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Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
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Location
Wonderland
I've got about 70 effective atm. If I dump around 20 points into it, I'll get around 100 effective which will hopefully be enough. Do you actually get to walk around the pirate bases and such if you pass the persuasion checks?
I haven't tried it. I only managed to secure a deal of only having myself and myself alone to traverse their waters safely, while paying some charons for each laborer (also unarmed) who come with me should I need some extra hands. fantadomat admitted he's unable to approach the Ports without getting shot at, I'd assume this happens if you don't offer your services to the pirates.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
Anyway, game developers don't seem to know how shotguns actually work, and just copy what other game developers have been doing for several decades by theming them around stupidly short ranges, ludicrously huge cones of fire, and horrible penetration unless slugs are used, at which point they turn into shittier and more expensive high-caliber pistols.
I think they are well aware of how shotguns actually work, at least to a degree, it's just that most of the real life advantages and disadavantages of shotguns don't really translate very well into most video games, Underrail being one of them. The argueably greatest advantage shotguns have is the ability to hunt a wide variety of animals using different loads, from small game through birds in flight to big game. We don't hunt for meat in Underrail and there's no leather degradation based on the weapon used (and even if there was, hunting still wouldn't be a core mechanic), so that's out. The health system is not realistic enough to simulate shotgun's increased vital hit probability per shot, nor is combat fast paced enough (I'm talking a few seconds to end a fight, as is often the case in real life) for this to be a big factor. There's no door breaching either. Weapon ranges are far from realistic, so while shot shell pellets don't turn into marshmallows after a few yards/meters in real life, their effective range is in fact overwhelmingly shorter than that of a rifle, even with sabot slugs or rifled barrels. So really, the only meaningful design left is the usual "very powerful but short range" cliche. The shot shells are heavy as fuck in Underrail compared to other ammo types, so that's a plus from a realism perspective.

Now, I haven't used shotguns in Underrail yet myself, but I ask those of you who have: Why use shotguns and not ARs? I have a strong feeling ARs are far more powerful at a much more versatile selection of ranges and against both soft and hard targets.
It's been my concern from the the very moment shotguns were announced. But let's be honest, shotguns weren't added to fill any particular niches, all weapon available in the game before Expedition had them pretty much covered. They were added for the sheer cool factor and due to popular demand. At least they have a few cool feats that make them a little distinct, like ignoring most of enemy's evasion.
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,277
It's been my concern from the the very moment shotguns were announced. But let's be honest, shotguns weren't added to fill any particular niches, all weapon available in the game before Expedition had them pretty much covered.

This is how I kinda felt also, the new weapons don't quite hold up if you focus on them too exclusively, the base game both covers the biggest niches and has the most dependable weapons (gloves, SMGs, ARs)

At least they have a few cool feats that make them a little distinct, like ignoring most of enemy's evasion.

This is what should be emphasized the most to set shotguns apart from burst firearms, simulate the "multitude of pellets" aspect by making shotguns be less affected by things like evasion, disruptive fields, spatial projections, etc, the anti-evasion feat is a good start but I think that aspect could have been buffed more.
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
I did the first camp assault at level 15 and it was not hard at all. Is that what you're talking about?

No. I'm pretty sure I just said the second assault, didn't I?

EDIT: No matter what I do, if I'm keeping myself alive, Yahota dies. It's like five minutes into the battle there is such a massive swarm of enemies I can't imagine I could keep her alive at any level. Is it even possible??
 
Last edited:

Tacgnol

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Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Grab the Codex by the pussy RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Anyway, game developers don't seem to know how shotguns actually work, and just copy what other game developers have been doing for several decades by theming them around stupidly short ranges, ludicrously huge cones of fire, and horrible penetration unless slugs are used, at which point they turn into shittier and more expensive high-caliber pistols.
true to real life shotgun is basically a shittier rifle.
Shotguns are great for close quarters
In ww1 the Germans got so butthurt over the Winchester Model 97 they tried to get it banned
so it's basically a rifle with shittier stats but without short range penalty.

Shotguns are generally considered to be very versatile weapons in real life though. They can fulfil multiple different roles by changing ammo.

Even buckshot has significantly higher range than usually shown in video games.
 

Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
The above statement is true. You'd know that if you've actually fired a shotgun in real life.
 

Tygrende

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Is it even possible??
Z5Hh7cx.png
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath

I have no turrets on this second assault. I must have tried this 10 times or more and can't make it past the 7th round or so without either Yahota or myself dying. As I've said before, I've been playing Underrail since before it was called Underrail and I've never had even near this type of difficulty. If this is the day I have to stop playing this game, then this is a sad fucking day.

Again, is level 15 too low to be successful here?
 

Urthor

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
idk what you're talking about, you can main energy pistols pretty easily, it's not insanely good because well psi but it's good enough to finish the game with on not dominating pretty easily.
I found dominating pretty easy with them too. They're crazy strong once your build gets going.

I just tested the
Sonocaster
and it benefits from high technicality, so I'm pretty sure energy pistols is top tier on dominating regardless. A high technicality build is just unreal and you get *intellect* so you can be a *psionic* and then you don't need crit because you stack special ability goggles and max int
 

Tygrende

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Joined
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Messages
872
I have no turrets on this second assault. I must have tried this 10 times or more and can't make it past the 7th round or so without either Yahota or myself dying. As I've said before, I've been playing Underrail since before it was called Underrail and I've never had even near this type of difficulty. If this is the day I have to stop playing this game, then this is a sad fucking day.
Give me some details. Build? Difficulty? Do you have hacking? Have you tried trapping the entrances, and if not, do you have an earlier save to do that beforehand? Did you give up the medical supplies to muties? Did you give up any other supplies to pirates? Do you have hacking? Have you tried going to the tribal villages and commiting genocide?

There's a lot of factors that can play into invasions. And keep in mind, you do not have to keep the camp alive.
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Give me some details. Build? Difficulty? Do you have hacking? Have you tried trapping the entrances, and if not, do you have an earlier save to do that beforehand? Did you give up the medical supplies to muties? Did you give up any other supplies to pirates? Do you have hacking? Have you tried going to the tribal villages and commiting genocide? There's a lot of factors that can play into invasions. And keep in mind, you do not have to keep the camp alive.

  • Trying out a shotgun/psi build for this new playthrough.
  • Yes I have hacking (for what though?)
  • I didn't even think of that because I was not expecting to get a phone call about an invasion
  • I probably have an earlier save, but not sure if I have one in between my progress and the invasion
  • Yes
  • No. This literally happened on my way to the building at K7. I hadn't even met the pirates yet beyond the dudes on jetskis who wanted me to steal one from Aegis.
  • Nope. I did the first mission, came back, Marcus is like "Hey help the camp" and I set off exploring and got a phone call to check out two locations. Then got this invasion call on my way to the first one I was going to check out.
  • I was mostly concerned about keeping Yahota alive because she seemed like an important NPC.
 

Wunderbar

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Nov 15, 2015
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8,809
Shotguns are generally considered to be very versatile weapons in real life though. They can fulfil multiple different roles by changing ammo.

Even buckshot has significantly higher range than usually shown in video games.
shotguns are portrayed this way not because devs are stupid, but because usually video game mechanics aren't deep enough to make shotguns both realistic and distinctive. How do you make realistic shotgun in an isometric game where sniper rifles have a pitiful range of one screen?
 

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
I don't main ARs in UR because they're boring - you just shoot wherever you are and move around and do whatever you want and you're fine.

Yeah, it's an absolute Chad of a weapon. It's even an efficient one thanks to select-fire, allowing you pop off single shots (or just a few, with a feat) at weaker targets rather than full-autoing everything.

It's so strong that Styg invented the concept of "unconditional special attacks" for the sole purpose of decoupling AR burst fire from the special attack bonuses granted by goggles and some feats. It affects SMGs as well, and Heavy Punch was made an unconditional too for the sake of plausible deniability, but we all know the real reason.

To me Underrail's particular tortuous delight comes in meticulously setting up the battlefield for your particular build to shine, whether it's melee or snipering or ambush from dark or whatever, all the while knowing if the enemy can disrupt your ideal conditions you are fucked. AR always seemed to me to get rid of that complexity.

Enjoying muh tactical complexity is one of the things stealth psi is really great for.
 

Sykar

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Dec 2, 2014
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Turn right after Alpha Centauri
Ok I thought that you can lower the price for Hercules drug with 70 mercantile. I was wrong, I just tried it, once with 70 and now with 80 to no avail. Scratching my head as to why this fucker has such high requirements when iirc you merely save 100 Charons.
 

Urthor

Prophet
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Infused Sea Wrym Scale leather armor better than triple super steel now btw for fabric skillers, the DT on that *leather* armor penalty is absolutely outrageous
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
  • Trying out a shotgun/psi build for this new playthrough.
  • Yes I have hacking (for what though?)
  • I didn't even think of that because I was not expecting to get a phone call about an invasion
  • I probably have an earlier save, but not sure if I have one in between my progress and the invasion
  • Yes
  • No. This literally happened on my way to the building at K7. I hadn't even met the pirates yet beyond the dudes on jetskis who wanted me to steal one from Aegis.
  • Nope. I did the first mission, came back, Marcus is like "Hey help the camp" and I set off exploring and got a phone call to check out two locations. Then got this invasion call on my way to the first one I was going to check out.
  • I was mostly concerned about keeping Yahota alive because she seemed like an important NPC.

Shotgun builds can find invasions a bit difficult because there's pretty much no corners to play around with and you need to get close for good damage, so you are bound to take a few hits. You did the 1st quest, so I assume the Arch Keep is open? If so:
There's a computer inside the Keep, you can use it to activate 1-2 plasma turrets on the beach with hacking. You can also activate the Naga statue that is right there on the beach with high enough hacking and electronics. That should be enough to even the odds.
Yahota isn't essential, the most important thing about her is that she's an amazing ally during invasions and can give you some useful info on enemy activity and movements of a certain someone.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
Ah,i see you are a man of culture also-sniper with pistol sidearm instead of the smg every autist proposes in his builds.
Pistols may have less sheer DPS, but get a +7 initiative bonus and 30% crit damage from Sharpshooter you are taking anyways, further multiplied by Critical Power. Sheer damage is not that important for me on a weapon that's only reserved for when I'm stuck against a wall or suffering from a few stacks of crippling strike. Pistols still could use a buff, though.


Also could you plz post screens of the shotguns(not the uniques).the wiki is updated daily but the shotguns are not in yet.
SB3AQPG.png

57K2423.png

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AeEcRLc.png

VXpzpA6.png

Hs80trI.png
 

ciox

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 9, 2016
Messages
1,277
So it's true that semiauto shotguns use the quality*0.8 formula like SMGs while auto shotguns use the quality*0.96 formula like ARs when it comes to mechanics skill requirement, intredasting.
 

TwinkieGorilla

does a good job.
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Messages
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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
Shotgun builds can find invasions a bit difficult because there's pretty much no corners to play around with and you need to get close for good damage, so you are bound to take a few hits. You did the 1st quest, so I assume the Arch Keep is open? If so:
There's a computer inside the Keep, you can use it to activate 1-2 plasma turrets on the beach with hacking. You can also activate the Naga statue that is right there on the beach with high enough hacking and electronics. That should be enough to even the odds.
Yahota isn't essential, the most important thing about her is that she's an amazing ally during invasions and can give you some useful info on enemy activity and movements of a certain someone.

Yeah exactly. I am basically forced to either hide or get completely toasted during this second invasion. The one time I actually made progress in the invasion I was up near the front sandbag on the left side of the screen and eventually died because a fucking ally NPC blocked my movement for two rounds. Yay. And those turrets must have been destroyed in the previous invasion because there ain't shit there now. As for the statue, I fucked with it but the game told me there was nothing doing. So I guess I'd be forced to level up in the base game and come back to this DLC later or turn the difficulty down on this invasion...which is something I've never had to do before and fucking kills me to think of doing.
 

Tygrende

Arbiter
Joined
Aug 2, 2017
Messages
872
And those turrets must have been destroyed in the previous invasion because there ain't shit there now.
I find this highly unlikely, plasma turrets are pretty tanky and tribals focus on them very rarely. It had like 98% HP after all invasions on DOMINATING for me. Go to to Arch Keep and play around with the computers a little bit more. Maybe your hacking isn't good enough, dunno.

As for the statue, I fucked with it but the game told me there was nothing doing
Probably just your hacking and/or electronics were too low.

So I guess I'd be forced to level up in the base game and come back to this DLC later or turn the difficulty down on this invasion...which is something I've never had to do before and fucking kills me to think of doing.
Invasion timer stops when you leave Black Sea, so there's that. Or you can let the invasion auto-resolve by ignoring it, which will result in significantly more trooper deaths, while you go north and genocide some tribals. But, as I said, you don't need to keep the camp alive.
 

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