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KickStarter Solasta Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Kyl Von Kull

The Night Tripper
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
At the moment we have 4 classes: Fighter, Rogue, Wizard and Priest, but we're looking to add more (Kickstarter will notably help in that). Barbarians are among the additional classes we're considering.

How does the team feel about Knights of the Chalice? Because 3 classes x 3 worked great in KotC. When done well, a narrow focus lets you build in a ton of depth. So having the 4 core classes sounds good to me--maybe you guys should be careful about adding more, because more doesn't necessarily mean better.
 
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At the moment we have 4 classes: Fighter, Rogue, Wizard and Priest, but we're looking to add more (Kickstarter will notably help in that). Barbarians are among the additional classes we're considering.

How does the team feel about Knights of the Chalice? Because 3 classes x 3 worked great in KotC. When done well, a narrow focus lets you build in a ton of depth. So having the 4 core classes sounds good to me--maybe you guys should be careful about adding more, because more doesn't necessarily mean better.

Agreed. They need to get the "core 4" correct first, particularly since most classes each have built in paths/prestige classes for 5E. I feel like PoE greatly suffered by trying to implement too many classes in order to milk the Kickstarter. Don't make the same mistake!
 

Myzzrym

Tactical Adventures
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How does the team feel about Knights of the Chalice?
I don't believe we played that one, at least I didn't. Don't worry though, we're definitively not aiming for as much diversity as Pathfinder:Kingmaker, we want to make sure what we have is clean before moving on (which is why we have only announced 4 classes so far).
 

CryptRat

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You should play it, it's miles above anything else, or at least anything else with a similarly small squad (only 4 too), I'm sure there are lessons to learn from playing it.
 

Myzzrym

Tactical Adventures
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Just to make sure there any misunderstandings there - the article is our Creative Director (CEO) talking, not me. I didn't live the SSI Gold Box era, my adventure started with Baldur's Gate, Icewindale and ToEE. I'll ask about Dark Sun, this one wouldn't be surprising though (Knights of the Chalice being 2009 vs Dark Sun being 1993).
 

Lawntoilet

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At the moment we have 4 classes: Fighter, Rogue, Wizard and Priest, but we're looking to add more (Kickstarter will notably help in that). Barbarians are among the additional classes we're considering.
What about subclasses, multiclassing, and feats? If those are going to be properly implemented then this game really will be too good to be true.
 

Myzzrym

Tactical Adventures
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Yeah, when I think of successful D&D games you know what pops into my mind? Definitely ToEE.
This is some next level delusion.

Eeeeeh, to be fair I don't think them following the ruleset was the main issue, I feel like ToEE's problem was more that it was a buggy mess at release. Still loved it though, but that's probably nostalgia goggles speaking.

What about subclasses, multiclassing, and feats?

Sub-class: Well it's 5e, so yea Sub-classes are a given (if by that you mean archetypes) - that being said keep in mind that we're not licensed by WotC, so we can't use official sub-classes.
Feats: We will have Feats, but again we won't be able to use official stuff.
Multiclassing: At the moment I can't give you an answer on that, it's a topic for later.

OGL rules basically allows us to follow the ruleset, but the content itself needs to be homemade. I can imagine there will be concerns about balance (because let's be honest, 90% of homebrewed stuff is usually completely broken) and I'm not saying that everything we'll do will be perfect (even WotC sometimes has some issues, 5e Ranger being one of them). That being said, know that the guys on the job have been game designers and game masters for a few decades now, so they have a good grasp on both game design & D&D in general (Graeme for instance is also one of the original designer of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay).
 

Lawntoilet

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What about subclasses, multiclassing, and feats?

Sub-class: Well it's 5e, so yea Sub-classes are a given (if by that you mean archetypes) - that being said keep in mind that we're not licensed by WotC, so we can't use official sub-classes.
Feats: We will have Feats, but again we won't be able to use official stuff.
Multiclassing: At the moment I can't give you an answer on that, it's a topic for later.
Right, I guess what I meant was "multiple archetypes per class that are substantively different from each other." Having a Paladin-ish Fighter archetype or a Ranger-ish Rogue archetype would be cool if those classes aren't going to be implemented.
 

Dorateen

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the most successful D&D-type games usually were those which stayed the most faithful to the ruleset.

This cannot be hammered home enough.
:lol:
Yeah, when I think of successful D&D games you know what pops into my mind? Definitely ToEE.

Not talking about commercial success. I thought that was obvious. There is right and wrong, there is good and bad. And projects like ToEE or Knights of the Chalice are successful at being far superior adaptations than any AAA streamlined casual filth.
 

V_K

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Myzzrym, I see a lot of talk about using verticality and environmental interactions in combat. But how's about non-combat stuff? Any non-combat routes or environmental puzzles planned?
 

Myzzrym

Tactical Adventures
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Myzzrym, I see a lot of talk about using verticality and environmental interactions in combat. But how's about non-combat stuff? Any non-combat routes or environmental puzzles planned?

Oh boi. Let me tell you about something we call the "Vertical Room". We had to scale it down because it was too confusing, there were routes all over the place and since we're still working on cameras it was super hard to know where you were. Don't worry though it's still pretty impressive in terms of size, I'll let you judge on your own once the Demo is available publicly.

There might not be as many puzzles as we would want in the Demo (which is here mostly to prove our Key Pillars) as we don't want to spend too much time on it and put the final game at risk (that'd be stupid), but it should give you a good idea of what we're trying to do.
 

Dorateen

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Hey there folks,

With only one week left before Gen Con, we've been working hard on all fronts! For the Demo, we've been adding new rooms and polishing old ones - it won't be the final experience (you will have to wait a bit more for that), but you'll be able to have a pretty good idea of what you're getting into. We've also be working on some physical goodies that we'll be giving away at our booth, so be sure to drop by!

Now without further ado, let me give you a small sneak peek of the updates (but not everything, let's not spoil the surprise). If you looked at our Game Info Page before, you might have noticed about a certain room that used to look like this:

10YGU1hfCq55DTPaqWgYgLLVbG78QNABzDXwWNOM.jpeg


Old version of the Ruins first room

A few weeks later, this same room now looks like this:

2yfpYEx7WkASU1TAnDmywv6XfqPIabDJkKfya1Jt.jpeg


New version of the Ruins first room

Pretty cool, isn't it! Here, I'll share one more thing with you - remember our friendly spiders that appear in our Key Art and in one of our previous articles? Grégoire, our awesome animator, has been hard at work to make them as lively as possible. Check it out! (or don't, if you're arachnophobic)

USh4LOGOECQug7TJ9KgVRK9LPMbQzQylNcTqN3QX.gif


rrRPnFEcWOSzpCn4QATsiZqMnZ5Stk4OLz9Z4cnS.gif


That's it for today! As a reminder, you can find us at Gen Con from Thursday 9:00 am until Sunday 2:00 pm at Indiana Convention Center: Hall B, and the Demo Event is completely free (aside from the standard Gen Con Access Badge).
 

Dorateen

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The Crystal Mist Mountains
New substantive developer diary about light and darkness, mechanics and gameplay discussion!

I'm going to feel right at home in these dungeons.

Ruins-Packed-pinned.jpg

Hey there folk! You know the drill by now, Zaz here has you covered.

Hello fellow adventurers,

Today I’d like to talk about how we use Light and Darkness as a gameplay pillar and fundamental concept in the world of Solasta.

When you think D&D, chances are one of the images that comes to mind is a group of adventurers exploring a dark dungeon, torch in hand, moving cautiously to avoid traps and ready to draw their weapon the moment a monster jumps out of a dimly lit corner. Infravision - and then Darkvision - allowed some specific races to be more efficient in the dark, and 5th edition rules now clearly explain the differences between Bright Light, Dim Light, Darkness and Magical Darkness.

But this has scarcely been used in video games, notably because of the many problems involved when it comes to player experience. We too had to brainstorm a lot to find how we’d use this in an interesting way: after all, micromanaging light must not become a burden. And we're pretty sure our Art Director wouldn't be very happy if all you see is a black screen the moment your characters toss their torch away.

saL7dVypMeTP6KO9qNENFKJP9MnMnhxUiDClj7e5.jpeg


Ambient lighting is a very important part of our Level Design

To see or not to see

At the very start, we discussed about how to represent each character’s own vision. As you all know, we human beings don't see that well in darkness - but for our elves and dwarves, life at night is a nice painting in shades of grey (as to how many, no one knows for sure).

We thus tried to represent the game based on the current party leader's vision... and you’d always end-up with an elf leading the path. Not that we have anything against elves, but you have to remember that the game ends up in black and white 90% of the time as you don't see colors with Darkvision. So... we decided that what would be displayed would have to differ from what the character sees.



Adapting the Rules

If you thought that was the only challenge when it comes to light, we're just getting started. Most D&D players will already have an idea of this issue, but the difference between a character with Darkvision and one without Darkvision is huge.

If we go according to RAW (Rules as written), a character with no Darkvision can't see anything in the Darkness - so technically you shouldn't be able to see where the enemy is. If your DM isn't playing nice, you'd probably spend a few rounds just trying to find your opponent before even starting to swing at him with Disadvantage. On the other hand, a character with Darkvision treats Darkness as Dim Light - which doesn't do much aside from giving you disadvantage for Perception Rolls. You could run the entire dungeon with a group of Elves without ever busting out a torch, and probably hear our Art Director sobbing in the distance while doing so.

8NT3cxmNyUPahmkYG60Wt5ByVn14Ej51NfVu9LOE.jpeg


I don't know guys, running the entire dungeon in the dark doesn't seem like a fun time to me.

When we tried to emulate that in-game, it was excruciatingly frustrating - you knew an enemy was right in front of you (because your dwarf can see him), but your human would just be unable to target him because he was in the Darkness. We felt like the player would be punished for simply not having a full party with Darkvision - heavily limiting the interest of having a Character Creation Tool. Want to play Hard Mode? Just have a Human or Halfling in the party.

This is why we decided to seek a middle-ground - a way to make races without Darkvision less inept, and those with Darkvision more reliant on light. In Solasta, the Light System currently works in the following manner:

  • Normal Vision: Disadvantage on Perception Rolls & Attack Rolls under Darkness & Dim Light Conditions.
  • Darkvision: Disadvantage on Perception Rolls & Attack Rolls under Darkness Conditions.
  • Superior Darkvision: No Disadvantage under Darkness Conditions (only for specific Monsters or Darkvision Spell)
With this system, characters with Darkvision will now have Disadvantage in Darkness - meaning they'll have to start relying on Light. To balance it out, other characters will now also have Disadvantage in Dim Light - but they get to "see" in Darkness and can target enemies there. Note that Darkvision does not increase Vision Range - as explained above you'd end up with different Vision Range for different party members, adding artificial layers of complexity to party management.



Streamlining the complexity

During exploration, your perception will be affected by darkness - meaning you'd better have some source of light at hands if you want to detect those traps and secret passages. Darkvision will give you an easier time of course, but you shouldn't forget the rest of the crew - who could very well notice something your Elf / Dwarf missed in the first place.

You'll quickly realize that this is twice as important in battle, as it will affect your accuracy. To keep it simple for the players, in our current system you can see if your opponents are in Bright Light / Dim Light / Darkness by hovering over them, and the cursor model will change to tell you if you'll roll with advantage or disadvantage (or simply normally). Want your Warrior to have his Shield in hand? Better make sure your Wizard has a Light Cantrip for him. By putting a heavy emphasis on Light, it adds a tactical layer to Combat Sequences - using the environment such as glowing stones, braziers or pools of flammable oil to light up your enemies, or rushing in torch in hand so your archer can pick off your enemies from afar. Want to hold a narrow corridor and only your Warrior is still up? Drop your torch on the ground, take out your shield and stand your ground!

S0fTvERXYbYdCcM4xCPm93U0ve9beiCFH2QCc4o7.jpeg


Same situation, Human Character has Disadvantage because of Dim Light Conditions, Elf Character does not.

Light as a weapon

Now, it wouldn't be very fair if Light only affected our party. This Gameplay Pillar is called "Light & Darkness", not just "Light" - there is a duality that we want to explore. While adventurers may have issues with pitch black dungeons, the opposite applies to creatures born deep underground, perfectly adapted to the Darkness with Superior Darkvision, Blindsense or even Tremorsense. These creatures will very likely not appreciate having a torch shoved into their face, and some of them will be Sensitive or even Hypersensitive to Light - making it not only a resource to manage, but a deadly weapon too.

Imagine your party of four facing numerous creatures many time their size, kept in check by the light they wield - it’s both epic and terrifying, and this is what we want Solasta to be about. Back from your quest, you’ll enjoy the fresh air and sunlight, only to rest for your next raid underground… and into darkness.

Zaz

APtsDIAsA5pof90CbFnw2XPkf4YVJ3AmpPbcFrOJ.jpeg


Unused Key Art (Classes not validated) that depicts the Light & Dark Pillar
 
Last edited:

ArchAngel

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Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,998
Conclusion: they fucked Darkvision characters. Maybe they should return low light vision and darkvision from earlier D&D and then have elves have this new stupid system but let dwarves have real darkvision.
 

jf8350143

Liturgist
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Apr 14, 2018
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1,277
There are some locked figures under three of the four races on the race page from the official website, sub races?
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
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Mar 16, 2015
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I've always preferred Infravsion from pre-3rd edition D&D. But they are working within constraints of the 5e system.

I mean theoretically they can housrule the shit out of it and introduce some popular 2E and 3E ideas.
What they are doing is already a house rule, they can just make it less retarded. As it is now you will need to always use light anyways to avoid attack penalties.
 

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