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Is there such a thing as an "Action RPG"? Poll inside

Is there such a thing as an "Action RPG"?


  • Total voters
    101

sullynathan

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Not Europe
Gothic, Dragon's Dogma, Mass Effect, etc. are action rpgs
 

Zed Duke of Banville

Dungeon Master
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Oct 3, 2015
Messages
11,756
To make it easier on the voters:
  • Deus Ex
  • The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
  • Gothic
  • Fallout: New Vegas
  • Dark Souls
If you agree ANY of those is an RPG, then Action RPGs do exist. The point isn't whether all of those are RPGs. Only whether it is possible to have an Action RPG.
There is a subgenre of Computer/Console Role-Playing Games called Action RPGs because they both are focused on the combat aspect of the genre and use action-based combat rather than the genre norm of stat-based combat. Morrowind, of course, is not an Action RPG because having combat in real-time doesn't somehow transform its combat systems from being based on character stats to being based on the player's physical ability any more than it did for Dungeon Master 15 years earlier. Deus Ex isn't an Action RPG because it's a hybrid first-person shooter/stealth game with some RPG elements incorporated, not an RPG. :M

Dragon's Dogma is probably the best example of Action RPG, since it implements its combat so successfully while retaining a party with character classes, skills, equipment, and inventory. Demon's Souls and Dark Souls are so reliant on the player's physical ability, with some talented or obsessive players managing to complete the game without leveling up or while using terrible equipment (or both!), that they are borderline cases of being RPGs versus being action games with RPG elements.
 

PsychoFox

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This is my attempt at defining an RPG (it's influenced by Obsidian and Bioware definitions): "An RPG is a game that allows you to DEFINE and EXPRESS a character (as in personality, not just stats) to meaningfully affect a game's world/outcome of a story."

To me no game would be an RPG if they don't satisfy the criteria here. If a game has a fixed protagonist it's not an rpg. I know that means a game like The Witcher is no longer an RPG in this definition, but i'm okay with that, because deviating from this definition almost always results in oxymoron (ie. games that are definitely not RPGs get branded as such).

To address the OP's question: RPG really has nothing to do with the type of gameplay with this definition. Just because a game is or is not "action" has nothing to do with it being an RPG or not. So yes, an RPG can also be an action game.
 

Falksi

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Feb 14, 2017
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onlyZuul_2.png
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
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This is my attempt at defining an RPG (it's influenced by Obsidian and Bioware definitions): "An RPG is a game that allows you to DEFINE and EXPRESS a character (as in personality, not just stats) to meaningfully affect a game's world/outcome of a story."

To me no game would be an RPG if they don't satisfy the criteria here. If a game has a fixed protagonist it's not an rpg. I know that means a game like The Witcher is no longer an RPG in this definition, but i'm okay with that, because deviating from this definition almost always results in oxymoron (ie. games that are definitely not RPGs get branded as such).

To address the OP's question: RPG really has nothing to do with the type of gameplay with this definition. Just because a game is or is not "action" has nothing to do with it being an RPG or not. So yes, an RPG can also be an action game.

So Gothics are not rpgs? Risens? Elex? But Fallout 4 is ok? This only proves that your definition is simply wrong.
 

PsychoFox

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This is my attempt at defining an RPG (it's influenced by Obsidian and Bioware definitions): "An RPG is a game that allows you to DEFINE and EXPRESS a character (as in personality, not just stats) to meaningfully affect a game's world/outcome of a story."

To me no game would be an RPG if they don't satisfy the criteria here. If a game has a fixed protagonist it's not an rpg. I know that means a game like The Witcher is no longer an RPG in this definition, but i'm okay with that, because deviating from this definition almost always results in oxymoron (ie. games that are definitely not RPGs get branded as such).

To address the OP's question: RPG really has nothing to do with the type of gameplay with this definition. Just because a game is or is not "action" has nothing to do with it being an RPG or not. So yes, an RPG can also be an action game.

So Gothics are not rpgs? Risens? Elex? But Fallout 4 is ok? This only proves that your definition is simply wrong.

Not willing to get into this tbh. But no Fallout 4 is also not an RPG due to having fixed protagonists.

Additionally, what's your definition of RPG? Do you even have one?
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
This is my attempt at defining an RPG (it's influenced by Obsidian and Bioware definitions): "An RPG is a game that allows you to DEFINE and EXPRESS a character (as in personality, not just stats) to meaningfully affect a game's world/outcome of a story."

To me no game would be an RPG if they don't satisfy the criteria here. If a game has a fixed protagonist it's not an rpg. I know that means a game like The Witcher is no longer an RPG in this definition, but i'm okay with that, because deviating from this definition almost always results in oxymoron (ie. games that are definitely not RPGs get branded as such).

To address the OP's question: RPG really has nothing to do with the type of gameplay with this definition. Just because a game is or is not "action" has nothing to do with it being an RPG or not. So yes, an RPG can also be an action game.
visual novels are my favorite RPGs
 

PsychoFox

Educated
Joined
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Messages
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(P___q)
This is my attempt at defining an RPG (it's influenced by Obsidian and Bioware definitions): "An RPG is a game that allows you to DEFINE and EXPRESS a character (as in personality, not just stats) to meaningfully affect a game's world/outcome of a story."

To me no game would be an RPG if they don't satisfy the criteria here. If a game has a fixed protagonist it's not an rpg. I know that means a game like The Witcher is no longer an RPG in this definition, but i'm okay with that, because deviating from this definition almost always results in oxymoron (ie. games that are definitely not RPGs get branded as such).

To address the OP's question: RPG really has nothing to do with the type of gameplay with this definition. Just because a game is or is not "action" has nothing to do with it being an RPG or not. So yes, an RPG can also be an action game.
visual novels are my favorite RPGs
Very few visual novels have character creation. Even less allow you to define your personality.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I have two questions:
1. What is an action game?
2. What is an RPG?

1.) A game focused upon constant, and frenetic engagement; with limited down time.

2.) A game designed as a reactionary engine focused on supporting [relatively] in-depth conversational interaction for a variety of defined or customized characters; ideally whose strengths, and limitations strongly restrict & curtail the player's available options in the gameworld... IE. limiting the player to only to what their current character can personally know or manage to accomplish.

Huh, Wizardry and Might and Magic are not RPGs then. Interesting :M
 
Joined
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Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
I have two questions:
1. What is an action game?
2. What is an RPG?

1.) A game focused upon constant, and frenetic engagement; with limited down time.

2.) A game designed as a reactionary engine focused on supporting [relatively] in-depth conversational interaction for a variety of defined or customized characters; ideally whose strengths, and limitations strongly restrict & curtail the player's available options in the gameworld... IE. limiting the player to only to what their current character can personally know or manage to accomplish.

Huh, Wizardry and Might and Magic are not RPGs then. Interesting :M
They're jrpgs
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I have two questions:
1. What is an action game?
2. What is an RPG?

1.) A game focused upon constant, and frenetic engagement; with limited down time.

2.) A game designed as a reactionary engine focused on supporting [relatively] in-depth conversational interaction for a variety of defined or customized characters; ideally whose strengths, and limitations strongly restrict & curtail the player's available options in the gameworld... IE. limiting the player to only to what their current character can personally know or manage to accomplish.

Huh, Wizardry and Might and Magic are not RPGs then. Interesting :M
They're jrpgs

They lack the 60 hours of cutscenes required to be one.
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
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Nov 24, 2017
Messages
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This is my attempt at defining an RPG (it's influenced by Obsidian and Bioware definitions): "An RPG is a game that allows you to DEFINE and EXPRESS a character (as in personality, not just stats) to meaningfully affect a game's world/outcome of a story."

To me no game would be an RPG if they don't satisfy the criteria here. If a game has a fixed protagonist it's not an rpg. I know that means a game like The Witcher is no longer an RPG in this definition, but i'm okay with that, because deviating from this definition almost always results in oxymoron (ie. games that are definitely not RPGs get branded as such).

To address the OP's question: RPG really has nothing to do with the type of gameplay with this definition. Just because a game is or is not "action" has nothing to do with it being an RPG or not. So yes, an RPG can also be an action game.

So Gothics are not rpgs? Risens? Elex? But Fallout 4 is ok? This only proves that your definition is simply wrong.

Not willing to get into this tbh. But no Fallout 4 is also not an RPG due to having fixed protagonists.

Additionally, what's your definition of RPG? Do you even have one?

In Fallout 4 you create the protagonist by choosing his/her sex, stats and later also perks. It's basically a simpler system from previous Fallouts + minigame of creating the ugliest motherfucker in the Wasteland.

Sure, your PC's social role is fixed but it does not matter much in the game.

Or maybe you think Fallout 1 has a fixed protagonist - the Vault Dweller? Fallout 2 - the Chosen One? FNV - the Courier?

When it comes to definitions of the genre, I think the only inevitable element is advancement of your character(s) throughout the game by improving your stats and/or skills, possessions, spell selection.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2019
Messages
64
Any game involves some measure of player skill(s): dexterity, tactics, strategy, evaluation and selection of options, etc.

Tentative stab at a definition of RPG:

RPGs are games in which a player takes on the role of a character and is allowed to define that character to some extent via stats, abilities, in-game decisions, etc.

That's a pretty damn broad definition, but then a pretty damn wide range of games are called RPGs, so...

:shrugs:
 

RaptorRex888

Learned
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Vatican City
Sure but it can never be a pure one, in the blending and hybridization of two genres something of both is lost, of course, it creates something new in the process.
 

PsychoFox

Educated
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Messages
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(P___q)
This is my attempt at defining an RPG (it's influenced by Obsidian and Bioware definitions): "An RPG is a game that allows you to DEFINE and EXPRESS a character (as in personality, not just stats) to meaningfully affect a game's world/outcome of a story."

To me no game would be an RPG if they don't satisfy the criteria here. If a game has a fixed protagonist it's not an rpg. I know that means a game like The Witcher is no longer an RPG in this definition, but i'm okay with that, because deviating from this definition almost always results in oxymoron (ie. games that are definitely not RPGs get branded as such).

To address the OP's question: RPG really has nothing to do with the type of gameplay with this definition. Just because a game is or is not "action" has nothing to do with it being an RPG or not. So yes, an RPG can also be an action game.

So Gothics are not rpgs? Risens? Elex? But Fallout 4 is ok? This only proves that your definition is simply wrong.

Not willing to get into this tbh. But no Fallout 4 is also not an RPG due to having fixed protagonists.

Additionally, what's your definition of RPG? Do you even have one?

In Fallout 4 you create the protagonist by choosing his/her sex, stats and later also perks. It's basically a simpler system from previous Fallouts + minigame of creating the ugliest motherfucker in the Wasteland.

Sure, your PC's social role is fixed but it does not matter much in the game.

Or maybe you think Fallout 1 has a fixed protagonist - the Vault Dweller? Fallout 2 - the Chosen One? FNV - the Courier?

When it comes to definitions of the genre, I think the only inevitable element is advancement of your character(s) throughout the game by improving your stats and/or skills, possessions, spell selection.

I specifically said define a personality for a reason. For me the classic Fallouts are real RPGs because even though the PCs carry the title of Vault Dweler, who they are as a person or what they do is entirely up to the player which constitutes roleplaying for me. In contrast, Fallout 4 is NOT a real RPG because you have to play as a set character with minimal choice on their personality. You still do get to affect the outcome of the world and story, but that is by itself not enough to define an RPG, only in tandem with role creation.

The problem with you definition:
"When it comes to definitions of the genre, I think the only inevitable element is advancement of your character(s) throughout the game by improving your stats and/or skills, possessions, spell selection."
is that you will end up with games that are clearly not RPGs being labeled as such. For example, is Call of Duty multiplayer an RPG? You do have stats that improve (stats/skills), possessions (guns and gear), and other abilities (pseudo spells).

To me, gameplay elements have nothing to do with what makes a game an RPG. RPGs can be racing games, action games, management games, hell even VNs, so long as they allow you to create and express a personality to affect the world/story.
 

Lord_Potato

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
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Messages
9,835
Location
Free City of Warsaw
This is my attempt at defining an RPG (it's influenced by Obsidian and Bioware definitions): "An RPG is a game that allows you to DEFINE and EXPRESS a character (as in personality, not just stats) to meaningfully affect a game's world/outcome of a story."

To me no game would be an RPG if they don't satisfy the criteria here. If a game has a fixed protagonist it's not an rpg. I know that means a game like The Witcher is no longer an RPG in this definition, but i'm okay with that, because deviating from this definition almost always results in oxymoron (ie. games that are definitely not RPGs get branded as such).

To address the OP's question: RPG really has nothing to do with the type of gameplay with this definition. Just because a game is or is not "action" has nothing to do with it being an RPG or not. So yes, an RPG can also be an action game.

So Gothics are not rpgs? Risens? Elex? But Fallout 4 is ok? This only proves that your definition is simply wrong.

Not willing to get into this tbh. But no Fallout 4 is also not an RPG due to having fixed protagonists.

Additionally, what's your definition of RPG? Do you even have one?

In Fallout 4 you create the protagonist by choosing his/her sex, stats and later also perks. It's basically a simpler system from previous Fallouts + minigame of creating the ugliest motherfucker in the Wasteland.

Sure, your PC's social role is fixed but it does not matter much in the game.

Or maybe you think Fallout 1 has a fixed protagonist - the Vault Dweller? Fallout 2 - the Chosen One? FNV - the Courier?

When it comes to definitions of the genre, I think the only inevitable element is advancement of your character(s) throughout the game by improving your stats and/or skills, possessions, spell selection.

I specifically said define a personality for a reason. For me the classic Fallouts are real RPGs because even though the PCs carry the title of Vault Dweler, who they are as a person or what they do is entirely up to the player which constitutes roleplaying for me. In contrast, Fallout 4 is NOT a real RPG because you have to play as a set character with minimal choice on their personality. You still do get to affect the outcome of the world and story, but that is by itself not enough to define an RPG, only in tandem with role creation.

The problem with you definition:
"When it comes to definitions of the genre, I think the only inevitable element is advancement of your character(s) throughout the game by improving your stats and/or skills, possessions, spell selection."
is that you will end up with games that are clearly not RPGs being labeled as such. For example, is Call of Duty multiplayer an RPG? You do have stats that improve (stats/skills), possessions (guns and gear), and other abilities (pseudo spells).

To me, gameplay elements have nothing to do with what makes a game an RPG. RPGs can be racing games, action games, management games, hell even VNs, so long as they allow you to create and express a personality to affect the world/story.

I prefer a wide definition that does not exclude obvious rpgs like Gothics or Witchers. Even if it includes certain games that belong elsewhere.

I do not know CoD, never played itcand simply do not care, but as far as I know noone claims it to be a rpg. So no problem.

Trying to fit everything into a rigid definition is autistic. The borders between genres are fluid and ideas from rpgs inspire action or strategy games (and the other way round). I don't have problems woth this, unlike many people here.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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Messages
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To me RPGs are a weird genre in that you can think of any definition you'd like but you'd still find people who would disagree with you. The best way to proceed is to list game examples of what you consider to be RPGs, and then narrow down the common elements. And IMO, the more games you play, the easier it is to come up with a definition as you expand your knowledge and think "this game, which my personal definition didn't include, totally feels like an RPG". The more games you play, the more you can alter your definition.

For instance: is Chrono Trigger an RPG? JarlFrank discussed this with me in another thread.
  • You don't create your characters: no sex, no stats, no classes, nothing.
  • You can pick certain outcomes in the game, but ultimately your character personalities are set in stone.
  • Character development goes one way only. Your characters are literally the same in every single playthrough when it comes to leveling up and getting stronger.
Elements seen in Fallout, which is as undeniable an RPG as they come:
  • That stats influence your prowess in battle.
  • That you can increase said stats at will, i.e. you aren't limited to getting stronger by some arbitrary decision ("you need to pick a powerup to get stronger"). This is unlike Zelda games, where you absolutely need to explore in order to pick up items that increase your "stats".
  • That there is equipment with different stats.
But what about PES 2013?
  • You get to create your character.
  • Character development varies from character to character.
  • You get to pick special cards at certain points of your evolution, which add more abilities to your character.
  • Stats influence your prowess on the pitch. Literally everything you can do in-game is handled by a stat. If you have the AI handle your character, other stats will define define how the AI play (for instance, "Aggression").
  • You can increase said stats at will: as you use your different abilities (running, passing, crossing, etc.) your stats will gain experience at the end of matches.
  • There is equipment (boots) with different stats.
Ultimately I believe an RPG is an RPG not because of its elements, but because of what the core of the game is about. As you play Chrono Trigger, you can't help but feel that the core of the gameplay is to go on an adventure, with RPG elements symbolizing how you get stronger. As you play Fallout, you KNOW the core of the gameplay is to design your own character who is faced with obstacles he/she has to deal with. Same with Wizardry. Same with Deus Ex. This is basically true for every "RPG" where you get to create your own character from scratch, stat-wise (the difference between Planescape: Torment compared to The Witcher).

You can remove stats from The Witcher and rebuild the game around that idea, and barely anything would change. Do the same with Fallout, and watch the world burn as it did with Fallout 4.
 

Open Path

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The thing is that since Dingeon Master and Eye of the Beholder it has been accepted that Action RPG's are RPG's, mostly because aside from real-time combat they had everything that turn-based RPG's have as well.

Not really, Action rpgs definition has been used extensively -or probably at all- only recently, since last 90s and to describe simple click-click-click & drink potions popamoloids or hack & slash reflexes-based combat simulators with stats, but not Dungeon Master or EotB -or Ultima Underworld or Daggerfall, etc-, then a bunch of rpg experts -a couple of very specific games fanboys mostly- start to define rpgs only by combat type. But combat-fags are so wrong as cyoa-fags and story-fags. Crpgs are defined in first place by character stats relevance, character progression and a general design guided by those stats-based mechanics, with many minor perspectives defining sub-genres. This is not the only relevant perspective but the most consistent with crpg origins, history and goals. There is not such thing as pure rpg, if that definition doesn't include more than a half of cult-classics and seminal examples of crpgs.

Define action rpgs as every game with real-time combat is simplistic and incoherent. Lump together Dungeon Master, Ultima Underworld, Morrowind, Diablo, Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls as Action rpgs as opposed "pure" rpgs which are turn-based -Wizardrys, Fallout, Kotors, Dragon Ages and... Final Fantasy?...- is a false and obtuse dichotomy. Even more nonsensical Arcanum or Might & Magic could pass from Action rgp to pure rpg depending of your combat type choice?

Other codexers defined action rpgs in a more reasonable way as rpgs -or games with substantial rpg elements- in which player reflexes and coordination are a very relevant, mostly the main way to solve combats even if skills or character/party progression are presents. The old reflexes over character stats.


And while it makes more sense to call them action games with RPG elements

Dungeon Master is an action game now. :happytrollboy:


In some of the aforementioned real time rpgs character/s stats are more relevant to success than player skills, also a few of them include some of the best examples ever of exploration, character creation and skill system complexity, diversity of actions to solve problems, inventory systems and other features linked with a table top rpg experience or improving some of the original features that some of the pioneers of crpg genre included.

Turn based combat alone doesn't define a shit. Even with tactical relevance in combat, that's only one perspective of the many that have been defining crpgs since start of the genre and not the most relevant.
 
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