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Mask of the Betrayer questions

Jazz_

Arcane
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,070
Location
Sea of Ubiquity
So I picked this up and I have never played a Neverwinter Nights game before so I'm a bit lost. I read that it's a great storyfag rpg with shitty combat, I only bought it for the storyfaggotry, so what class/build would you suggest I choose to avoid combat where possible and/or breeze thru it? Also I don't understand the build system, you can be multiple classes at once and become a hybrid of sort? I started a game just to see how controls work and whatnot, and I chose monk class but then I was able to level up as a druid or wizard etc, uh?
 

Fenris 2.0

Augur
Joined
Jan 1, 2013
Messages
183
Location
Franconia
Forget to avoid Combat - D&D is about Combat. The most powerful Characters by far are pure Casters (Wizards, Clerics and Druids), but they are a bit complicated to play. You might want to play something like a Bard/Barbarian/Dragon Disciple/Frenzied Berserker or something :)
This Side might help you:
http://nwn2db.com/
 

Neanderthal

Arcane
Joined
Jul 7, 2015
Messages
3,626
Location
Granbretan
To be honest just about owt is viable in 3rd edition D&D, rolling wi that Monk is not a bad choice, you can even stay as that one class and become a right arsekicker. More classes you have more XP you need to level up, but more useful you are, however crafting, buffing and equipment can make up for most o weak points in a build.

Fenris is right on money though if you're bothered about optimisation.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

Administrator
Staff Member
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Messages
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Deutschland
Nope. Never played D&D tabletop or any other rpg based strictly on D&D rules like Baldur's Gate or TOEE. Anyway I will try to go with some of the most popular builds on that site that Fenris linked. (thanks)

VoD's Guide to NWN2 (MotB in particular) combat for noobs:
=============

Casters might be powerful but they require knowledge of the spells to play well. If you're new to DnD combat you should perhaps just stick to a warrior character. Playing a warrior character only requires knowledge of the basics. MotB is a game where having access to more skills and more skillpoints per level might come in handy, so something simple like Rogue 2/Barbarian X probably plays quite well. The rogue class will unlock lots of useful class skills (use magic device, tumble, the social skills like persuade and bluff and so on) and you can take the able learner feat to keep increasing these skills as cross-class skills for the normal cost. Barbarians get more skill points than most other warrior type classes so if you start as a human with 12 INT you will have enough skillpoints to succeed at the dialogue checks in MotB. Get the amulett of the master and/or Finch's Finest Hat in Mulsantir for a significant dialogue skill boost.

Without further ado, the basics, which apply to pretty much any character. In DnD combat you have to worry about defense and offense. Your defense consists of several different stats, namely, armor class (AC), saving throws and spell resistance (SR).

Spell resistance
Having spell resistance is great, because more often than not your character will just resist a hostile spell or spell-like effect and take no damage whatsoever. The best way to gain this is by playing a race that has innate SR like the drow, yuanti or deep gnome. Those races have 10 or 11 + character level SR which for the purposes of MotB means hardly any enemy spell caster will harm you with spells that allow for SR unless they have spell penetration feats or significantly outlevel you or seriously luck out on their roll trying to beat your SR.
The monk class gets SR eventually at lvl 13 (SR=10+monk level). Another way to gain SR is using the divine spell called Spell Resistance, which divine casters like clerics, druids, spirit shamans etc. can cast. That one has a fairly long duration. Finally, there are plenty of items that grant varying amounts of SR but most have too low an amount on them to be really useful.

Saving Throws
You can see on your character sheet that you have will, reflex and fortitude saving throws. Those values are used to help you defend against all kinds of hostile effects, sometimes avoiding them completely, sometimes taking reduced damage or effect. Your saves continue to improve naturally while leveling up. It is in your best interest to have saving throws as high as possible. There are plenty of ways to increase one's saves, mostly with equipment and buffing spells, increasing stats like Wisdom (will), Constitution (fortitude) and Dexterity (reflex) is another way to improve your respective STs.
I'll list some the most important and common items and spells to be used for this purpose:
- Cloak of Resistance and/or Cloak of Fortification
- Ring of Resistance
- Protection from Evil (arcane and divine spell)
- Greater Resistance/Superior Resistance (arcane and divine spells)
- Prayer (divine)
- Heroism, Greater Heroism (arcane spells)

Armor Class
Probably the most important and most easily neglected by nabs. Your Armor class (AC) is your defense against all kinds of weapon attacks, if your opponent cannot beat your AC value with his to-hit roll you'll avoid being hit entirely. Hardly getting hit at all greatly reduces the damage you'll take - I know, that sounds crazy - so you'll be well adviced to make that AC number as big as possible.
Your armor class is represented by a single value but actually consist of different, cumulated types of AC. I'll list the different types of AC and how to get them with items and/or spells:

- DEX AC, AC gained by Dexterity, for every 2 points of Dexterity above 10 you will gain 1 AC, so for instance when you have 14 Dex you have a Dex modifier of 2, hence you get +2 AC. Note that armors usually limit the amount of Dex AC they allow to benefit from, e.g. a full plate armor allows for only 1 Dex AC, whereas an mithral chainshirt allows for 6 Dex AC. Naturally items or spells that increase Dex will increase your AC as well unless you're wearing an amor that forbids more Dex bonus AC.

- just the straight armor value of a given armor, full plate gives 8, a breast plate gives 5, leather armor gives 2 and so on

- armor enhancement bonus, this is the "magical" armor enhancement indicated by the plus part in armor descriptions, e.g. leather armor +5 (<- here it is). This bonus to AC can be acquired from different sources but does not stack, i.e. only the biggest one applies. The sources are: 1) the enchantment on the armor itself as in the case of that leather armor +5 which already comes with +5 armor enhancement bonus, 2) bracers of armor and 3) the spells mage armor/greater mage armor (arcane) and magic vestment (divine)

- Deflection AC, again this can come from different sources but does not stack (only the biggest value applies) , typically you would get this from rings of protection, cloaks of protection, cloaks of fortification but in MotB in particular a lot of other items might have deflection AC on them like Efrem's stag helmet for instance which you might have gotten from Kaelyn's brother in Mulsantir. There's a cleric spell Shield of Faith which also gives deflection AC up to +5.

- Shield AC, this type of AC can be produced by the spells Shield (arcane) and magic vestment (divine, when cast on a shield) and of course by wearing a shield, e.g. a heavy shield +2 gives 4 shield AC (2 from the heavy shield, +2 from the enchantment)

- Natural AC, the natural AC bonus some creatures get stacks with the AC gained from items/spells but the AC gained from items/spells don't stack with each other, e.g. bark skin won't stack with an amulett of natural armor. Ways to get this type of AC: from amuletts (like the mentioned amulett of natural armor) and spells like bark skin (druid), tortoise shell(druid), spider skin (arcane), shadow shield (arcane)

- and last but not least dodge AC. Unlike most other forms of AC dodge AC stacks. there are some feats that increase this type of AC like the aptly named Dodge feat or the Luck of Heroes feat. You'll also gain +1 dodge AC for each 10 ranks in the Tumble skill. Typically items you will want that grant this type of AC are boots of hardiness, boots of the sun soul, gargoyle boots. Bards have songs/inspirations that grant a boost to dodge AC. The wizard spell haste gives +1 dodge AC (Safiya can cast persistent haste as a lvl9 spell, holds all day).

Now, for the sake of completion, some classes get additional bonus AC, e.g. monks can add their wisdom modifier on AC as long as they're not wearing armor, swashbucklers and certain prestige classes can likewise add their INT modifier on AC.
Additionally their are certain feats like Divine Shield which can temporarily increase your AC further.

Applying this valuable knowledge, here's an example how a typical ~lvl 20 character starting into MotB might be equipped:
10 - base AC (everybody starts with that)
15 - AC from a mithral breastplate +5 while having 20 Dex (mithral breastplate allows for 5 dex bonus, the breastplate itself has an armor of 5 and is enchanted with +5)
7 - heavy shield +5
5 - amulett of natural armor +5 or being buffed with the bark skin spell from Gann
5 - wearing a Cloak of Fortification +5
7 - boots of hardiness +3 + 20 tumble ranks + haste + Luck of Heroes
=== Final AC: 49

It's easy to improve upon that for there are better armors in MotB or you could enchant that armor further, there are better shields to be found, even just having Gann buff you with tortoise shell would be an immedtiate +4 gain in natural AC (use Freedom of Movement first to avoid the slowing effect of tortoise shell). However, an AC around 50 sounds like a good start.
Again, just for the sake of completion there are addditional ways to avoid getting hit, namely concealment (by spells like concealment, improved invisibility) and mirror image (illusion spell). You can also gain permanent true seeing and 50% concealment by maxing out your spirit hunger.

Stay tuned for the next episode of VoD explains DnD for nubs in which we'll talk about offense or "Do you even BAB, bro?"

*BAB= base attack bonus
 

Jazz_

Arcane
Joined
Jun 13, 2016
Messages
1,070
Location
Sea of Ubiquity
Thanks man, I was actually asking myself ''what he hell are those saving throws'' when levelling my character.
The camera is still :flamesaw::dead:tho.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,308
Ok fam, how do i not suck at this game? Part of my question means to ask how much should i trust on the AI to do its thing in combat (aka should i micromanage everything or should i trust the AI). The other part of my question is about resting. Considering the spirit hunger mechanic, how do i go about balancing resting and hunger?
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,308
Well a little late to change the build (i'm going pure monk, and i'm gonna have +5 to st soon). I'll check out crafting though. Incidentally, what sort of bonuses are we talking about? Also, does the spirit hunger thing confer any benefits or is it just penalties?
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,716
Location
California
My own take on the game is that camera, combat, crafting, looting/itemization, and economy are all laughably bad, whereas the reactivity, writing, lore, and area design (minus stupid combat/camera) are sublime. With that in mind, my recommendation is to use the console command to expand your party size so that you can take all of the characters (rather than leaving behind one), do a nerfed build like Dragonmaster Negotiator, and consider even just giving yourself a bunch of money via a hack and skipping inventory wrangling altogether. I realize that's heretical but the bad parts of the game are really bad, the good parts are spectacular, and it's a shame if the former block you from enjoying the latter.
 

The_Mask

Just like Yves, I chase tales.
Patron
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
5,899
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The land of ice and snow.
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I helped put crap in Monomyth
Incidentally, what sort of bonuses are we talking about? Also, does the spirit hunger thing confer any benefits or is it just penalties?

I strongly recommend you stop asking questions, stop visiting these forums and actually stop going on the Internet until you beat the game.

Spoiling yourself of anything MotB related will only cause you regrets.
 

Jaedar

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 5, 2009
Messages
9,869
Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
My own take on the game is that camera, combat, crafting, looting/itemization, and economy are all laughably bad, whereas the reactivity, writing, lore, and area design (minus stupid combat/camera) are sublime. With that in mind, my recommendation is to use the console command to expand your party size so that you can take all of the characters (rather than leaving behind one), do a nerfed build like Dragonmaster Negotiator, and consider even just giving yourself a bunch of money via a hack and skipping inventory wrangling altogether. I realize that's heretical but the bad parts of the game are really bad, the good parts are spectacular, and it's a shame if the former block you from enjoying the latter.
Using console to hack yourself +1 party slots is a really good idea.

Jazz_
For build, any caster is going to be pretty overpowered (just go Sorceror(30) for maximum ease), but I'm sure browsing the build repo you can find more "play themselves" type builds. Having some talking skills (diplo mainly, but also bluff, intimidate) is nice too. Other than that, go in blind.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,308
My own take on the game is that camera, combat, crafting, looting/itemization, and economy are all laughably bad, whereas the reactivity, writing, lore, and area design (minus stupid combat/camera) are sublime. With that in mind, my recommendation is to use the console command to expand your party size so that you can take all of the characters (rather than leaving behind one), do a nerfed build like Dragonmaster Negotiator, and consider even just giving yourself a bunch of money via a hack and skipping inventory wrangling altogether. I realize that's heretical but the bad parts of the game are really bad, the good parts are spectacular, and it's a shame if the former block you from enjoying the latter.

Well i'm only interested in MotB. I do have a ridiculous amount of money already, which i thought was a function of playing at epic levels. But i like this advice. I'll keep it in mind.

I strongly recommend you stop asking questions, stop visiting these forums and actually stop going on the Internet until you beat the game.

Spoiling yourself of anything MotB related will only cause you regrets.

You know what, you have a good point there. I will take your advice.
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
Developer
Joined
Aug 15, 2012
Messages
5,716
Location
California
Well i'm only interested in MotB. I do have a ridiculous amount of money already, which i thought was a function of playing at epic levels. But i like this advice. I'll keep it in mind.
Yes, this was all MOTB specific advice.

I never lacked for gold, but to get it, I spent a non-trivial amount of time highlighting all containers, dumpster diving, playing inventory Tetris, and then dumping items on shopkeepers who inexplicably have seven bajillion gold coins lying around. I found that gameplay loop terrible.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,308
Okay i need to ask a bit of decline question here. is there a way to cheat my way around locked stuff? I don't want to play or bring a rogue along because i'm interested in other companions and i'll probably won't be playing this game more than once. So yea, any unlock cheats/mods?
 

Sabotin

Scholar
Joined
Jun 16, 2016
Messages
191
You can bash things open. Or maybe use the console to increase your Open Lock skill and/or DEX. I'd avoid forcibly opening stuff with a mod/cheat as that can break triggers/scripts/etc. or trigger them at a wrong time.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,308
You can bash things open. Or maybe use the console to increase your Open Lock skill and/or DEX. I'd avoid forcibly opening stuff with a mod/cheat as that can break triggers/scripts/etc. or trigger them at a wrong time.
hmm ok. I'll see about bashing stuff like a maniac.
 

VentilatorOfDoom

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2009
Messages
8,600
Location
Deutschland
You can enable your own char to deal with locks I guess, even without rogue levels.
Console
DebugMode 1
givefeat 1857 (trapfinding, only rogues get this)
givefeat 182 (skill focus open lock)
givefeat 598 (epic SF)
givefeat 225 (skill mastery)

feats 1387-92 trap sense 1-6
591 epic SF disable trap
174 SF disable device

Put points into open lock and disable device. If you don't have any, set your INT to a high value, say SetINT 50, so next level up you will get a bunch of skillpoints to put into those skills. Afterwards you can set your INT to the original value if you want.
DebugMode 0 at the end
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,308
You can enable your own char to deal with locks I guess, even without rogue levels.
Console
DebugMode 1
givefeat 1857 (trapfinding, only rogues get this)
givefeat 182 (skill focus open lock)
givefeat 598 (epic SF)
givefeat 225 (skill mastery)

feats 1387-92 trap sense 1-6
591 epic SF disable trap
174 SF disable device

Put points into open lock and disable device. If you don't have any, set your INT to a high value, say SetINT 50, so next level up you will get a bunch of skillpoints to put into those skills. Afterwards you can set your INT to the original value if you want.
DebugMode 0 at the end

Exactly what i needed. I don't care much for traps and all.
 

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