Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,034
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Sorry for asking about this again, but I forget and the search feature's real spotty: do I have to start a new game on the updated branch in order to play the expansion and get all the new stuff?
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
So essentially meta gaming/cheesing the shit out of them
I think you need to come up with an actual definition of "cheese" at this point, because I'm getting the impression that it means "everything that I don't like or refuse to incorporate into my build for no rational reason whatsoever".

or have very specific builds or items.
Yes, specific builds need to use specific items and abilities to deal with specific enemies. This is nothing new, it's what you are doing the whole game. Metal armor builds can laugh in the face of death stalkers while also having to come up with ways to deal with enemies that give them more trouble. You seem to lack perspective.

You can meet them before level 10, essentially right after Depot A.
This is not exclusive to Death Stalkers and isn't a bad thing at all. You can encounter pretty much anything outside of Deep Caverns as soon as you hand the drill parts in. There's nothing stopping anyone from going into the Lunatic Mall, progressing all the way to Carnifex in the Arena, etc. at level 10 and getting destroyed. Some builds could even take on Death Stalkers or Carnifex at level 10, anyways. Different builds can tackle different enemies at different levels. You seem lack perspective, again.

Also fake news about constitution 3.
He says, followed by

When playing my PSI Sniper with 3 con
If you are lightly armored with a tactical vest
I can only conclude you are playing a 3 CON psi build, which is the lowest HP build you could possibly make, while also wearing a tactical vest which is completly unsuited for dealing with melee enemies such as Death Stalkers. There is nothing stopping your build from wearing a sturdy riot gear with a hybrid panel, which provides decently high DR against melee and a much needed HP bonus. You are not even making an attempt at actually trying to find a way to protect yourself, just expecting the game bo be molded around what you're personally playing. It doesn't work that way, especially not on DOMINATING which is inteded for very optimized builds. You can either adapt to enemies that give you trouble or keep dying, your choice. Or play on a lower difficulty, since Death Stalkers are not nearly as common on Hard.

Flares, and molotov cocktails, also need you to initiate combat which is not always possible without cheating/cheesing, see going down vents in Warehouse, yeah you can cheese by initiating combat before going down, but your character should neither expect nor know that they are down there since there is 0 indication for it. Irongut is pretty much the same, requires reload or pre existing knowledge that Death Stalkers will be present.
You get the information that there are Death Stalkers nearby as soon as you stinged, at which point all of those become viable means of active protection without needing any meta knowledge. If you can't survive getting stinged once, your build is just too squishy and lacks passive protection. It doesn't have to be that way. The stings deal around 100 damage on average. Substract 20 or so from a double low freq shield, that's 80. Multiply by 0,65 (given that even the weakest riot gear will give at least 35% DR vs. melee) , that's 52. A quality 70 sturdy vest will give you 53 HP. Congratulations, the sting did no damage just by wearing a decent shield and a 20% armor penalty armor, which in no way cripples your stealth, movement points or dodge/evasion.

Hell, let's assume the worst case scenario. The worst critcal stings I've seen were around 200. 180 after shield, 117 after the riot armor, 64 after the aforementioned vest. Let's even assume that you have no way to either get rid of the crawler poison stun (you do though, because you should have Locus of Control as soon as possible, which is at level 14) and you have to suck up the 78 bio damage from taking antidote. That's 142 damage. 3 con psi builds have 149 HP at level 12, at level 9 with the 30 HP from vigorous belt. Or invest 1 or 2 more points in CON, if you want that HP even sooner.

As someone with extensive stealth build experience the picture with Paranoia, motion tracking goggles, perception and stealth makes me laugh to no end. You effectively need well over 600 combined points in detection and stealth
Funny, my character with 280 detection and 166 stealth disagrees. Maybe your experience isn't as extensive as you think it is. It's not too hard to get comparable numbers around level 15 or sooner, assuming you have high PER, decent AGI, Paranoia, motion tracking goggles and relatively light suit of armor with black cloth.

https://webm.red/sMIC.webm

The only non-meta thing mentioned there is Force Field, no idea how exactly it is supposed to work with Stasis since I have no play tested the expansion and do not know its exact mechanics. I could mention that he forgot Locus of Control which breaks stun and provideds stun immunity.
They don't work together, they are both ways to keep the stalkers at bay once you know you are there. Especially useful when you got stung, since both provide a way to wait out the stun without taking bio damage.

My best guess is that they ignore around 80% of the shield absorb. It helps, but not a lot.
Neither crawlers nor death stalkers ignore shields to any degree whatsoever. There's no guessing involved, all you have to do is to compare the blocked damage to your shield's threshold. Their impact speed is very low, just like almost if not all melee weapons in the game.

jFO9xOU.png


Bear in mind it still doesn't work that well. If you use two 100 quality low emitters you only absorb 20 damage vs very low. Even if you somehow manage to find two 160 quality ones you only have 30 absorption. And, I mean, that's good, but it's not like it's going to make you immune to them. Especially if they just keep spamming the sting and then hiding again.
20-30 damage less from every attack is helpful when dealing with the sting and invalueable when they decide to stick around after stinging and bite you 4 times instead of vanishing away, which happens from time to time.
 
Last edited:

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
Have you (or anyone else beta testing it) tried it going in at 15 on normal? Would that be more feasible?
ive got places to be chicks to fuck and checks to collect, i am NOT watching chars move EVER EVER and have not done so since the unfixable state of NES games

That's reasonable criticism, no jokes, but that simply mean this game isn't for you, and the games you would probably like isn't for me.
The only secret here is why you trying to push and force these kind of games to suite your lifestile, instead of departing and looking for a games which suits you.

The slow walking speed added nothing to the game in friendly areas. It was so bad people chose Coretech simply because they were closest to the elevator.
 

epeli

Arcane
Joined
Aug 17, 2014
Messages
719
Tygrende posts well-constructed friendly advice to Sykar, corrects misunderstandings about game mechanics, even gives screenshot and video examples.
Sykar rates said post retarded.

Ah, classic codex.
love.png
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Tygrende posts well-constructed friendly advice to Sykar, corrects misunderstandings about game mechanics, even gives screenshot and video examples.
Sykar rates said post retarded.

Ah, classic codex.
love.png

Except there was nothing new or "helpful" besides the minor correction of the interaction of melee attacks from Death Stalker and energy shield, not that it matters much because what really kills you is the alpha strike with the retarded debuff. Of course as mentioned earlier it stands to question reason why the flying fuck absorption is handled so damn inconsistently across the board but that is a matter for another discussion.
The rest was the drivel I had already debunked a year ago. You, the biggest unwarranted patronizing dumbfuck and Mr. "I click end turn instead of pressing space" Tygrende are so far up your own asses it is comical. Seeing two of the biggest dumbfucks of the board with over-bloated egos trying to pretend like they are some sort of "hotshot" again has its perks though. :lol:

The-"highest difficulty it too high"-Sykar

Critizing a single enemy type, or mostly just that the advanced enemy type appears way before the basic type, and the manner of how a difficulty was increased in the most brain dead way possible mostly just adding extra tedium and obnoxiousness -> can't beat the difficulty. Yeah, you got it retard. :smug:
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
cmon don't be upset
U know how I felt when I learned Katya has 2000 hours in kangmaker and beaten it with stock companions on Unfair?
yeah :M
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
Tygrende posts well-constructed friendly advice to Sykar, corrects misunderstandings about game mechanics, even gives screenshot and video examples.
Sykar rates said post retarded.

Ah, classic codex.
love.png

Except there was nothing new or "helpful" besides the minor correction of the interaction of melee attacks from Death Stalker and energy shield, not that it matters much because what really kills you is the alpha strike with the retarded debuff. Of course as mentioned earlier it stands to question reason why the flying fuck absorption is handled so damn inconsistently across the board but that is a matter for another discussion.
The rest was the drivel I had already debunked a year ago. You, the biggest unwarranted patronizing dumbfuck and Mr. "I click end turn instead of pressing space" Tygrende are so far up your own asses it is comical. Seeing two of the biggest dumbfucks of the board with over-bloated egos trying to pretend like they are some sort of "hotshot" again has its perks though. :lol:

The-"highest difficulty it too high"-Sykar

Critizing a single enemy type, or mostly just that the advanced enemy type appears way before the basic type, and the manner of how a difficulty was increased in the most brain dead way possible mostly just adding extra tedium and obnoxiousness -> can't beat the difficulty. Yeah, you got it retard. :smug:

Where is the source for Tygrende clicking end turn instead of pressing space? That's extremely degenerate.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
Except there was nothing new or "helpful" besides the minor correction of the interaction of melee attacks from Death Stalker and energy shield not that it matters much because what really kills you is the alpha strike with the retarded debuff.
I went into great detail how you can survive their sting with your 3 (or more, sky's the limit!) CON psi build as soon as possible, with minimal adjustments that shouldn't affect your playstyle at all. You might want to give it another read. Or just keep refusing to adjust your build for no rational reason, I guess.

Of course as mentioned earlier it stands to question reason why the flying fuck absorption is handled so damn inconsistently across the board but that is a matter for another discussion.
There is nothing inconsistent about it. Melee attacks have very low speed and are reduced by the full threshold, with only exceptions being unarmed (100 % bypass), gloves (80 % bypass) and knives (60% bypass). The only melee creature that has any bypass I can think of are burrower spawns (100 %), which is uderstadable since they are tiny. I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that Death Stalkers bypass 80 % of the shield when the numbers speak for themselves very clearly.

The rest was the drivel I had already debunked a year ago.
Give me some links and say what parts of my drivel do they exactly debunk, we're all curious.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
I mean it's the highest difficulty in a very niche genre where someone will always be more autistic and design might be to caretake for autists.
it's just one enemy and you can probably just avoid them anyway. I beaten game twice and don't remember them stopping me at all for example.

Where is the source for Tygrende clicking end turn instead of pressing space?
dd0.png
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
Just spam AoEs blindly, you'll catch them sooner or later. They're just annoying, even more so since the stealth sound was taken away.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Tygrende posts well-constructed friendly advice to Sykar, corrects misunderstandings about game mechanics, even gives screenshot and video examples.
Sykar rates said post retarded.

Ah, classic codex.
love.png

Except there was nothing new or "helpful" besides the minor correction of the interaction of melee attacks from Death Stalker and energy shield, not that it matters much because what really kills you is the alpha strike with the retarded debuff. Of course as mentioned earlier it stands to question reason why the flying fuck absorption is handled so damn inconsistently across the board but that is a matter for another discussion.
The rest was the drivel I had already debunked a year ago. You, the biggest unwarranted patronizing dumbfuck and Mr. "I click end turn instead of pressing space" Tygrende are so far up your own asses it is comical. Seeing two of the biggest dumbfucks of the board with over-bloated egos trying to pretend like they are some sort of "hotshot" again has its perks though. :lol:

The-"highest difficulty it too high"-Sykar

Critizing a single enemy type, or mostly just that the advanced enemy type appears way before the basic type, and the manner of how a difficulty was increased in the most brain dead way possible mostly just adding extra tedium and obnoxiousness -> can't beat the difficulty. Yeah, you got it retard. :smug:

Where is the source for Tygrende clicking end turn instead of pressing space? That's extremely degenerate.

https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...l-branch-with-version-1-0-3-13.119472/page-11
The video in the second post.

That comment was pure gold:

I find it fitting that a guy who plays the game on AUTISTIC difficulty finishes his turns with the mouse. :terrorist:
 
Last edited:

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
I mean it's the highest difficulty in a very niche genre where someone will always be more autistic and design might be to caretake for autists.
it's just one enemy and you can probably just avoid them anyway. I beaten game twice and don't remember them stopping me at all for example.

Where is the source for Tygrende clicking end turn instead of pressing space?
dd0.png

They are not present during any of the main quests so yeah, the game on Dominating is of course beatable, no one ever complained about that, that does not change the fact that Death Stalkers are retarded and "Dominating" difficulty is autistic. Why? Because "Autistic" did not really change much in terms of actual difficulty, it just adds more obnoxious number bloat and tedium. This was heavily critizised already last year by for example Lhynn , Pope Amole II and Parabalus in the thread I linked in my previous post.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
RPGs are kinda autistic and about numbers, if you don't like it can always change to some action game. Underrail already has more mechanics than I can think for a single character isometric game - damage types, absorption, shields, sneak and perception mechanic, melee, magic... I am not even sure what else can you add there to make game more difficult. Minigame about solving equations on the fly?
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
RPGs are kinda autistic, if you don't like it can always change to some action game. Underrail already has more mechanics than I can think for a single character isometric game - damage types, absorption, shields, sneak and perception mechanic, melee, magic... I am not even sure what else can you add there to make game more difficult. Minigame about solving equations on the fly?

More (active) feats for enemies > passive number bloat. Health hypos/PSI boosters working over several turns instead of healing all instantly. Better AI. Better gear for certain elite type of enemies. Etc. Plenty of things could have been done without resorting to brain dead stat lazy bloat, something Skyrim was heavily critizsed for, yet Styg gets a pass by many. Why? Because it is an indie game? No way, at least for me. Not to mention that it breaks/undermines immersion, see the six Goliathuses close to the Hanging Rat for example. Stealth builds are also forced far more often into combat instead of avoiding it, which I consider :decline:.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Better AI
When people ask for this they don't truly know what they are asking for, and when they get this they understand they never wanted it.
imo

Better gear for certain elite type of enemies
That's literally stats

Hypos/stims I agree

Not the same, because it is reserved for a very specific and rare type of enemy, not every schmuck scavenger running around with a Q50 gun which is currently the case. I completely disagree with your comment about AI. I know exactly what I want. Hell it would help if the AI would stop blowing itself up on a regular basis for starters, best example being the fight at Junkyard between Eels and Scrappers, I cannot count the number of times Silas blows up himself and half his team instead of Scrappers. Another good example is the fight against the Beast, Dan, Saban and the drone are so fucking retarded it is not even funny, using non armor piercing bullets, running into traps and caltrops used by you when they were watching you laying them out, never kiting, running into the middle of enemies because the AI is too stupid to switch targets, drone wasting a dozen turns by transforming into a turret only to transform back the next turn without having done anything. Using Knee Cap shot before Aimed Shot to profit from Opportunist is also something which drives me mad, happens over and over that allies and enemies use Aimed Shot only to follow up with Knee Cap Shot. The list of easily fixable retarded behaviors is staggering.
 
Last edited:

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
It is probably not as easy as just blowing up numbers, sure. But changing sequences of Knee Cap Shot -> Aimed Shot instead of the other way around is for sure something easily fixable. Same for the fucking drone to stop wasting turns by turning into a turret, it does not even increase effective damage, just lowers it if it does not fire. Also easy to fix the bullets Dan and Saban are using, there is no reason whatsoever that they shoot with conventional ammo instead of armor piercing ammo, any 5-year old would realize that. Enemies and allies not blowing themselves up so much with grenades might be more tricky than blowing up numbers but would be something I would praise, unlike stat bloat.
 

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,966
Location
Russia
So changing active feat sequences on all enemies for a single difficulty? If that's what you mean for better AI.

That looks like extremely unrealistic expectations even if Styg had more money than Skyrim.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom