Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker - Enhanced Plus Edition - now with turn-based combat

[rusty_shackleford]

A finished game

 

[Rules Lawyer]

Hmm... my desire to play this game dropped significantly when I got to Oleg's Trading Post and found out that all the companions have tons of dialogue to sift through that I assume contain quests and other content. Do I miss out on much if I ignore companions entirely?

Hmm... my desire to play this game dropped significantly when I got to Oleg's Trading Post and found out that all the companions have tons of dialogue to sift through that I assume contain quests and other content. Do I miss out on much if I ignore companions entirely?

I suggest keeping at least Harrim and Nok-nok, because they're humorous and not annoying. Plus, nok-nok is I think more powerful than you could get an equivalent level mercenary you created (he seems to have no BAB penalty with his off hand when dual wielding) - with good gear, his damage output is just absurd. I'm at level 8 or so, and while other melee characters are hitting for 15-20hp, nok-nok is pulling off 50hp sneak attacks left and right. Let everyone attack a tank while nok-nok shreds them all with sneaks that he seems to constantly get and land.

 

[ArchAngel]

Sneak attack is broken in this game...

Anyway, What are your wishlists for PF:KM 2? IMO

• Maintain 1e ruleset
• Implement fly and climb
• Creation of an NWN1 like engine who allow custom modules
• More spells, incendiary cloud, black tentacles, etc
• Make sneak attack more pnp like and less broken
• Meet the decendants of your companions in the future
• Possibility to import your save from the first game and play as an descendant of the stolen lands king
• Large scale combat rules
• More summons. I wanna summon an harem of succubus or an army of demons
• More easily moddable.
• More races, dhampirs, half dragons, etc
• An story that makes sense for an chaotic good or lawful evil main char, like the first game

Even if they don't implement this things, i will buy and play the game, but they are my wishlist items.

We already know that for PKM2 they are taking another of Paizo's modules and turning it into a computer game using same engine and ruleset. So story will not be connected in any way with PKM. At best we might meet some of the NPCs we see in PKM (like Storyteller - this is my guess), this depends on if the story takes place before, during or after PKM since new game will be in another area and characters cannot be at multiple places at once.

My guess is that we will get another iconic character to join our team in this game like we had Amiri in PKM.

 

[Desiderius]

Sneak attack is broken in this game...

Anyway, What are your wishlists for PF:KM 2? IMO

• Maintain 1e ruleset
• Implement fly and climb
• Creation of an NWN1 like engine who allow custom modules
• More spells, incendiary cloud, black tentacles, etc
• Make sneak attack more pnp like and less broken
• Meet the decendants of your companions in the future
• Possibility to import your save from the first game and play as an descendant of the stolen lands king
• Large scale combat rules
• More summons. I wanna summon an harem of succubus or an army of demons
• More easily moddable.
• More races, dhampirs, half dragons, etc
• An story that makes sense for an chaotic good or lawful evil main char, like the first game

Even if they don't implement this things, i will buy and play the game, but they are my wishlist items.

Sneak attack isn’t what’s doing all that damage. 3.5 here and there in dribs and drabs. It’s fine but not game-breaking.

 

[_Vic_]

Sneak attack is broken in this game...

Anyway, What are your wishlists for PF:KM 2? IMO

• Maintain 1e ruleset
• Implement fly and climb
• Creation of an NWN1 like engine who allow custom modules
• More spells, incendiary cloud, black tentacles, etc
• Make sneak attack more pnp like and less broken
• Meet the decendants of your companions in the future
• Possibility to import your save from the first game and play as an descendant of the stolen lands king
• Large scale combat rules
• More summons. I wanna summon an harem of succubus or an army of demons
• More easily moddable.
• More races, dhampirs, half dragons, etc
• An story that makes sense for an chaotic good or lawful evil main char, like the first game

Even if they don't implement this things, i will buy and play the game, but they are my wishlist items.

I´ll be happy if they keep the "kingmaker" part of the game. Also more companions (as in higher number of companions) would be welcome.

 

[Desiderius]

Hmm... my desire to play this game dropped significantly when I got to Oleg's Trading Post and found out that all the companions have tons of dialogue to sift through that I assume contain quests and other content. Do I miss out on much if I ignore companions entirely?

Hmm... my desire to play this game dropped significantly when I got to Oleg's Trading Post and found out that all the companions have tons of dialogue to sift through that I assume contain quests and other content. Do I miss out on much if I ignore companions entirely?

I suggest keeping at least Harrim and Nok-nok, because they're humorous and not annoying. Plus, nok-nok is I think more powerful than you could get an equivalent level mercenary you created (he seems to have no BAB penalty with his off hand when dual wielding) - with good gear, his damage output is just absurd. I'm at level 8 or so, and while other melee characters are hitting for 15-20hp, nok-nok is pulling off 50hp sneak attacks left and right. Let everyone attack a tank while nok-nok shreds them all with sneaks that he seems to constantly get and land.

Nok-now is fine, but your other dudes are underperforming. Anyone can attack with the off-hand with no penalty with the two-weapon fighting feat. Make sure to use a light weapon, like Nok-nok’s kukris. Interesting that his double slice knows to give him DEX to damage on the off-hand. Same with Varn in the DLC.

Improved and greater give extra off-hand attacks. I like to give Nok five levels of fighter for weapon specialization and training so you can wear duelist gloves, so he can get to the magic 11 BAB on time, armor training to use his full dex, and to catch him up on feats.

 

[Lambach]

Yes. Still, an empowered Ice Storm deals 2 x 50+ damage in a huge aoe, no save.

Example what level 18 Octavia can do:

A very build-specific amount of damage exactly three times per day versus literally-any-moron-can-pull-this-off amount of damage infinite times per day. You're not really making much of a case here.

 

[Peacefriend]

Is the game complete now? I've been waiting until all big official patches and expansions are over with.

 

[gurugeorge]

Is the game complete now? I've been waiting until all big official patches and expansions are over with.

Smooth as a baby's bottom mate, I'm nearly done on one of my playthroughs (got 3 on the go) and haven't encountered anything game-breaking. Definitely go for it. (And give the Turn-Based mod a try, you can switch between TB and RTWP on the fly.)

**********

On the question of wishlists for P:K2, something on my personal wishlist is MORE ICONS. There are a gazillion abilities in P:K and the developers have created a shitload of icons for them, but they still don't cover it all and many of them are re-used.

Everything. Must. Have. A. Unique. Icon.

 

[Cryomancer]

Is the game complete now? I've been waiting until all big official patches and expansions are over with.

Recently finished the game and din't found any game breaking bug. On my first run last year, i found many.... TBH only the house of edge of time was game breaking, but game breaking due awful dungeon design, not due bugs. And you will have an long time until this dungeon.

 

[Haplo]

Yes. Still, an empowered Ice Storm deals 2 x 50+ damage in a huge aoe, no save.

A very build-specific amount of damage exactly three times per day versus literally-any-moron-can-pull-this-off amount of damage infinite times per day. You're not really making much of a case here.

Very build specific? If you call Arcane Trickster a very special build, I suppose?

3 times per day? I guess. But if you just maximize that spell (which you can probably do at least 8 times), it's still 250+ damage at level 20. Party friendly and stunning enemies.

How much more you need in a party between rests?

 

[deuxhero]

Finished the Forgotten Heroes dungeon last night. An interesting puzzle, but it ruins it by forcing you to split the party when there's an NPC right there who, despite being grateful for you saving his life, can't be asked to press a button for an hour. That NPC in general is a poor design since Cure Blindness (at least from a scroll) did not work on him.

My guess is that we will get another iconic character to join our team in this game like we had Amiri in PKM.

Most of the iconics aren't that interesting as NPCs. Amiri was only in Kingmaker from personal favoritism of suits.

I think any sequel really needs to greatly expand the bestiary. As for classes, Oracle, Witch, Arcanist, Bloodrager, Hunter, Skald and Warpriest are all easily implemented as they have very few abilities that do something unusual and many abilities outright reused from existing classes (mods have already added all but two and there's a WIP for Arcanist). Seven new classes would improve variety. Each existing class has at least one good archetype they could add (alongside picking multiple archetypes when applicable) aside from Wizard (who could have elemental schools added instead) and maybe Kineticist who could have Aether added as an element (Widely considered far and away the best element in PnP, though the constraints of a video game would bring it down to merely good. Throwing around enemies is fun and there's forced movement effects in the game, like bullrush and pit spells, so clearly forcibly moving enemies won't break the engine.)

Engine wise, I'd like to see familiars better implemented, be able to equip them and animal companions with items, proper implementation of bucklers, ability to wear 0 ACP armor without proficiency and separation of the handband slot from the helmet slot (per PnP) so all the helmets in the game aren't useless. Implement traits and fully include FCB (alternate picks for human spontaneous casters and warpriests are important). That and include turn based combat officially.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Owlcat should just make an OGL game with no ties to pathfinder so they don't have to worry about paizo meddling.
It's not like the pathfinder lore is particularly interesting… or even good.

 

[deuxhero]

Why is full camera control not in the game? Every area I've seen works fine with it modded in.

rusty_shackleford
Rules wise yes. The main thing the license gives is the adventure path the module is based on. Some parts are a lot truer to it than others though, though so far it seems to rarely get to the level of straight out copying the books like Temple of Elemental Evil did.

 

[Cryomancer]

Owlcat should just make an OGL game with no ties to pathfinder so they don't have to worry about paizo meddling.
It's not like the pathfinder lore is particularly interesting… or even good.

I strongly disagree. The lore of PF:KM was amazing. Finally an game who treated feyfolk with the well deserved deserved respect.

 

[btbgfel]

You can quote the rulebook but most of those are probably either not implemented or don't do what the rules say.

I'm quoting the various game wikis. I'm happy to see evidence that the feat does indeed only give those two effects, but at the moment there's no evidence that that's the case.

That statement was to both of you. Unless you're willing to trawl through the game resources & decompiled source to confirm it works as stated, I'd just assume it doesn't.

Yeah but he isn't quoting any rulebook. I have no idea what the source for that information is.

You can reroll with blindfight, I missed that. Sorry Thanks for pointing it out, I will reroll now
The source is 2.0.1 blueprints on github (bag of trick has a link to it), but it can change from 2.0.2 to 2.0.6

 

[deuxhero]

Kineticist's burn in PnP has some clauses making it not really work with no con (Read: Undead and most constructs) creatures. Do these apply to Jaethal or can she accept burn normally?

 

[Cryomancer]

Kineticist's burn in PnP has some clauses making it not really work with no con (Read: Undead and most constructs) creatures. Do these apply to Jaethal or can she accept burn normally?

Good question. And those with resistance/immunity to non lethal damage? Eg : Sorcerer of undead bloodline? i know that on pfkm undead bloodline DR is different than on pnp

 

[PrettyDeadman]

PK2 should be about pirtates!
Instead of kingdom you maintain pirate island.
You can be evil pirate or good pirate.
It has black elves who live underground and worship bug goddess and humanoid squids with brain power.

 

[Cael]

Owlcat should just make an OGL game with no ties to pathfinder so they don't have to worry about paizo meddling.
It's not like the pathfinder lore is particularly interesting… or even good.

I strongly disagree. The lore of PF:KM was amazing. Finally an game who treated feyfolk with the well deserved deserved respect.

I thought the only use for the fey is "condom"?

 

[Cryomancer]

I thought the only use for the fey is "condom"?

jabberwock is technically an feyworld creature... hu3hu3hu3hu3

 

[Cael]

I thought the only use for the fey is "condom"?

jabberwock is technically an feyworld creature... hu3hu3hu3hu3

An aberration is an aberration, regardless of whether it is a ball of eyes in the Prime or a starship piloting squidhead or making living as a Jar Jar standin in the feyworld.

 

[Haplo]

It does not cost burn if you do multiround casting by using Gather Power which is easily done as combat opener (also a reason why Kineticist is OP because Gather Power should be a loud effect that should activate enemies in range to come and attack your party).
OK damage was maybe not 500 but it was enough to one shot normal Wild Hunt and 2 shot Rulers. With no saves or resists. Even SR does not help as it is physical damage so I killed Golems and others as well with it.

Also for general party friendliness, I tend to prefer Kinetic Knights. Party friendly 0 Burn Blade Whirlwind after movement FTW!

 

[deuxhero]

One more thing a sequel needs to fix: Everything having such a short range. Entangle is unusable because of this: It's AoE is greater than its range.

Anyways, the Fey tentacles debate thing was hilarious. Is there a list of answers? I asked about the gnomes, the blight and why they held it. What answers do others give?

 

[Cryomancer]

One more thing a sequel needs to fix: Everything having such a short range. Entangle is unusable because of this: It's AoE is greater than its range.

Yep. Horrid Wilting is almost useless due the nerf toy range...