CODEX VOTE: Best REAL-TIME Blobbers Of All Time (Non-Anime)

[octavius]

The original version was for Atari ST. If I'm not mistaken that one did not have directional sound, but the Amiga version did.
Haven't tried the Windows versions, but I would probably go with Paul R. Stevens's versions. He has a good reputation.

 

[Ivan]

What's a good blobber for someone who's only played & enjoyed Grimrock? I liked the puzzle solving, I could leave the combat.

 

[octavius]

Dungeon Master!

 

[V_K]

What's a good blobber for someone who's only played & enjoyed Grimrock? I liked the puzzle solving, I could leave the combat.

Dungeon Master, Anvil of Dawn, Legacy: Realm of Terror - the latter two aren't technically blobbers (only one character) but very similar gameplay-wise.
Then there are puzzle-heavy turn-based blobbers: all of Bradley's Wizardries, Wizards&Warriors, Gates of Skeldal and 7 Mages.

 

[mondblut]

Current results for best real-time blobbers:

1. Eye of the Beholder (14 votes)
2. Legend of Grimrock 2 (13 votes)
3. Dungeon Master (12 votes)
4. Lands of Lore (10 votes)
5. Eye of the Beholder 2 (9 votes)
6. Legend of Grimrock (9 votes)
   
7. Dungeon Master: Chaos Strikes Back (5 votes)
8. Ishar Trilogy (5 votes)
9. Stonekeep (5 votes)
10. Demise: Rise Of The Ku'Tan (4 votes)
11. Menzoberranzan (4 votes)

Menzoberranzan above Ravenloft? What the fuck is wrong with you people?

 

[V_K]

Current results for best real-time blobbers:

1. Eye of the Beholder (14 votes)
2. Legend of Grimrock 2 (13 votes)
3. Dungeon Master (12 votes)
4. Lands of Lore (10 votes)
5. Eye of the Beholder 2 (9 votes)
6. Legend of Grimrock (9 votes)
   
7. Dungeon Master: Chaos Strikes Back (5 votes)
8. Ishar Trilogy (5 votes)
9. Stonekeep (5 votes)
10. Demise: Rise Of The Ku'Tan (4 votes)
11. Menzoberranzan (4 votes)

Menzoberranzan above Ravenloft? What the fuck is wrong with you people?

That's what bothers you? Not EotB being anywhere near the top?

 

[Lady_Error]

What's wrong with EotB being on the top?

 

[V_K]

Crap level desing? D&D not working with the RT blobber format?

 

[Lady_Error]

Personally I like the atmosphere of EotB2 much more. But yeah, the combat is a bit of a clusterfuck. Not as bad as in Grimrock though.

 

[mondblut]

That's what bothers you? Not EotB being anywhere near the top?

EOB always was the baby's first RPG for everyone older than Fallout (and younger than mammoth dung), no surprise here. Besides, I can't really imagine how and why would, say, Dungeon Master or whatever suck any less than EOB. All RT blobbers are shit. No exceptions.

But choosing Menzoberranzan over Ravenloft... euch, ignorant!

 

[mondblut]

Also, listing two iterations of the same game separately (three if we count Mordor) yet lumping the entire Ishar series together...

 

[Martyr]

I think Ravenloft is miles better than Menzo, still had fun with Menzo though, so I voted for them both.
what surprises me however, is that Menzo seems to be older than Ravenloft?! I always thought Menzo was a Drizzt inspired rip off take on the Ravenloft engine.
and what mondblut says about EotB was and seemingly still is true. I'm not that old and yet EotB was also my first blobber. before I even knew the term "blobber" and what it meant, I always wanted to play EotB. dunno why, it probably has a good reputation. the lines blur, if you spend enough time on the Codex.

 

[V_K]

I always thought Menzo was a Drizzt inspired rip off take on the Ravenloft engine.

It was. The list is mistaken.

EOB always was the baby's first RPG for everyone older than Fallout (and younger than mammoth dung)

My first RPG was Diablo, yet it took me only a couple of better games (namely, RoA3 and QfG4) to realize what a turd it was.

But yeah, the combat is a bit of a clusterfuck. Not as bad as in Grimrock though.

Second Grimrock's combat is miles better because it is supported by a character system designed specifically for this kind of gameplay. Which D&D isn't.

 

[mondblut]

what surprises me however, is that Menzo seems to be older than Ravenloft?! I always thought Menzo was a Drizzt inspired rip off take on the Ravenloft engine.

It was. MZB followed the first Ravenloft and was followed by the second.

 

[Brozef]

Real time blobbers where a mistake. The combat is inherently retarded without the mindless 'fun' of arpgs or the lawnmower style of later mm. Therefore I think the only ones are those that bring something original to the table or are somehow more flavorful. Like the FMV style of stonekeep, the strangeness of Ishtar or the adventure and amazing graphics (for its time) of lands of lore...

 

[octavius]

The combat could be passable if you could use the real time environment against enemies, like you could to a certain degree in DM and CSB, but not in later games. DM and CSB were also slower and had more options in combat, like different ways to swing weapons with different cool down times, making it more tactical.
Later games were so dumbed down combatwise and in most other respects.

But to me what makes CSB so great is the mapping challenge and the puzzles.

 

[V_K]

Combat just isn't the focus of RT blobbers - enemies are only one of the interlinked elements that make the puzzlebox of the dungeon, along with teleporters, pits, switches etc. They're integrated in the environment and interact with other systems following the same rules as your party - otherwise it just wouldn't work. In a good RT blobber, as octavius said, you can use environments against enemies, but also use the enemies to solve puzzles - and enemies, in turn, can use environments against you. It's all connected. But of course combatfags are gonna whine about combat as if it's the only thing there is to RPGs.

like you could to a certain degree in DM and CSB, but not in later games

Grimrocks have this too, although I don't remember if to the same degree. And LoG2 had those fun Leprechaun encounters where he'd try to open pits right below your party.
No Westwood games do, though, which is why they have no business being anywhere near the top 10

 

[Excommunicator]

Ravenloft!

 

[Excommunicator]

Also cannot even understand how someone would prefer the hack and slash of a game like Diablo over the hack n slash of a game like Ravenloft

 

[Brozef]

The combat could be passable if you could use the real time environment against enemies, like you could to a certain degree in DM and CSB, but not in later games. DM and CSB were also slower and had more options in combat, like different ways to swing weapons with different cool down times, making it more tactical.
Later games were so dumbed down combatwise and in most other respects.

But to me what makes CSB so great is the mapping challenge and the puzzles.

I think the combat is better the more it resembles turn based combat. That is why DM works better than the newer versions. The more it uses the real time aspect the dumber it becomes until it basically becomes a rhythm game where you can cheese everything by just dancing around.
I have never felt like the real time aspect added anything of value instead I always feel like it substracted from what could be a great games. And in the end I blame real time for basically roving us of half of the great blobbers we could have had.

 

[V_K]

I have never felt like the real time aspect added anything of value

Technically, it adds speed consideration. In a game like MM3, every action of every entity takes exactly one turn so you can't e.g. outrun an enemy once you realize combat isn't going great. A lot of environment mechanics (slamming a portcullis on an enemy, falling down a pit etc.) require very precise and granular timing that you can't have in a fully TB blobber.
That said, the addition of the autopause option in Vaporum was quite brilliant, and more RT blobbers should have it.

 

[Lady_Error]

I thought that the combat in Stonekeep was more bearable, since it is one of only a few blobbers with RTwP. Though it also kind of devolved into finding long corridors and always taking a step back before the enemy hits.

 

[Martyr]

I thought that the combat in Stonekeep was more bearable, since it is one of only a few blobbers with RTwP.

I personally don't share the strong dislike for RTwP that most people here seem to have. au contraire, imo RTwP can make games (more specifically: real time blobbers and top down action RPGs) better.

 

[Lady_Error]

Of course RTwP is always better than pure RT. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. Which is also why it is surprising that there haven't been more RTwP blobbers.

 

[V_K]

Of course RTwP is always better than pure RT

All other things being equal - probably. But e.g. Ultima Underworld is a better game combat-wise than Ultima 7.
Basically, I think RTwP only works for games where you don't have to move more than one entity - the party-blob in blobbers or single character in top-down games. Once you have to position multiple units, RTwP doesn't really give you any advantage over pure RT.