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Weapons

SymbolicFrank

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Let's say you have a big, empty room and six combatants. They are armed with at most a single weapon. The first with nothing, the others with a knife, sword, pistol, SMG and assault rifle. And all the ammo required. They can all don whatever armor they like. And they all have average stats.

Who wins?
 

octavius

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The one with the knife.
He plays dead, and when the others have duked it out he stabs the winner from behind.
 

Swigen

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giphy.gif
 

Jacob

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Everyone would wear power armor and it would turn into a knife fight, so of course the knife guy would win.
 

laclongquan

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Best Kevlar antibullet armor with all the chicken plates. And I mean all. So heavy you cant even walk. This will deal with all the bullets and knife to your body.

Press the trigger and hold it down.

Assault Rifle full auto fire. Hose the room. You barely need to aim, because a room.

Pray like hell that ricochet doesnt send a bullet to your unprotected face. Also pray that they only have time to aim at your body instead of your head.

In that stupid closed room, ricochet will send the bullets flying every which way. No one can escape.
 

Barbalos

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I'd say SMG, depending on how big the room is. If it's really large, the AR. If it's a bit more confined, a melee or the SMG user will have an advantage over the AR if one of them gets close enough to give the larger rifle user problems with maneuvering to aim and fire at extremely close range. And the SMG will win against those melee weapons at that closer range.
 

SymbolicFrank

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So, wouldn't it be logical in an RPG to start off without weapons and slowly graduate towards automatic rifles? Instead of being able to kill that group of minigun wielding guys in advanced armor with your bare hands or a knife?
 

JarlFrank

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Assault Rifle full auto fire. Hose the room. You barely need to aim, because a room.

You're out of ammo in 3 seconds.

What now?

EDIT:
This is what full auto with an assault rifle looks like
Reload your mag every 3 seconds
Yeah, hosing the room would work super well with that
 
Last edited:

SymbolicFrank

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It's quite hard to keep fully auto weapons pointing at the target as well. An UZI is quite point-and-click, because it has a 3KG weight to counter the recoil, but it will still move around. An FN P90 is probably the ultimate room sweeper, with lots of light ammo. But a long-range full-auto gun takes a tripod and three or more people to carry it.

So, a big room is about the right environment.
 

SymbolicFrank

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Btw, I think Fallout actually did it right. You progress from a knife to a sniper rifler or plasma gun, and it even makes sense that you can be good in melee or carry a minigun when you're wearing power armor. Remove that, and it stops making sense.
 

Kutulu

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Guns win, in this order: Assault rifle > Smg > Pistol

Smgs are largely out of fashion, even for room clearing many rather use a short rifle.
 

Falksi

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Jedi is weilding the sword, which is a laser sword, also known as a "lightsaber"

All others are wiped out in an instant.
 

laclongquan

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Assault Rifle full auto fire. Hose the room. You barely need to aim, because a room.

You're out of ammo in 3 seconds.

What now?

EDIT:
This is what full auto with an assault rifle looks like
Reload your mag every 3 seconds
Yeah, hosing the room would work super well with that


I see some people need me being rather more detailed than being quick and snappy. Fine

1. With the conditional: all ammo required. I translated that to be using modded equipment, not out-of-factory stuffs. Thus the usual 30rd magazine is not considered, but the 100rd drum magazine or more, is what being implied here.

2. The conditional: Assault Rifle. Nothing specific. So it would mean something unusual rather than the popular AR15, AK47, or stuff~ I provide AK47 sample out of consideration for popular taste, but personally I fall into something like



The unusual .22 caliber


Ten second of hosing, dawgs! And I absolutely have no fear of ricochet because it would not break the antibullet armor full of chicken plates.
After ten seconds of doom, I will have 5 or more seconds of vulnerable while changing magazine. That is the chance for any survivors who can act.
 
Last edited:

SymbolicFrank

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Smgs are largely out of fashion, even for room clearing many rather use a short rifle.

That has more to do with logistics and training than them being better. For full auto you need light bullets and/or a heavy gun. An M4 is too light for the ammo and still quite long.

Edit: cutting off part of the barrel of an M4 wouldn't work, because as it is much of the pressure is already wasted. The bullets are made for longer barrels.

Edit2: This is a 5.7x28 (P90) compared to a 5.56x45 (M16):

126px-SS197_223_comparo.jpg


If you have a short barrel, you need less powder. The optimal bullet for an M4 would be in between these two.
 
Last edited:

Kutulu

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Smgs are largely out of fashion, even for room clearing many rather use a short rifle.

That has more to do with logistics and training than them being better. For full auto you need light bullets and/or a heavy gun. An M4 is too light for the ammo and still quite long.

Edit: cutting off part of the barrel of an M4 wouldn't work, because as it is much of the pressure is already wasted. The bullets are made for longer barrels.

Edit2: This is a 5.7x28 (P90) compared to a 5.56x45 (M16):

126px-SS197_223_comparo.jpg


If you have a short barrel, you need less powder. The optimal bullet for an M4 would be in between these two.

Yeah, no, because thats exactly what they do... they just take short barreld m4's and they arent too light as 5.56 has no recoil anyway.
91944a61bdf448f08b5ef59c71b3d0a7.jpg


Theres also the fact that no gun ever replaced the mp5, its the pinnacle of SMGs, pretty much all units that still have a use for SMGs still use MP5s. There was never a large scale adoption of: Vectors, MPX's, MP7s, Umps or P90s.
And theres enough military & police units that have free choice in weapons.

Also Full Auto fire isnt used very often at all, on any level.

------
Just google things like: swat, gsg9, sas etc (with minus -tv -show -series -movie -airsoft) and 70% of weapons will be SBR's (short barreld rifles) and the rest will be MP5s (with the odd marksman rifle & breaching shotgun here and there).
 

SymbolicFrank

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Yes, and all the guns in that picture will be about equally effective.

Not only is normal 5.56 ammo needlessly heavy, but most of the energy will be in the huge muzzle flash, instead of used to propel the bullet. And slow bullets have much less energy (mass times speed squared). At that point a P90, which uses an amount of powder specially designed for it, will be more effective.

Popular is not the same as effective.
 

Kutulu

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Aeh no... its still much faster than 9mm, even at 10.3" 5.56 will still do 2500 ft/s* and easily defeat various types of body armour. While 9mm wont even go through level 2a soft body armor, regardless of barrel length & as said before when
you say smg most ppl think: uzi or mp5 not p90. And the AR will be faster to reload and have a better trigger than the P90 (and yes ive shot a p90, the trigger is garbage like the vast majority of bullpup weapons).


*which is faster than the P90 while shooting a heavier (and ever so slightly slimmer) bullet.
 
Last edited:

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
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So, wouldn't it be logical in an RPG to start off without weapons and slowly graduate towards automatic rifles? Instead of being able to kill that group of minigun wielding guys in advanced armor with your bare hands or a knife?

Sounds very not fun
 

Gregz

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Let's say you have a big, empty room and six combatants. They are armed with at most a single weapon. The first with nothing, the others with a knife, sword, pistol, SMG and assault rifle. And all the ammo required. They can all don whatever armor they like. And they all have average stats.

Who wins?

Depends entirely on the size of the room, which you neglected to define.
 

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