Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Underrail: The Incline Awakens

Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
246
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Have decided to get rid of the natives to avoid future invasions, but I'm stumbling upon Magnar. Any idea how to get rid of his ghost as a psi build without the torch yet? It seems most vulnerable to fire, but I'm not sure it's enough to kill him.
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
- Metathermics isn't great. It's very good early on when Cryokinesis is your best ability. And Thermodynamic Destabilization is your way for dealing with crowds before you get Locus of Control. But after that it is rarely used. Maybe droppable.

- The build lacks a way to fight machines. The robot spam in parts of Expedition is nearly unbeatable in combat for this build. Fighting 8+ 700 health robots with near immunity to mechanical, heat, and frost damage just isn't possible. And the crowded rooms in some areas make sneaking very hard. It would be good to have a backup plan if caught while sneaking.

This is where Metathermics and Thermodynamic Destabilization come into play. Mark a Strongman, drop a Proxy and send a crit Tele Punch into his face. Doesn't matter how much they resist when each punch hits for 1k+. This was usually enough to kill him and the rest of the pack that I funneled into a corridor. Only enemy during Expedition that gave me some issues were the Protectors, but nothing that stopped the game.

I know your build was primarily about sneaking but Metathermics ended up being really good for my Dominating psi run.

Good to know. I couldn't try this, since I had no Electronics or Biology skill for the Expedition, so no good Headband. And I think I would need to be higher level or have more Will anyways to do enough damage with the Telekinetic Punch. But it seems like the Destabilization wouldn't be enough by itself to blow up the others. Strongmen have 70% mechanical resistance and 90% heat resistance. Something like 450 effective would be needed, right? Follow up with a MK III plasma grenade?
 

Alexios

Augur
Patron
Joined
Feb 18, 2014
Messages
444
so who did spears better? underrail or aod?
More like Fallout 2. :incline:

Speaking of which, Expedition has so many similiarities with Fallout 2.
You have the spears, the healing powder, the tribals, the brahmin (bison), the car that runs on energy cells and has a big trunk, the muties that used to be quite hostile but now have a large town that's friendly, the...
It really needs a travel map for the jetski though.
 

Fenix

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
6,458
Location
Russia atchoum!
- The build lacks a way to fight machines.

If your main tool for that is Psychokinesis and Electrokinesis, then Psychostatic Electricity could be of some use.

But was it really necessary? Could they have been designed differently?

I feel that 25% of character HP is way too cheap for that. If you are 3 Con build, you shouldn't get hit at all anyway, and TM gives you a tons of possiilities fo rthat in exchange for 25% HP that never actually will be spent.
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
But was it really necessary? Could they have been designed differently?

I feel that 25% of character HP is way too cheap for that. If you are 3 Con build, you shouldn't get hit at all anyway, and TM gives you a tons of possiilities fo rthat in exchange for 25% HP that never actually will be spent.

Plus, the feats have no will requirement. For many builds it's just a 55-60 skill point investment (plus one or two feats) with effectively no other downside.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,665
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
It really needs a travel map for the jetski though.

Funnily enough, I've been thinking along those lines for the past couple of weeks, although I don't believe a simple dotted-line travel map would suffice.

While the Black Sea probably boasts a decent-sized "screen count," it nevertheless ends up feeling very small. Even in the slowest jet ski loaded to capacity with cargo, every location is pretty much just a quick handful of screens away from every other location in a roughly semicircular configuration. One almost wonders why the coordinate system exists at all except as set dressing.

Furthermore, for some reason (probably the random Jet Skier NPCs and [no doubt scripted] faction patrols) I'd been expecting danger and unpredictable encounters when I got my very first jet ski. I expected to see pirates just around the corner in South Underrail, or to run into sea serpents unexpectedly in the Black Sea. You will run into sea serpents unexpectedly exactly once, but then never again. Like rathounds, they always respawn in the same spots, and if you avoid those spots, safety is assured. The pirates never seem to venture past their ports, at least in my game.

Basically, the Black Sea is a static little pond. Underrail's room-by-room structure works when on foot and when those rooms comprise a very large, many-layered, interconnected maze; not so much when aboard a fast vehicle and the rooms comprise a relatively small, mostly single-layered, open half-circle of points of interest.

I think that "faux travel" would have worked much better. Basically, in order to travel, the player would first navigate into open water, then select a heading (based on discovered coordinates, some landmark seen in the distance [described through dialogue], guesswork, at random, etc.) and "sail" toward that heading much as an actual ship would. Your jet ski would animate moving, but remain centered on the screen. After a short while, the screen would fade to black, then fade in at (or near) the desired destination, at the wrong destination/middle of nowhere, at an intervening destination (a small isle, for example), into a random encounter, or possibly even go off-course.

Instead there is a glorified swimming pool surrounded by a semicircle of pests to exterminate. Sail the high seas... for about one minute, until you reach your destination. Granted, "faux travel" wouldn't add much more DOWNTIME to travel, but it would add a greater sense of scale and a lot more room for navigational error.
 
Last edited:

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,202
Location
Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
so i just bought the phaser jet ski.

it's fast!!!

lightningspeed.jpg
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
Patron
Joined
Oct 6, 2012
Messages
1,874,665
Location
Roanoke, VA
Grab the Codex by the pussy
so i just bought the phaser jet ski.

it's fast!!!

lightningspeed.jpg

That was my first jet ski. It's literally all been downhill from there. The only one that's faster ends up being slower unless you ride it naked.

Don't try to take it into combat versus humans though, because one well-placed burst from a pirate riding a floating garbage bin will sink it.
 

Parabalus

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2015
Messages
17,442
The primary decision in a mana system is that I have a finite, common resource, and so I must play a zero sum game, and decide which skills should eat up that mana. One of cooldowns' primary differences from mana or even Vancian is that the costs become totally disconnected. (Conversely, Underrail mitigates this through scarcity of AP.)

"Mana on an individual ability basis" just makes zero sense whatsoever in this conversation.

Underrail already has mana for PSI. If you add stamina for e.g. melee attacks and it doesn't interact with psi points(like luka suggested) they are disconnected. The more colours you add, the closer you get to cooldowns.

It doesn't make much sense.

Just have one bar for everything like in my system.
And no boosters either, just accelerators like this one https://www.underrail.com/wiki/index.php?title=Psionic_Accelerator

That shared bar is already exists, that's AP.
But was it really necessary? Could they have been designed differently?

I feel that 25% of character HP is way too cheap for that. If you are 3 Con build, you shouldn't get hit at all anyway, and TM gives you a tons of possiilities fo rthat in exchange for 25% HP that never actually will be spent.

Plus, the feats have no will requirement. For many builds it's just a 55-60 skill point investment (plus one or two feats) with effectively no other downside.

Styg did say he intended for TM to be useful as a dip for non-PSI characters, he certainly fulfilled that promise.
 

hell bovine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 9, 2013
Messages
2,711
Location
Secret Level
I have to admit, deep caverns are even more annoying than I remember them to be. I'll be taking a break, because the locust/crab/spider spam has exhausted my patience reserves.

The more I look at the encounter design, the more it seems to me as if Styg is taking inspiration from real time games, and then simply transplanting them into turn based. Styg , if you are taking feedback, that's one sure way to kill fun. Zergling rush is fun in Starcraft, because you can move all zerglings simultaneously, so it is a fast-paced action even if you have a huge stack of them. Building a huge skeleton army in HoMM III is fun too, because your 1000+ skelly stack is moving and attacking as a single unit. Both tactics are based on the same idea - producing a huge no. of cheap and weak units quickly - and both work, because they don't try to do it the same way.

Consider the following: those locusts a hive is producing every turn could have been created as a single "swarm" unit, which attacks with mutliple stings. Because it would be a single unit, this would take only one turn. Even if you let a hive run dry, this would result in maybe 5 enemy units total, but the damage would be the same, provided you'd code each swarm to attack like a shotgun, that is fire several shots with separate chances of hitting. What would be different is that the player wouldn't have to wait several turns for the enemies to finish their actions.
 

None

Scholar
Joined
Sep 5, 2019
Messages
1,484
- Metathermics isn't great. It's very good early on when Cryokinesis is your best ability. And Thermodynamic Destabilization is your way for dealing with crowds before you get Locus of Control. But after that it is rarely used. Maybe droppable.

- The build lacks a way to fight machines. The robot spam in parts of Expedition is nearly unbeatable in combat for this build. Fighting 8+ 700 health robots with near immunity to mechanical, heat, and frost damage just isn't possible. And the crowded rooms in some areas make sneaking very hard. It would be good to have a backup plan if caught while sneaking.

This is where Metathermics and Thermodynamic Destabilization come into play. Mark a Strongman, drop a Proxy and send a crit Tele Punch into his face. Doesn't matter how much they resist when each punch hits for 1k+. This was usually enough to kill him and the rest of the pack that I funneled into a corridor. Only enemy during Expedition that gave me some issues were the Protectors, but nothing that stopped the game.

I know your build was primarily about sneaking but Metathermics ended up being really good for my Dominating psi run.

Good to know. I couldn't try this, since I had no Electronics or Biology skill for the Expedition, so no good Headband. And I think I would need to be higher level or have more Will anyways to do enough damage with the Telekinetic Punch. But it seems like the Destabilization wouldn't be enough by itself to blow up the others. Strongmen have 70% mechanical resistance and 90% heat resistance. Something like 450 effective would be needed, right? Follow up with a MK III plasma grenade?

When I was doing all this I was like level 22-25. Effective skill was at ~300. 185% crit bonus. Destabilization was also doing like 360% damage. If the combo didn't work right out of the gate just drop Entropic Reoccurence and an Imprint and back up into a room or something.
 

Black Angel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 23, 2016
Messages
2,910
Location
Wonderland
Have decided to get rid of the natives to avoid future invasions, but I'm stumbling upon Magnar. Any idea how to get rid of his ghost as a psi build without the torch yet? It seems most vulnerable to fire, but I'm not sure it's enough to kill him.
Drink the Juice, stack Temporal Distortions on him and Stasis on the next turn (when TDs staccs have 1 turn left to trigger) to put more staccs of TDs on him.
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
I remember someone mentioned difficulty trying to steal from the Captain's safe. I was just able to succeed on my char with 405 stealth. But it still required the Burglar feat and a two-part theft. One pass to open the safe. Another to steal it's contents. I'm guessing his detection is above 300 since he still nearly turned red in two or three seconds of being close by.
 

Goromorg

Savant
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
278
What's up with mutie exiles? I promised them medicaments, passed persuasion check and their leader allowed me to explore the underground facility.

Now I don't have any dialogue options with Aegis doc about medical supplies.
 
Joined
Apr 10, 2018
Messages
6,822
Location
Mouse Utopia
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
What's up with mutie exiles? I promised them medicaments, passed persuasion check and their leader allowed me to explore the underground facility.
Now I don't have any dialogue options with Aegis doc about medical supplies.
For some reason the dialogue option only exists with Doc over the radio.
 

Blackmill

Scholar
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
326
I remember someone mentioned difficulty trying to steal from the Captain's safe. I was just able to succeed on my char with 405 stealth. But it still required the Burglar feat and a two-part theft. One pass to open the safe. Another to steal it's contents. I'm guessing his detection is above 300 since he still nearly turned red in two or three seconds of being close by.
it was me. This confirms my suspicion that his detection is set to 1k. From wiki:
Stealth rating lower than 40% the detection rating leads to instant detection.

did you find max quality core in safe? Just curious if its hand placed item or i had odd luck

I think it was 158 or 138. I can't remember which. So not quite max quality. The best core I've found is 166. The highest quality any item I've found was a 177 Q black cloth.
 

Goromorg

Savant
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
278
What merchant can sell highest quality cloth? Free Drones merchant sometimes has good black cloth, but so far I haven't seen kevlar or blast above 110 quality.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom