Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[Yosharian]

As I mentioned in Shoutbox, Stankmaker actually picked up a bit in quality after I became Baron and started traveling around. Once your character picks up some levels (around level 6+) and you pick better fits for your party, the whole things becomes more effective, so you don't need to cheese your way out of every tough fight with potions and hard cc disables. However, just as I said this, I ran into Hargulka fight. Again, the kind of shitty balance this game thrives on. Tartuk cast Haste on him, and he just buzz-sawed through my 33 AC Valerie and the rest of the party in about 2.5 seconds. I cast Dispell Magic on the ugly troll, but either it didn't work, or he has an inherent haste (or some ridiculous BAB which gives him insane attacks per round), so he again buzz-sawed through the whole party (maybe 3.5 seconds this time).

So I had to resort to cheese again: had Linzi cast glitterdust on him, and used a Haste scroll on my 2 handed main. Easy win, but feels cheap because my builds weren't really used, just hard disables (the blind) and non-build related buffs (haste). Would've been a lot more fun if he wasn't so insanely inflated, and I could defeat him using my actual party builds.

Level 6+ and only 33AC? Anyway, core rules or higher?

Also how is using one spell and a scroll 'cheese'? Wtf

 

[Shadenuat]

Yes it is for new players but those players also don't know to prepare Death Ward or Restoration and they don't bring enough rations and get stuck in the tomb and whine on forums. They also ignore all the ability damage they received from fighting the Sisters and whine how tomb is killing them.

Can't argue with that. But designer's job is to have clear conscience knowing they did what they could to provide hints and helpful tools for the players, not to play game for them.

 

[Yosharian]

Yes it is for new players but those players also don't know to prepare Death Ward or Restoration and they don't bring enough rations and get stuck in the tomb and whine on forums. They also ignore all the ability damage they received from fighting the Sisters and whine how tomb is killing them.

Can't argue with that. But designer's job is to have clear conscience knowing they did what they could to provide hints and helpful tools for the players, not to play game for them.

This should be easily solved by having appropriate difficulty settings.

For example, there should be a difficulty setting called something like 'Guidance for New Players', and then when the player enters specific areas such as dungeons, there is a dialog box saying stuff like 'There are undead enemies here that use death magic: consider bring a Cleric with the Death Ward spell' or 'There are spider enemies here that use poison: consider using the Cleric spell Restoration to restore poisoned attribute scores'.

These settings should be entirely separate from the standard difficulty choice, instead it asks you before you start if you're experienced with D&D or are new to D&D, and your choice determines this extra layer of tutorial that helps new players.

This kind of thing is easily solved really, but instead either we get old-school style which pleases D&D veterans but pisses off newbies who refuse to RTFM, or we get dumbed-down moronic gameplay that holds your hand every step of the way which pleases newbies but pisses off veterans who don't want to be told how to play D&D.

 

[Desiderius]

As I mentioned in Shoutbox, Stankmaker actually picked up a bit in quality after I became Baron and started traveling around. Once your character picks up some levels (around level 6+) and you pick better fits for your party, the whole things becomes more effective, so you don't need to cheese your way out of every tough fight with potions and hard cc disables. However, just as I said this, I ran into Hargulka fight. Again, the kind of shitty balance this game thrives on. Tartuk cast Haste on him, and he just buzz-sawed through my 33 AC Valerie and the rest of the party in about 2.5 seconds. I cast Dispell Magic on the ugly troll, but either it didn't work, or he has an inherent haste (or some ridiculous BAB which gives him insane attacks per round), so he again buzz-sawed through the whole party (maybe 3.5 seconds this time).

So I had to resort to cheese again: had Linzi cast glitterdust on him, and used a Haste scroll on my 2 handed main. Easy win, but feels cheap because my builds weren't really used, just hard disables (the blind) and non-build related buffs (haste). Would've been a lot more fun if he wasn't so insanely inflated, and I could defeat him using my actual party builds.

Level 6+ and only 33AC? Anyway, core rules or higher?

Also how is using one spell and a scroll 'cheese'? Wtf

The spell was a hard disable (in his mind, in reality Glitterdust is only a temporary solution even when it hits) so it was Linzi killing the troll, not his MC. By cheese he means both trivially good and relying on the RNG to beat the save.

He’d be better off learning how to employ things like archon’s aura, slow, good hope, prayer and the various intimidate mechanics (like dazzling display) while also getting his characters reasonably geared up to shift the fight in his favor rather than making it trivial via a lucky save roll.

 

[Jarpie]

As I mentioned in Shoutbox, Stankmaker actually picked up a bit in quality after I became Baron and started traveling around. Once your character picks up some levels (around level 6+) and you pick better fits for your party, the whole things becomes more effective, so you don't need to cheese your way out of every tough fight with potions and hard cc disables. However, just as I said this, I ran into Hargulka fight. Again, the kind of shitty balance this game thrives on. Tartuk cast Haste on him, and he just buzz-sawed through my 33 AC Valerie and the rest of the party in about 2.5 seconds. I cast Dispell Magic on the ugly troll, but either it didn't work, or he has an inherent haste (or some ridiculous BAB which gives him insane attacks per round), so he again buzz-sawed through the whole party (maybe 3.5 seconds this time).

So I had to resort to cheese again: had Linzi cast glitterdust on him, and used a Haste scroll on my 2 handed main. Easy win, but feels cheap because my builds weren't really used, just hard disables (the blind) and non-build related buffs (haste). Would've been a lot more fun if he wasn't so insanely inflated, and I could defeat him using my actual party builds.

Level 6+ and only 33AC? Anyway, core rules or higher?

Also how is using one spell and a scroll 'cheese'? Wtf

 

[Cryomancer]

For example, there should be a difficulty setting called something like 'Guidance for New Players', and then when the player enters specific areas such as dungeons, there is a dialog box saying stuff like 'There are undead enemies here that use death magic: consider bring a Cleric with the Death Ward spell' or 'There are spider enemies here that use poison: consider using the Cleric spell Restoration to restore poisoned attribute scores'.

There are an option to remove negative effects like blind and level drain on resting. IMO the problem with tutorial, is that people will ignore and criticize the game...

 

[Cael]

For example, there should be a difficulty setting called something like 'Guidance for New Players', and then when the player enters specific areas such as dungeons, there is a dialog box saying stuff like 'There are undead enemies here that use death magic: consider bring a Cleric with the Death Ward spell' or 'There are spider enemies here that use poison: consider using the Cleric spell Restoration to restore poisoned attribute scores'.

There are an option to remove negative effects like blind and level drain on resting. IMO the problem with tutorial, is that people will ignore and criticize the game...

Negative levels. They normally go away after 24 hours anyway, except if you fail that Fort save, you're royally screwed.

 

[Desiderius]

Even more Jubi has his quest there at entrance. Jubi + Ekun = troll deff.

honestly Owlcats do it too much for my taste, "hey u go to undead tomb of undead take CLERIC with you" - later
players: wer stuck at undead dungon don't have a cleric ((

The utterly bizarre thing tho is that it’s extraordinarily easy to miss Jub (thereby hosing your kingdom management) and Ekun altogether unless you’re reading online guides about where to find them.

The natural thing to do is to explore your new barony, in which case there is no reason to go back to those areas once troll trouble starts and no quests send you there...

 

[ArchAngel]

Even more Jubi has his quest there at entrance. Jubi + Ekun = troll deff.

honestly Owlcats do it too much for my taste, "hey u go to undead tomb of undead take CLERIC with you" - later
players: wer stuck at undead dungon don't have a cleric ((

The utterly bizarre thing tho is that it’s extraordinarily easy to miss Jub (thereby hosing your kingdom management) and Ekun altogether unless you’re reading online guides about where to find them.

The natural thing to do is to explore your new barony, in which case there is no reason to go back to those areas once troll trouble starts and no quests send you there...

In my games those areas got a red ! when Troll Trouble started. Also there is a Troll Trouble quest that sends you to Ekun area. Also now in EE they made is so at least Jubilost appears in your capital later if you missed him previously.

 

[Daidre]

Iirc when "Show location names" switched on for World Map, all places with new events as chapters progress will show huge red mark in the names. Difficult to miss if you have seen this at least once.

 

[ArchAngel]

Iirc when "Show location names" switched on for World Map, all places with new events as chapters progress will show huge red mark in the names. Difficult to miss if you have seen this at least once.

And sometimes when there is nothing new there :D

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The first time I ran into Ekun, I saw his avatar and yelled Fluent !!!

 

[Cael]

The first time I ran into Ekun, I saw his avatar and yelled Fluent !!!

And then you filled the bastard with metal?

 

[Desiderius]

The first time I ran into Ekun, I saw his avatar and yelled Fluent !!!

Fluent, articulate, and magically busted as all get out with Devourer of Metal.

Every companion tweaks American hangups, bar none. It’s a Russian plot!

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

The first time I ran into Ekun, I saw his avatar and yelled Fluent !!!

And then you filled the bastard with metal?

Don't be silly. I had Linzi prance around him singing "Fallout 4 sucks, Fallout 4 sucks..."

 

[Cael]

The first time I ran into Ekun, I saw his avatar and yelled Fluent !!!

And then you filled the bastard with metal?

Don't be silly. I had Linzi prance around him singing "Fallout 4 sucks, Fallout 4 sucks..."

Fate worse than death for him.

 

[krilcebre]

Guys, does Kineticist class come with one of the DLCs, because I can't see it in my character creator. Game is up to date.

 

[Desiderius]

Guys, does Kineticist class come with one of the DLCs, because I can't see it in my character creator. Game is up to date.

Yes, Wildcards DLC.

Speaking of DLC, has anyone opened up any of the little secret rooms on each lvl of the Tenebrous Depths in the main game?

 

[purpleblob]

Guys, does Kineticist class come with one of the DLCs, because I can't see it in my character creator. Game is up to date.

Yes, Wildcards DLC.

Speaking of DLC, has anyone opened up any of the little secret rooms on each lvl of the Tenebrous Depths in the main game?

Edit: Nevermind, I didn't play DLC in the main game.

Yeah, I managed to find secret room(s) in almost every level. Sometimes there are more than 1 per level. Some secret rooms have no loot (unless I failed very high perception check) and some has enemies in them. A number of secret rooms near the level entrance were blocked for me even if I revealed them *roll eye*.

 

[Desiderius]

Guys, does Kineticist class come with one of the DLCs, because I can't see it in my character creator. Game is up to date.

Yes, Wildcards DLC.

Speaking of DLC, has anyone opened up any of the little secret rooms on each lvl of the Tenebrous Depths in the main game?

Edit: Nevermind, I didn't play DLC in the main game.

Yeah, I managed to find secret room(s) in almost every level. Sometimes there are more than 1 per level. Some secret rooms have no loot (unless I failed very high perception check) and some has enemies in them. A number of secret rooms near the level entrance were blocked for me even if I revealed them *roll eye*.

No, I have multiple toons with very high perception - I’ve found all the regular hidden (purple) doors and areas. There’s just a 1x1 closet that you can see but can’t get to on each level.

I’m guessing you’ve got to put something in a chest(s?) to open them up but haven’t had any luck.

 

[Yosharian]

The utterly bizarre thing tho is that it’s extraordinarily easy to miss Jub (thereby hosing your kingdom management)

I had to try several times to get the right solution to Jubilost's little problem.

 

[Yosharian]

For example, there should be a difficulty setting called something like 'Guidance for New Players', and then when the player enters specific areas such as dungeons, there is a dialog box saying stuff like 'There are undead enemies here that use death magic: consider bring a Cleric with the Death Ward spell' or 'There are spider enemies here that use poison: consider using the Cleric spell Restoration to restore poisoned attribute scores'.

There are an option to remove negative effects like blind and level drain on resting. IMO the problem with tutorial, is that people will ignore and criticize the game...

Yes, but we're talking about people who are too stupid to figure out how to memorize spells. Game journalists, for example. We can't expect these kinds of people to go searching in the difficulty menu for solutions to their gripes. Instead, it has to pop up in front of them and literally ask them ARE YOU NEW TO D&D? IF YES, CLICK HERE. That's the only thing that will actually work with idiots like that. Tailoring the difficulty settings to their desires is something that is beyond these people, clearly.

 

[Cryomancer]

Yes, but we're talking about people who are too stupid to figure out how to memorize spells. Game journalists, for example. We can't expect these kinds of people to go searching in the difficulty menu for solutions to their gripes. Instead, it has to pop up in front of them and literally ask them ARE YOU NEW TO D&D? IF YES, CLICK HERE. That's the only thing that will actually work with idiots like that. Tailoring the difficulty settings to their desires is something t arehat is beyond these people, clearly.

Yes, you are right. Modern game journalists will never look into the settings. They criticize Pathfinder Kingmaker by dumb thins like "i can't kill an insect swarm with an axe", as for permanent effects, the first RPG of my life was M&M VII. Petrification is expensive to reverse on temples and require an spell that could not work depending how much time the party member is petrified, other spells ages your character and aging change your character attributes, in the tutorial island(Emerald), one of the quests is to take an item from an dragon cave. I while child din't had problems understanding that i an not supposed to kill an dragon at low level, only to pick the item and run. Adult game journalists who are supposed to be professionals can't understand things that an children in a game in a "outsider language" could understand easily(if is not clear by my awful grammar, English isn't my native language)

Only an minor correction. They should ask if the player is new to pathfinder or 3.5e D&D, because someone who only played 4e D&D will have problems adapting to pathfinder system

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

So I'm finally convinced that this game is done, and am going to make my first run. I have a question about party composition though. I plan on running:

Arcane Trickster (MC)
Harrim
Jaethal
Jubilost
Nok-Nok
Rongongar

Will this party be a pain? It's a bit squishy and nuanced, so it will require micro--but I'm ok with that. But is it too squishy? I'm also under the impression that attrition is a large part of this game though (timers, resting, etc). Also, will it take me a significant portion of the game to gather this party? Thanks!

 

[Desiderius]

Nok-nok is a little over halfway thru the game. The others are significantly earlier.

No bard and no Ekun is definitely more challenging.