percentile of artists.

Someone without any natural talent who diligently practices and learns will make it to the 90th percentile eventually.

The Michaelangelos of the world are people who have natural talent AND they practice their art for years.

Someone can become a very competent artist through study and practice regardless of natural talent. Saying "You'll never be Michaelangelo" is unhelpful, and frankly irrelevant. If OP wants to know how to improve his pixel art skills, the answer is study and practice.
 
Joined
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Messages
1,898
Someone with raw talent who doesn't take the time to practice might make it to the 50th percentile of artists.

Someone without any natural talent who diligently practices and learns will make it to the 90th percentile eventually.

The Michaelangelos of the world are people who have natural talent AND they practice their art for years.

Someone can become a very competent artist through study and practice regardless of natural talent. Saying "You'll never be Michaelangelo" is unhelpful, and frankly irrelevant. If OP wants to know how to improve his pixel art skills, the answer is study and practice.

Well...yes, but its too general an answer to be helpful. I do like that you included the word "study" along with "practice" because the two really need to be done together.
I think proportions are a big big issue. I would say the answer to that is to use templates, and tracing paper. How the eye make perceptions is a lot of the time inexplicable. So I think learning by reinforcing what ought to go where by copying templates can help, I also think there are some rules of thumb (7 heads = 1 body, etc).

As an aspiring artist myself I find it very frustrating to read over simplified advice. Generalizations are great, but its the detail that I want to read about. My brain has an easier time attaching to specific information and then doing its own generalizing, rather than the other way around. Maybe thats just me.
 

Mustawd

Guest
As an aspiring artist myself I find it very frustrating to read over simplified advice.

That’s fair, but considering that:

A.) “How to draw?” is one of the most googled questions on the internet behind maybe only “How to lose weight” and “How do I increase my dick size”

B.) It’s equally frustrating to give advice to someone whose main lack is indeed lack of consistent practice/effort. And as stated previously, the OP has those issue in spades. So I know he needs tons of practice. He knows that. We all know that. We also know that he’ll never likely do it.

This is similar to wasting your time on “what brushes are the best?” or “what tablet is best? Should I get a Cintiq?” because you know that person is focusing on the minutia instead of the very general notion of picking a guide or two and consistently working from there.

It reminds me of an interview with a Marvel Comic Artist (I think he opened up a studio called Nine More Vodkas or something) and when asked the best resource to learn from he responded “Hogarth, Hogarth, Hogarth” in reference to Dynamic Anatomy by Hogarth. Because he only ever had that one book and he’d practice hours and hours from this singular book to hone his skill.

Yes, “just practice” can be an overly general statement, but in this case for this thread and this OP it’s 100% spot on.


EDIT: The studio I was referring to is actually called SIXMOREVODKA and the artist is Marko Djurdjevic.

When Marko was 11, he discovered Burne Hogarth's book Dynamic Anatomy(1958), a major turning point in his self-education. Studying the guide for two years, Djurdjevic then put the book away and began to add a layer of realism to his drawings. He used what he learned from Hogarth as a foundation, while at the same time pulling ideas from his everyday life observations.
 
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PompiPompi

Man with forever hair
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RPG Wokedex
Use the constraints your are comfortable with.
If 64x64 characters is too hard for you, try 32x32 or 16x16. Or even 8x8.
It also helps to sketch before you make a character.
A sketch is an outline of the character you do really quick and messy with a lot more gut feelings and intuition rather than calculating the dimensions of each part.
Even professional painters would start with a tiny sketch just so they can easily get the general shape and proportion without using the logical part of the brain much.
After you have a sketch, you can do a more clean drawing of the body of your character.
Also, you could search for one good pose for all your Human characters, and after this pose, all the other characters are just variations and iteration on the same pose.
For instance, a front facing character, or a side facing character.
The "naked RPG guy" pose.

As for lighting, remember to think of a certain direction of light source for all your art. You also don't want to overdue lighting, and just put the shading where it is consistent with the light source. Putting shading everywhere and too much, will make your character look like a pillow.
Sometimes less is more with shading.
 

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