Gamepro Feature: The 26 Best RPGs

[The Rambling Sage]

Fallout 1/2 didn't make the list, but Kingdom Hearts 2 and Persona 3 did, huh?

Fuck 'em.

While i do not aprove of leaving Fallout outside of a list about the best RPGs ever, leaving Persona 3 outside would have been just as idiotic. ALL of the MegaTen games, or at least those of the main franchises inside the metaverse, are exellent games with unique storylines, complex and rewarding mechanics, and LOTS of ideas and experimental concepts that if implemented by a non-japanesse game instead would have the Codex signing fucking praises all day long. And Persona 3 is a worthy addition to the already incredibly good MegaTen.

 

[Mamon]

Ocarina of Time is my favorite game ever, but it shouldn't be on this list. It's an action/adventure game, not an RPG. Not even Nintendo calls it an RPG.

 

[pkt-zer0]

LOTS of ideas and experimental concepts that if implemented by a non-japanesse game instead would have the Codex signing fucking praises all day long. And Persona 3 is a worthy addition to the already incredibly good MegaTen.

Doubt it, both statements. Tacking on a dating sim to a recycled and formulaic battle system doesn't really make Persona 3 more than yet another boring dungeon crawling JRPG. I haven't played any of the main series SMT games (yet), though, but I really hope that Persona 3 isn't one of the franchise's high points.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

I'd give some credit to the press-turn system. The SMT series has a lot of difficulty for an RPG, as well as some strategic depth, which is rare in jRPGs. There's an element of grinding, but knowing the region and what the common spells used and ingesting a mitama (or whatever they're called) to counter it, as well as exploiting strengths and weaknesses was a breath of fresh air. The series is probably the best jRPG series both for story content and battle system, and is an enjoyable dungeon crawler.

Persona 3 is meh for me. I mean, it's better than your average jRPG, but that's not saying much.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

Doubt it, both statements.

Those statements were about the entire MegaTen universe, not Persona 3. About Persona 3 i said it was a worthy adition, not the best MegaTen game ever (that's SMT2, IMO). And it is a worthy adition: The idea of the characters having a life and responsabilities outside "adventuring" is one of the most interesting things of the Magical Realism / Modern Occult genre and it was pretty cool to see it explored, in gaming, outside Dinamic Novels and P&P RPGs. The way the social links were implemented into the game, mainly the part about them unlocking or empowering Personas, was very "in character" with both the themes of the Persona series and the inspirations behind it all. And having to throw a balancing act between all the "dating sim" elements was a nice change of pace from the dungeon crawling, and again an exploration of elements of the genre that computer games rarely dare explore, at least in such a spotlight, outside Dinamic Novels and, yes, Dating Sims of the Magical Realism / Modern Occult inclination.

So i reckon that Persona 3 isn't "THE greatest RPG ever", but it actually is a pretty good one following both it's genre in ways little explored by gaming and at the same time the MegaTen tradition of being unique, trying things out, and experimenting with uncommon elements and ideas - And at the same time is a better game than most crappy things in that list, by FAR. And also in the Codex list... but that's just me. Since the other MegaTen tradition is mixing and matching elements of previous games and see what comes out the gene machine (the fusion system and the diplomacy system being two examples of elements that have been explored, refined, and experimented with in most games set somewhere in the Metaverse) i can't wait to see what they will do with those ideas in new MegaTen games, since they were pretty well received.

And basicly, any "Best RPG ever" list that doesn't include every single MegaTen game since SMT is lying :wink:

I haven't played any of the main series SMT games (yet),

Begin with SMT: Nocturne, since it breaks from the original SMT1&2 storyline, some saying it is a rewrite with modern sensibilities and storytelling in mind and others saying is kind of a prequel that's not really a prequel... or something. It is polished and refined without being "MegaTen lite", as the Persona series is usually refered to. If you, as you should by being in the Codex, totally HATE Dante, of Devil May Cry fame, get the original (and harder) edition instead of Maniax, or wait for a bit: I do not know if there are plans to release the super-mega-special edition, or whatever it is called in moonspeak, of the Maniax version in the West, but it removes what little Dante there was and rewrites the "True Demon" extra storyline/path/ending with Kuzunoha Raido, from SMT: Devil Summoner fame, in place of him.

I would say Raido is a lot more charismatic than the other guy, but then we are talking Dante here... So too are my shoes.

[Edits] Fixed some things, broke others.

 

[A user named cat]

Wow, what a coincidence. I'm actually still playing through Persona 2: Innocent Sin (English translation). Dialogue is really off and on, some of it so out of place that it should've stayed in Japanese and the characters act like silly and bickering dipshits half the time

I'd hardly call the series the best jRPGs for battle systems though. Both SMT and the first couple Persona games have pretty blah battle systems with a few unique features tossed in, but that doesn't make them more fun especially the fucking repetitive and bizarre demon negotiating. I'd put Valkyrie Profile, Tales of Destiny 2, Star Ocean 2, Vagrant Story and a few others above them as far as that area is concerned.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

If we're talking jRPGs, would you folks recommend Final Fantasy Tactics? I like political intrigue stories and tactical turn-based combat, but am turned off by anime.

 

[A user named cat]

Tactics is a fun game for a while but I don't know if you'll be able to make it through the entire thing. The battles just become incredibly monotonous after a while and start to lose their flavor, lack of variation. It doesn't help when the game is basically built around them.

For a similar game with a more enjoyable battle system but much less story, I'd say to play Vandal Hearts. You'll at least be able to play it through and run into some challenging fights later in that'll test your strategic skills.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

Eh, that's disappointing. I was looking for a game that had good combat and a good story, but it seems that none exist.

 

[A user named cat]

Well I wouldn't go into a tactical RPG looking for a good story, as that isn't really the focus. Sure Tactics go deeper than other games of the like and you might dig the story, but the game still boils down to a shitload of combat and long battles. So for a game of that type, I'd be more focused on how well the battle system works and if it'll hold your interest. Which is why I recommended Vandal Hearts, as it has elements which Tactics lacked. I really liked how directional attacks worked in it, for one prime example.

 

[Fat Dragon]

I thought FF Tactics battle system was pretty good for me. The problem I had was all of the random battles you'd face on the world map. Battles in this game can be quite long so when you just want to go to a town that's one blip away on the map it sucks when you have to spend 20 minutes fighting just to get their.

Game has a damned good soundtrack though.

 

[Lord Chambers]

Ogre Battle 64 has a pretty involved story. I don't think most people will understand everything the first play through. It also has choices and consequences, although they are few and more of a story-branching nature than closing/opening quest lines.

The majority of the gameplay is tactical, where you pit the teams you've build out of different classes against opposing army of teams. If the game were more challenging I'd say it had a great story and great gameplay, but as it is, even if you don't understand how the battle system works, you'll still be able to wipe the floor with anything you throw out there. It has a great story and decent combat.

 

[Zeus]

If we're talking jRPGs, would you folks recommend Final Fantasy Tactics? I like political intrigue stories and tactical turn-based combat, but am turned off by anime.

Final Fantasy Tactics is one of my all-time favorite games. It has the best Final Fantasy "job" system, improving on FF5 and blowing the FF3j DS out of the water. There's something truly satisfying about training a little guy as a knight long enough for him to learn how to use a shield, then turning him into a buff little white mage who can still use that shield. Plus, it's challenging as hell. If you're the type who like difficulty slowly and steadily ramped up, you'll be frustrated with this game. Every other battle is a cakewalk or a fight to the death. But I always found that sort of thing interesting, like in the new King's Bounty game. It keeps me on my toes.

Unfortunately, the storyline is, at best, incomprehensible. The translation is ridiculously bad, maybe even worse than Xenogears. But there's a lot less of it, as the focus really is on the tactical battles.

If you can be won over by the theme of a game, like if you are the type who played Throne of Darkness just because you like samurai, there's plenty of political intrigue in this game. Factions aplenty, churches, governments, rebels, cults, the whole nine yards. There's a plot twist every ten seconds, just good luck following it all.

That said, the gameplay fun and addictive, and the soundtrack really is one of Square's all time best.

(See, this is what happens when Gamepro publishes a 26 Best RPGs list consisting entirely of console games. *grins*)

 

[A user named cat]

I agree about the job system in Tactics being enjoyable. Problem was it required a lot of work. If a game promotes grinding like that the battles shouldn't be so long and they were in that game. Especially later in, when I got tired of it all and quit playing. Even simple encounters could take up to 10 minutes or so, and you'd be fighting the same enemies using the same exact strategies.

Speaking of Xenogears, there's another one that I never finished. I remember quitting right before the second disk at some orphanage, because I had heard of the ever lasting cutscene dialogue coming up. The story just wasn't interesting enough to be worth sitting through that. Plus the encounter rate in that game was outrageous, trying to make your way through dungeons took ages because you had random battles every 2 steps. Could've done without the whole robot thing too, the mech battles were just boring.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Final Fantasy VII was, is, and probably always will be the most important RPG of all time. It proved that RPGs don't have to be medieval-set tales of lore, nor do they have to read like children's bedtime stories. FFVII featured mature themes in a modern industrial setting and both fit the RPG genre like a glove. With plenty of stylized characters, an innovative story, and an intuitive and enjoyable battle system,

Sig material right here.

 

[xedoc gpr]

Even two years after its initial release, the game is still a feast for the eyes and is proof that game companies need to make more first-person RPG games.

So the game proves we need more role play game games?

Nicely put.

No, it clearly says that the graphics are hawt therefore we need more first person RPGs as opposed to more traditional ones because the reviewer luvs the first person gfx.

I give this attempt at a "snarky Codex post" a 6/10. You haven't developed the touch yet, but keep tryig.

 

[Lemunde]

Looks more like a list of the top most popular RPGs of all time with a couple of underdogs thrown in to make it seem like it's not.

Final Fantasy VII was, is, and probably always will be the most important RPG of all time. It proved that RPGs don't have to be medieval-set tales of lore, nor do they have to read like children's bedtime stories. FFVII featured mature themes in a modern industrial setting and both fit the RPG genre like a glove. With plenty of stylized characters, an innovative story, and an intuitive and enjoyable battle system,

Ahahahahahahaha

%$#@!

 

[SkeleTony]

Fallout 1/2 didn't make the list, but Kingdom Hearts 2 and Persona 3 did, huh?

Fuck 'em.

While i do not aprove of leaving Fallout outside of a list about the best RPGs ever, leaving Persona 3 outside would have been just as idiotic. ALL of the MegaTen games, or at least those of the main franchises inside the metaverse, are exellent games with unique storylines, complex and rewarding mechanics, and LOTS of ideas and experimental concepts that if implemented by a non-japanesse game instead would have the Codex signing fucking praises all day long. And Persona 3 is a worthy addition to the already incredibly good MegaTen.

Irrelevant since Persona IS a console styled RPG. It is therefore NOT an RPG at all.

The No True Scotsman abides...

 

[Xor]

I have a friend who plays FFT obsessively, going through the game with odd challenges like a "3 thieves party" or "single character challenge". So if you like doing the same thing over and over in slightly different ways, there's that.

For me, Tactics was fun for a single playthrough, although there's only a few battles I found particularly hard, and the boss of the game was just laughable.

 

[The Rambling Sage]

Irrelevant since Persona IS a console styled RPG. It is therefore NOT an RPG at all.

The No True Scotsman abides...

Well, if we are going to get technical anything that doesn't requires dice, two dozen books, and a couple of friends isn't an RPG. :wink:

 

[A user named cat]

I think that's just one of those retarded hivemind mentality standards, where some people think jRPGs don't count as RPGs yet somehow hack n' slashers do.

 

[Annie Mitsoda]

This list makes me /facepalm.

So do discussions of "what makes an RPG." Because I am a huge fucking nerd and I am not afraid to admit it, I did my college honors project involving sci-fi and fantasy. And in that, I made an attempt to draw borders around what the definitions are for each genre. The answer is that the border is really fucking muddy, seriously, what the shit. It made me think more and more that defining genre is kind of a silly pissing match.

This came up again a long while back when I was having a disagreement with a former* lead designer who wanted stuff in a game simply because he defended it as being "more RPG." I seriously nearly flipped over the conference table with rage. RPGs are the LEAST well-defined genre in the history of ever, and have so many elements that are branded with that type that calling something "more RPG" is the most blandy-bland nondefininable statement in the history of ever, something that stirs up so much controversy and growling that to me it seems pointless to really waste energy defending any group of characteristics, and instead focus on what one wants for a user experience and defend THAT, piece by piece. (hello run-on sentence, btw)

I can understand why people like CRPGs. I can understand why people like JRPGs. I can understand why people like SRPGs. I like all three. Calling any one of those three "not a real RPG" seems to invite a pissing contest rather than real discussion. And my issue with my ex-lead then was that I don't like the idea of EVER conceding something in gameplay simply in the name of genre - if you're thinking about THAT instead of the statement that should always be in designer's minds of IS THIS FUN OR WHAT - that made me lose my mind a little. (Thankfully my Obsidian peeps got their heads in the game on that one, and concessions of that type shouldn't be something you see coming out of that design house, ladiez and gentlemints)

Anyhow. That list blows. And that pic for Persona 3 is from FES, and so far from the original set of the game that I gots to sigh with deep consternation.


* he's not at Obsidian anymore, so don't worry.

 

[JarlFrank]

Btw, are you still technically part of the Obsidian team?

The thing that matters is that she is p. hawt.

 

[Annie Mitsoda]

1. Not still part of Obsidian team. Freelancing currently, and job-hunting in Seattle area.

2. OH NOES IT LOOKS LIKE HOTLINKING OF MY PIC IS THE FAIL OH NOOOOES.*

I appreciate the statements regarding my looks, but I hope that you will pick up my games and judge me on THOSE, plz k thx. That way if you just know me from those I shall know if you are sincere in call-outs of either praise or fucktardery (because cripes knows I wish to avoid the latter, as it is bad).

Also one day I want to see people arguing over some male dev's work and someone post pics of him and someone be like "OMG I don't care what his work is like he is GORRRRRRGEOUSSSSS." That will be the day I WIN. MUAHAHAHAHAHAorsomething.


*EDIT: nm JarlFrank is conscientious and fixed it. BTW I owe that pic to Jessica Edge, who is good with a camera, made me look p. nice, and is way more fly than I could aspire to be, in case anyone asks. She is also married and Feargus's sister so OH SNAP!

 

[JarlFrank]

Also one day I want to see people arguing over some male dev's work and someone post pics of him and someone be like "OMG I don't care what his work is like he is GORRRRRRGEOUSSSSS." That will be the day I WIN. MUAHAHAHAHAHAorsomething.

That will happen as soon as I start developing RPGs.

Nice braids btw.