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Decline On the consequences of buttons

Gregz

Arcane
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
8,510
Location
The Desert Wasteland
There was a discussion on how buttons have changed our discourse here, I think rusty_shackleford's solution is a good one.

Please bear with the tl;dr

  1. Papa Môlé:
    i dunno. criticize codex's overrated "classics" like planescape and they turn into sensitive snowflakes pretty quick
  2. agentorange:
    only certain posters. i think theres a lot of threads where you can see fair discussions about the faults of games like planescape
  3. Ranselknulf:
    i'm offended by that picture gregz, cats are impure
  4. Gregz:
    eh, PM is right tho, go against the KKK at your peril
  5. Gregz:
    you have two cats flunk lol
  6. agentorange:
    if you do it in a way that is obviously baiting for shitposts, sure
  7. Gregz:
    I think it's worse if you're being sincere
  8. Ranselknulf:
    the things we do for womyns
  9. Gregz:
    people ignored people like atlentico, obviously trolling for drama
  10. Ranselknulf:
    the seeds of satan
  11. Gregz:
    but if you're sincerely criticizing a codex sacred cow, everyone piles on
  12. Excommunicator:
    thats generally the case yes
  13. Ranselknulf:
    what are people criticizing atlentico for?
  14. Papa Môlé:
    that's why i don't make serious poasts about games anymore
  15. Excommunicator:
    they take it personally
  16. Ranselknulf:
    I can join the unpopular squad and troll back
  17. Excommunicator:
    i think part of it is people being skeptical of the criticisms of others
  18. Excommunicator:
    if people expect others to always be trolling then that sort of justifies the defensiveness
  19. Excommunicator:
    and dismissiveness
  20. Excommunicator:
    but thats the thing
  21. Excommunicator:
    its better to take everythign said on face value
  22. Excommunicator:
    if you think its trolling then don't respond, but otherwise just treat it like its true
  23. Excommunicator:
    then all this meta commentary goes away
  24. Ranselknulf:
    its nearly impossible to have a good argument / debate if ur trolling
  25. Excommunicator:
    if a troll raises a criticism then respond to the criticism rather than the person then it doesnt matter if they're trolling or not
  26. agentorange:
    https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/revisiting-vtm-bloodlines.108242/ for example reading through this thread you can see a lot of discussion about the faults and shortcomings of vtmb
  27. Ranselknulf:
    yah, but a troll gets mad if they are proven wrong
  28. Ranselknulf:
    or NPC, depends on context ofc
  29. agentorange:
    but of course its not a thread titled VTMB IS ACTUALLY A SHIT GAME
  30. Felix:
    its impossible to have a good argument
  31. agentorange:
    i think when you see the sort of piling on of shit ratings and stuff is mostly has to do with the attitude of the poster
  32. Felix:
    arguing is just time wasting
  33. agentorange:
    a good argument is a discussion
  34. Ranselknulf:
    not always felix, depends on what you hope to get out of it
  35. Excommunicator:
    well theres certainly some posters who are so ineloquent or just have a certain personality that when they try to engage a real discussion nobody cares any more
  36. Excommunicator:
    they just end up dispising who is making the argument
  37. Felix:
    what are you getting out of it?
  38. Gregz:
    agentorange: i think when you see the sort of piling on of shit ratings and stuff is mostly has to do with the attitude of the poster <- actually this is interesting, because I don't think that kind of discussion is possible anymore with codex 2.0, specifically because of the button shaming
  39. Ranselknulf:
    felix, sometimes you argue to understand the oppositions thinking
  40. agentorange:
    its definitely gotten worse yeah gregz
  41. Excommunicator:
    asf here is one of those ineloquent posters who people will dismiss as trolling because of his one liners
  42. sullynathan:
    shadow warrior is so boring
  43. Felix:
    ego stroking? agentorange got it right
  44. Ranselknulf:
    you aren't really trying to change their mind
  45. Ranselknulf:
    understanding how they think makes it even easier to troll them back later
  46. Excommunicator:
    are we even getting any useful metrics from the buttons
  47. sullynathan:
    resident evil 2 was pretty good though
  48. agentorange:
    no. i really hate the buttons
  49. Excommunicator:
    is it possible to look at any of it and get a sense of who is good or bad
  50. Ranselknulf:
    gregz just needs a new project to work on between good games
  51. rusty_shackleford:
    people would care less about buttons if button notifications were disabled by default
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,875,967
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
Excommunicator:
if you think its trolling then don't respond, but otherwise just treat it like its true
Excommunicator:
then all this meta commentary goes away

20 minutes ago on shoutbox said:
  1. Clockwork Knight:
    just ignore them and post about whatever you want
  2. Excommunicator:
    youre completely missing the point
  3. Excommunicator:
    you're pointing to a problem and saying "just ignore it"

thinking.png
 

Strange Fellow

Peculiar
Patron
Joined
Jun 21, 2018
Messages
4,013
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Strongly agree, fuck buttans. I'm not concerned with "button shaming", though (honestly, who gives a shit about a few negative ratings?), but rather that people who otherwise would've had to construct some sort of counter-argument can just click a little button instead. I know, I know, "would those arguments even have been worth the bandwith?" Probably not, but who knows. Call me obsessive, but sometimes when people click the "disagree" button I'd like to know what they disagree with.
 

smaug

Secular Koranism with Israeli Characteristics
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
6,438
Location
Texas
Insert Title Here
Strongly agree, fuck buttans. I'm not concerned with "button shaming", though (honestly, who gives a shit about a few negative ratings?), but rather that people who otherwise would've had to construct some sort of counter-argument can just click a little button instead. I know, I know, "would those arguments even have been worth the bandwith?" Probably not, but who knows. Call me obsessive, but sometimes when people click the "disagree" button I'd like to know what they disagree with.
Jeez, fuck off the buttons
 
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,875,967
Location
Glass Fields, Ruins of Old Iran
I'm not concerned with "button shaming", though (honestly, who gives a shit about a few negative ratings?)

Agree, but rated retarded to stay in theme.

Also, you don't have to pick one or the other. If someone's satisfied just with the button, they didn't think it was worth writing a reply, and that's okay. Like when someone asks if pepsi is ok and you grunt in response because you don't feel like elaborating on the illusion of choice in carbonated beverages.
 
Last edited:

Jacob

Pronouns: Nick/Her
Patron
Joined
Dec 24, 2015
Messages
3,336
Location
Hatington
Grab the Codex by the pussy
Strongly agree, fuck buttans. I'm not concerned with "button shaming", though (honestly, who gives a shit about a few negative ratings?), but rather that people who otherwise would've had to construct some sort of counter-argument can just click a little button instead. I know, I know, "would those arguments even have been worth the bandwith?" Probably not, but who knows. Call me obsessive, but sometimes when people click the "disagree" button I'd like to know what they disagree with.
Yes, it's this. It's not the "retadred" rating bandwagon itself that annoys me. But I wouldn't say "button shaming" is totally ignorable. The problem is when I made a new post to ask what did people disagree with, the button spammers would just rate me butthurt and if I'm especially unlucky I would get a cryptic trolling reply. In a no-button Codex the cryptic troll would look like a fool, but here I was basically deprived of discussions.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
people would care less about buttons if button notifications were disabled by default

DarkUnderlord What do you think?
I think you shouldn't get access to buttons until after you've been registered for at least 12 months.

This isn't about the buttons themselves though, but button notifications - the alerts you get when your post gets rated. Chasing you across the site even when you're not looking at that thread anymore. The argument is that if people didn't get those by default, their posts might be better.
 

smaug

Secular Koranism with Israeli Characteristics
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
Feb 20, 2019
Messages
6,438
Location
Texas
Insert Title Here
people would care less about buttons if button notifications were disabled by default

DarkUnderlord What do you think?
I think you shouldn't get access to buttons until after you've been registered for at least 12 months.

This isn't about the buttons themselves though, but button notifications - the alerts you get when your post gets rated. Chasing you across the site even when you're not looking at that thread anymore. The argument is that if people didn't get those by default, their posts might be better.
Can’t you turn off button notifications?
 

Bohr

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2012
Messages
1,878
In a no-button Codex the cryptic troll would look like a fool, but here I was basically deprived of discussions.
Guess you arrived after "no-button Codex"... :M
 

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