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Kerbal Space Program TWO, DOS, DEUX, ZWEI....

Riel

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Oh shit!! Take my money and shut up!!!

well not so much, but definitely interested.
 

Wyatt_Derp

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Ambitious and touching. But like most hype-teasers it gives a myopic view of the final product. Loved the collapsing ships/launch pads, though. Very Kerbal.
 

Hellraiser

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I expected they would go for near future/hard SF as a third DLC but then again after all these years a sequel is overdue. The game had so many features tacked on over the years it really needed to be written from scratch at some point. Also when Take 2 bought the rights I expected they saw the potential of the brand, so a sequel was a natural business choice.

Curiously they announced that the next patch for the first one will add new planet art.

Here's hoping that the colonization feature means celestial bodies will have more varied and potentially dangerous surfaces. Also weather.

Not made by SQUAD, it's gonna be shit

The lead dev and core that made KSP left ages ago anyway. Now sure they still have RoverDude and some other good former modders but it was HarvesteR, Mu, C9 and NovaSilisko that are responsible for the core features. Also more likely than not Take 2 was probably pissed off at dealing with Squad's greedy owners who screwed the original devs that left. Ideally they could also poach some former devs or modders. In the end they can't fuck much with the design unless they gimp the editors or dumb down the physics based mechanics.

If there is any reason to believe it might be shit it is this part of the FAQ:

Q: What engine will KSP2 run on?

A: Kerbal Space Program 2 is developed using Unity.

:prosper:

If the goal for the sequel was to be built from the ground up, they really should have used the opportunity and went with UE4. This game is too ambitious and ideally would need its own damn engine, but that is of course costs time and money take 2 might not be willing to spend.

Still, if they make better use of physics acceleration from the start...
 

gerey

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I imagine the reason they stuck with Unity is to ensure ease of modding for the "baked-in" community and recycle whatever code and assets they want to reuse.
 

Data4

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Over there.
If there is any reason to believe it might be shit it is this part of the FAQ:

Q: What engine will KSP2 run on?

A: Kerbal Space Program 2 is developed using Unity.

:prosper:

If the goal for the sequel was to be built from the ground up, they really should have used the opportunity and went with UE4. This game is too ambitious and ideally would need its own damn engine, but that is of course costs time and money take 2 might not be willing to spend.

Still, if they make better use of physics acceleration from the start...

I don't think it's so much that Unity is a bad engine. I think there's just bad uses of it. Cities: Skylines is Unity and works just fine from an engine standpoint, for example.
 

Hellraiser

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Interview:

https://www.pcgamer.com/uk/kerbal-space-program-2-interview/

Here's the tl;dr version:

Early on they discussed what to do and not to do with KSP. The not to do is warp or other soft science fiction tech, instead we get interstellar travel straight out of Atomic Rockets which is named in the interview: http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/

People already spotted project orion-likes and inertial fusion spacecraft in the images shown so far.

They want to implement a better terrain system to offer a more unique landscape aiding exploration. So far what I can see is that the scatter seems better, these mun rocks here do not seem to form any easily recognizable pattern.

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/ste...87a84f30efb67ee3a1cefa1fe28fcf0.1920x1080.jpg

Colonies will need to be expanded and eventually they will be able to support building spacecraft off-world, especially needed to build interstellar ships. They are not supposed to require babysitting or micromanaging and will grow on their own in some aspects. As portrayed in the cgi trailer the colony structures will have to be built with physics in mind or they might kerbal themselves.

Multiple star systems, new worlds and terrain features developed with attention to real astrophysics as they have an astrophysicist as a science consultantant.

Super-earth planet, ringed gas giant and a too close for comfort binary system of planets being torn apart by mutual tidal forces are confirmed so far as new celestial bodies.

Apparently different parts are supposed to explode differently, wonder if this includes actual physical force. The nuke charges on this project orion-like craft would probably set off something incredibly spectacular, kerbal and laggy:

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/ste...3b7c22507fd1614e2781e59a01c1b5e.1920x1080.jpg

Multiplayer will be in.

Marketing propaganda with the new devs and some astronomer James Webb Space Telescope related guy that is their science consultant, there's some in-game shit in the background at some points:



I imagine the reason they stuck with Unity is to ensure ease of modding for the "baked-in" community and recycle whatever code and assets they want to reuse.

It was either a budget based decision or a know-how based decision (the devs they had knew Unity better), the assets look remade from scratch.

Steam page has some more details and screenshots.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/954850/Kerbal_Space_Program_2/

So far the main fear on the KSP forums seems to be that they will pull an Obsidian/Gollop and go the Epic Store Exclusive way, the publisher has a reputation for it...
 

gerey

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It's somewhat of a bummer that the colony aspect is going to be so hands-off. I'd much rather have the option to let the AI develop the colony or to micromanage it on my own. KSP should be about the whole space exploration experience, and a large part of that is not just getting to a celestial body, but landing and exploring the surface as well. Also, I wish they had said something about atmospheric craft, which was another half-baked feature in the first game that didn't get much attention.

Also, the management side of the game needs some serious love and added depth.

Oh well, here's hoping the game will allow even more ambitious modding than the predecessor so that modders can inject more complexity into core mechanics and ensure you have something to do with on a planet's surface.
 

Hellraiser

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Well I understood that you will still need to provide them with some shit and they will not fall apart if you just ignore them, but you will need to send habitats or equipment to give them the potential to grow.

One question that comes to mind is what happens with the current career mode mechanics, missions and contracts specifically. Do they ignore them entirely and build the game around colonization in a more sandboxy direction?

FYI there are some Squad devs supporting KSP2, in particular in regards to staying true to the original, but none wanted to confirm it on their forums due to NDAs.
 

Hellraiser

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IGN video has shitloads of gameplay video in decent quality, it starts at 3:33 into the video as they talk with the dev with a Kerbin launch and it seems to be the sequence from which the screenshots on steam were made including the orion ship and the inertial confinement fusion rocket at the Jool orbital base.

https://www.ign.com/videos/2019/08/...se-poor-kerbals-back-into-orbit-gamescom-2019

Metallic hydrogen rockets are mentioned as limit of how far they want to go with speculative, repeating again that they say no to any warp drives or warp gates.

There is more confirmation that terrain features and topography is supposed to be major improvement compared to KSP 1 as it is supposed to be a factor for colony structure placement.

Videos of Orion-like Nuclear Pulse Pusher rockets in action, dev mentions that launching it in nuke pulse mode off a colony's pad is not a good idea. Video shows it launching on boosters first before turning on nuke mode.

Mun or Vall looks ridiculously good from low orbit.

Centrifugal rings rotate as expected.

Nice video of rocket exploding on the pad.

Cryogenic vapor or whatever appears when rockets sit on pad ready to launch. Also there seem to be water curtains on the pad for the vibration reduction/protection.
 

Hellraiser

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The big mysteries of the universe have been revealed:

https://www.pcgamer.com/kerbal-space-program-2-dev-reveals-how-baby-kerbals-are-made/

Kerbalkind's fascination with MOAR BOOSTERS makes perfect sense now and this also explains why Jeb has his shit eating grin all the time while flying rockets.

Also we now know more about how colonies are supposed to work. Apparently their growth is tied to pushing the envelope of space exploration which ties further into progression. At the same time in order to expand the infrastructure you need to ship resources to the colony. This seems to be a reasonable approach to the time warp problem. As long as they randomize and vary the resource distribution enough that you are not locked to the same linear exploration path this can end up good.

BTW someone noticed that Take 2 wants the game out in their current fiscal year which ends in March. So Spring 2020 actually means March unless the suits decide it is better to release later (and unicorns somehow exist).
 

Hellraiser

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New interview with the creative lead or whatever, lots of good new info:

https://www.videogameschronicle.com...-depth-conversation-with-the-creator-of-ksp2/

Optimization of part physics a major focus, LOD like system mentioned along with some other ideas they are working on. General comment that the sometimes stuttering gameplay footage they have shown is not a good indicator of how fast the game will be running. Supposedly the end result is supposed to be vastly faster than KSP1.

Constant thrust with time warp is confirmed eliminating the waiting game with low thrust engines, in general the goal is to maximize actual gameplay time as opposed to waiting so they also added higher time warp levels. Mentioned as an obvious improvement over the first game as otherwise reaching interstellar cruise speeds would be a pain in the ass in KSP2.

Axial tilt is in the game, for the Kerbolar system bodies we know from the first game they only use it very conservatively so that the Kerbolar system is not changes too drastically.

Further mentions that procedural terrain generation of planet surfaces is supposed to be vastly improved, the end result is supposed to be that nothing should feel repetitive in the aspects of shape, tiling textures, scatter etc.

General mentions that they want to improve the atmospheres but without any details yet (hopefully clouds and weather).

Planet shine will be in, including from multiple moons etc. making night not so dark on some bodies.

Most KSP1 parts are in the sequel, they will not be changed performance-wise so that KSP1 players do not have too much of a shock. Only some parts got axed due to redundancy. For example multi-nozzle engines like the Mammoth will not be remade as the new system allows easy engine clustering by attaching multiple engines directly to the fuel tank (technically you could also do it in KSP1 but IIRC you needed fuel lines and possibly octo-struts and I think in KSP2 direct attachement will be possible).

The materials released so far feature 4 types of futuristic engines of which the community only properly identified two so far, the orion-like and the inertial confinement fusion project daaedalus-like. Supposedly there are some torch drives in the game. My guess is the ship flying to the binary planets Rask and Rusk in the CGI trailer is using one of the other engines, read about some guys wanting to build a positron engine so maybe that. I also wonder if there is a nuclear salt water rocket engine somewhere or a gas core engine.

:hypeship:


My personal hype rocket for this game seems to be approaching relativistic speeds well.
 

CyberModuled

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It's depressing to think the current state of PC markets basically mandates that the first question is the first. Regardless though, hopefully Private Division doesn't pull some dumb bull shit with exclusivity and small DLC purchases that mods can do with ease.

 

Burning Bridges

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Jesus Christ people are retarded.

if I remember how this all started in 2011, a fun little Unity project with rocket tanks and physics, and shit performance. how we laughed and played the shit out of it. now this is a bloated AAA- franchise and the Kerbal crowd takes itself serious. I just hope someone makes a decent space sim and I no longer have to look at this retarded shit.

The lead dev and core that made KSP left ages ago anyway. Now sure they still have RoverDude and some other good former modders but it was HarvesteR, Mu, C9 and NovaSilisko that are responsible for the core features. Also more likely than not Take 2 was probably pissed off at dealing with Squad's greedy owners who screwed the original devs that left. Ideally they could also poach some former devs or modders. In the end they can't fuck much with the design unless they gimp the editors or dumb down the physics based mechanics.

Squad cannot make a sequel because they would find no developers. Eventually people literally worked for free because they liked the game and then all ran off. With this track record, it must be the shittiest company to work for in the whole world.
 

Hellraiser

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Some guy was at PAX West and posted some new info on twatter, pasting the interesting bits here so you do not need to go inside the twatter.

The entire simulation core has been rewritten. Multithreading has been addressed but I won't get into it because people define it differently. Way fewer bottlenecks, much more optimized is the idea.

Kerbin's overall geography is the same. Other planets have had facelifts to give additional geographic history. The kerbin system has the same bodies. The game engine now allows for axial tilts.

Overall design philosophy behind terrain: "No two landing sites should feel the same."

You can now create rockets in individual sections and piece them together. Yay QOL! There is also blueprint style build mode that makes placing and aligning parts easier. The VAB is overall much much larger.

Colonies: You can build anywhere you can land. You don't need flat ground. Colonies are built, not grown, and will need resources supplied in order to build Colony buildings and any rockets/vehicles you build at them.

Much higher part counts are going to be available but they can't give numbers at this stage of development.

Planet rings have big rocks. Felt a bit like Elite, was pretty cool.
 

Hellraiser

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Q&A asked by some KSP forum guy at PAX, bolded the interesting bits.

FYI supposedly there will be no weather and clouds which is the first piece of decline news so far (alien lightning storms and wind would be great to have, also alien rain for that ambience). But it seems we will get terrain hazards with lava mentioned specifically.

  • Q: Will single-player still have all the same familiar game modes, i.e. sandbox, science, career?
  • A: No. There will be sandbox (pretty much same as now), and then there will be another mode called "progression" which is sort of a combination of science and career modes, aiming for the best of both.
  • Q: Will science and R&D still work pretty much the same way?
  • A: Yes.
  • Q: What's the tech tree like? Is it still "kerbals first, probe cores later"?
  • A: Still TBD.
  • Q: Will there still be the same sorts of science experiments? New ones?
  • A: It's changed in a few ways, but not at liberty to say more than that at the moment.
  • Q: Still biome-focused? Are they still called "biomes"?
  • A: Not sure.
  • Q: Will any KSP 1 features be dropped, and if so, which? For example: ISRU, CommNet, asteroids, heating, etc.
  • A: That's a bit complicated to answer if you ask "any", since there are tons of features in KSP 1 and not all of them are going to work exactly the same way in KSP 2. But for the ones specifically mentioned here: yes, ISRU will still be a thing, with a way to detect from orbit. There are still asteroids. There's still CommNet, and it still needs LOS. Heating's a thing, though the dynamics may change a bit and can't talk about those details right now.
  • Q: How customizable will the UI be? (navball position, etc.)
  • A: They want to make it very flexible. They're trying to make the UI more easily moddable than before. As for player-customizability, details are still TBD. They're aware that players can be very particular about how UI elements are arranged, and want to make people happy.
  • Q: When will Star Theory people start engaging with players in the KSP forums (e.g. to answer questions, get feedback, etc.)?
  • A: Don't know an exact date, but Soon™.
  • Q: What's the plan for Mac and Linux support?
  • A: We want KSP to be available to as many players as possible at launch, but can't say more specifically than that right now.
  • Q: Will KSP work on a locked-down PC? As in, can be installed by an admin user, then run by non-admin users?
  • A: Don't know, would need an engineer for that.
  • Q: Will we be getting KSP 2 merchandise? When?
  • A: There will definitely be merch, don't know when though.
  • Q: Will we have the ability to refuel or transfer resources to craft on a planet/moon surface without the need to dock to them?
  • A: <knowing nod, he gets why this is important> Absolutely yes. No comment on the details, though.
  • Q: Will we see parts inspired from existing real-world spacecraft that have yet to be featured in KSP 1? Such as the Orion capsule, etc.
  • A: No plans for Making-History-style replicas, but definitely "inspired by" types of craft.
  • Q: Will the Making History parts be included?
  • A: Currently no plans to bring those in, in particular. There are some parts that appear to have become so indispensable that they may bring them in, though.
  • Q: What about part sizes? Will new sizes be available?
  • A: Two new sizes. No comment on how big.
  • Q: Will any new parts be based on cancelled concepts like NASA's Constellation program or un-built proposals like Lockheed Martin's Mars Base Camp?
  • A: There are echoes of Constellation. We use this stuff as our reference materials, so there's a lot of "inspired by" stuff.
  • Q: Will there be periodic equipment failures / maintenance?
  • A: No. <grinning> I expect modders will jump right on that, though.
  • Q: Will there be specific hazards to exploration (e.g. sand traps for rovers)?
  • A: Definitely yes (to hazards that is, not necessarily to sand traps). No comment on details. By the way, there are lava planets, wink wink nudge nudge.
  • Q: Will there be camera tools to make it easier for people to put together their own cinematics? (flyby, etc.)
  • A: Putting in lots of work on the camera system, but can't be more detailed than that right now.
  • Q: Will we have any form of automation? For example, if I were to launch my Daedalus and then swap over to some other craft, would the Daedalus continue accelerating?
  • A: <big grin> Absolutely yes. That's a really important feature and is a big deal to have. Continuing to accelerate while switching control elsewhere is a thing.
  • Q: Will it be possible to fly multiple ships in atmosphere at the same time? For example, to emulate a SpaceX booster recovery?
  • A: Would really like to enable that and are trying to do that. Still working on it.
  • Q: Underwater exploration: what can you find?
  • A: You should go explore and find out! <grin, wink wink, nudge nudge> Exploring will have rewards, hint hint. There are going to be many bodies of liquid.
  • Q: What about jet engines and airplanes?
  • A: Stock parts are mostly still there. No comment about new airplane parts.
  • Q: What about the aero model? Will it be like KSP 1, or something more like FAR?
  • A: We don't want to confuse players who are used to flying in KSP 1, so it'll have a very similar aero model.
  • Q: Will part damage work like in KSP 1?
  • A: No comment.
  • Q: Will it be possible to start a new career on a planet other than Kerbin?
  • A: No.
  • Q: Will it be possible to start a new career at a further tier in the tech tree? i.e. start a career at 1970s-equivalent rather than 1950s-equivalent
  • A: No.
  • Q: Will the "anomalies" of KSP 1 still exist? Will there be new alien artifacts on new planets?
  • A: Get out there and find out! <grin, wink wink, nudge nudge>
  • Q: Is there life more than trees and cactus and Kerbals in KSP2? Can the Kerbals find something out there?
  • A: Get out there and find out! <grin, wink wink, nudge nudge>
  • Q: Will we get something like air augmented rockets for use on worlds without oxygen in the atmosphere?
  • A: Interesting idea. No current plans to do so, will look into that.
  • Q: Will there be flags and decals?
  • A: Planning to, yes.
  • Q: Will kerbals get more stuff that they can do while EVA?
  • A: No comment.
  • Q: Will we get KAS/KIS functionality in the stock game?
  • A: None currently planned.
  • Q: Will there be Ansel support?
  • A: Don't know.
  • Q: Will it be possible to build a colony on Kerbin, e.g. so the player can make their own alternate launch sites?
  • A: Absolutely yes!
  • Q: Will there be mods for console, e.g. some sort of modhub?
  • A: Don't know.
  • Q: Will we see more variety of biomes / geology? e.g. volcanism, very dense atmospheres, completely liquid planets, etc.
  • A: Absolutely yes.
  • Q: Will the kerbals get more vocalizations, to go along with the new emotes?
  • A: No talking. Lots of screaming, though. [Snark note: I heard a demo of this the other day. It was hysterical.]
    default_k_wink.gif
  • Q: Are vessels still a tree structure? Can there be multi-path / loops?
  • A: Don't have a detailed answer for that. Things are still in development.
  • Q: Will there be a playable demo?
  • A: Don't know.
  • Q: Will we be able to mod new science "situations"? e.g. if we wanted to have experiments for low / middle / upper atmosphere. In KSP 1 it's an enum and therefore unmoddable.
  • A: Not specifically aware of any obstacles to that, but I'm not the authority on that.
  • Q: Will there be bigger asteroids?
  • A: Possibly.
  • Q: Will you use Unity ECS?
  • A: Don't know.
  • Q: Will there be tools for porting KSP 1 part mods to KSP 2?
  • A: Not planning to.
  • Q: Will something like PartTools be a thing?
  • A: There will be a replacement for PartTools, designed to be easier to use.
  • Q: Are you using PBR shaders? Will you be providing any tools to help people convert existing mod textures to PBR?
  • A: Heavy use of PBR, yes. No conversion tools.
  • Q: Will you include FleX support for GPGPU acceleration?
  • A: Don't know.
  • Q: Will there be tools to aid interplanetary missions? i.e. transfer window planner, something better than guessing angles
  • A: Yes, absolutely. No comment about specific details, though.
  • Q: Will there be persistent rotation?
  • A: Yes.
  • Q: Will sound be muffled as you gain altitude?
  • A: Yes.
  • Q: Will rocket plumes change with gaining altitude (i.e. pressure-dependent)
  • A: Yes.
 

Riel

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I don't know man, as beautiful as it might be to look at weather, failing a mission because you drop in the middle of a storm seams frustrating and outside the reasonable scope of the game.
 

Hellraiser

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I don't know man, as beautiful as it might be to look at weather, failing a mission because you drop in the middle of a storm seams frustrating and outside the reasonable scope of the game.

If the storms are visible from orbit it would be ok, you could always decide to land later or switch landing sites. Maybe even reconsider on the mission planning stage the timing since we will now have axial tilt and thus seasons which they could have tied into weather pattern odds. In any case probing a celestial body to know the weather conditions, so that you design future craft around them, wouldn't be that different from what we have in KSP1 already with atmo and gravity in general. Also I could imagine it could be optional in the difficulty setting just like plasma comms cutoff or line of sight loss probe control is.

Wind as another grognard difficulty option would also be good since the damn thing is always a factor when launching rockets in real life with launches getting postponed all the time due to it.
 

Hellraiser

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FYI supposedly there will be no weather and clouds which is the first piece of decline news so far

Clouds were visible in one of the "early pre-alpha gameplay" vidyas they released.



None on seen planets though. Well, we will see. In any case weather was denied according to the community group that got flown to meet the devs (Scott Manley and some other streamers).
 

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