Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Decline Why haven't more RPGs succeeded at C&C like Fallout has?

Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,307
to make a deep game you need quality and talent. talent is rare, gets rarer by the minute, many of our heroes of the past were complete talentless hacks only kept afloat by outstanding teams.
history showed that the big masses can't recognize quality even if it bit their asses and that they're willing to buy whatever shit some corrupt journos is willing to shill for.
quality is expensive to achieve, talent is expensive to obtain.
why in hell should some trump wannabe gamble money to produce something of quality when he can pour a few dimes and produce a best seller anyway?
Truer words have not been spoken on Codex my friend.
 

ScrotumBroth

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2018
Messages
1,288
Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,053
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
If you're a real anti-fanboy, you call Vince "VD" and by that you don't actually mean "Vault Dweller" but "Veneral Disease".
 

Darth Canoli

Arcane
Joined
Jun 8, 2018
Messages
5,687
Location
Perched on a tree
And well, Fallout game can not to be said as successful by today's standard~

Says the guy with a bone in his avatar's nose ...

How many people played cRPG back then and how many nowadays ?
We would need the exact numbers to know that.

Anyway, most of masterpieces, paintings, movies, symphonies were made by broke artists but they'll be remembered forever.

Who's going to remember numanuma, BT4 and PoE series devs in 50 years ?
 
Last edited:

Üstad

Arcane
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
8,492
Location
Türkiye
The formula is very simple, just refer to this post by Jarl Frank to get a sense of what i'm talking about. Considering the RPG revival that's been going on these past few years, why have so many developers failed to deliver on their promises ("We are inspired by Fallout hurp-dee-durp") ala Age of Decadence, Wasteland 2 and to a lesser extend the PoE series? Obviously there are UnderRail and Atom RPG and they do a somewhat good job of replicating the formula, but why have there been so many failures? Is the cost of making such a game just that high or talent levels required that super human? I doubt Cain and Boyarsky had that much more money or talent than some of our current-day developers who attempt this stuff.
AoD has better C&C.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,307
The formula is very simple, just refer to this post by Jarl Frank to get a sense of what i'm talking about. Considering the RPG revival that's been going on these past few years, why have so many developers failed to deliver on their promises ("We are inspired by Fallout hurp-dee-durp") ala Age of Decadence, Wasteland 2 and to a lesser extend the PoE series? Obviously there are UnderRail and Atom RPG and they do a somewhat good job of replicating the formula, but why have there been so many failures? Is the cost of making such a game just that high or talent levels required that super human? I doubt Cain and Boyarsky had that much more money or talent than some of our current-day developers who attempt this stuff.
AoD has better C&C.
Spoken like a true cuck.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
And well, Fallout game can not to be said as successful by today's standard~

Says the guy with a bone in his avatar's nose ...
Precisely~ Over the years I notice I have a tendency to play games with not-stellar sale record. The best one is probbably Fallout New Vegas, but that is nowhere near enough to make FNV2 possible. Fallout 1/2, PST, BG series, IWD series.. They have stellar reputation, sure, but going by sale record it's not that high as you would imagine from their fame.

Highest sale record game like Skyrim? Not play. Mass Effect series? Not play. Dragon Age? Nope.

Game developers should tremble at my selection.

EDIT: It is going to my book selection too. Proper published books is obviously, because they are niche as fuck. But even amateur novels by Chinese also are quite niche. My favourites generally going by medium low number of readers. The books with top most number of viewers, I generally dont like~
 
Last edited:

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,952
Fallout had a very gritty, bleak world. Yes there were flashes of the absurd, but the basic setting felt cohesive and believable.

It's how the two interplay that works well. It's very serious and very silly and how oddly they work together highlights how fucked up and wrong the world has become.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Underrail succeeded. Underrail is honestly better than both FO 1&2 in terms of actual gameplay, builds, and perhaps even world-building. Can't speak on the writing as I never could finish either of the FO games due to the horrendous combat.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
Underrail succeeded. Underrail is honestly better than both FO 1&2 in terms of actual gameplay, builds, and perhaps even world-building. Can't speak on the writing as I never could finish either of the FO games due to the horrendous combat.
I do like Underrail's story more than Fallout's, but I don't think it has the same amount of reactivity. Its been a while since I played it though.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
Underrail succeeded. Underrail is honestly better than both FO 1&2 in terms of actual gameplay, builds, and perhaps even world-building. Can't speak on the writing as I never could finish either of the FO games due to the horrendous combat.
Funnily enough I havent played Underrail and dont feel the urge to even not remove it from inventory.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
1,307
I do like Underrail's story more than Fallout's, but I don't think it has the same amount of reactivity. Its been a while since I played it though.
Really? that's interesting. It certainly does not have nearly enough reactivity, but i don't think that has ever been the intention of the developers.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
but I don't think it has the same amount of reactivity. Its been a while since I played it though.
It doesn't have the same reactivity in terms of how the final ending plays out, but there is a ton of reactivity in regards to faction quest lines, and actual in built C&C in terms of the games systems.
Funnily enough I havent played Underrail and dont feel the urge to even not remove it from inventory.
You're loss than? Not sure what to tell you. It's pretty much agreed that Underrail has some of the best turn based combat ever, and the story and world building is fascinating.
Really? that's interesting. It certainly does not have nearly enough reactivity, but i don't think that has ever been the intention of the developers.
It isn't. But even the second-hand reactivity we get is far better than most of what's out there now, and it compliments an amazing character building system and combat.
 

ItsChon

Resident Zoomer
Patron
Joined
Jul 1, 2018
Messages
5,381
Location
Երևան
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Oh, and all the NMA rejects that rate my FO posts retarded can suck my fucking balls. Anyone that actually trys to defend the abysmal nature of FO's early game combat is biased af, and if they don't admit it are being disingenuous. I never made it to the end game combat so I can't comment on it, but if it's anything like the early game, FO truly isn't worth playing through no matter how good the story/reactivity might be.
 

Ovg

Cipher
Joined
Apr 25, 2010
Messages
921
Location
Potato
Free market decided that what they are doing now lets them earn more money. Games are now much more widespread as a hobby, no longer a nieche that just us weirdos and degenerates inhabit. They don't need deep c&c, deep stories with good writing. They need a game they can play in their limited free time for 2 hours or so and a game where even if they forget stuff, they still can pick up their old save and play.
 

somewhatgiggly

Scholar
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
169
Well, Fallout itself always ends with the player ending up at point B (Master destroyed, Mariposa destroyed, barring the game over mutant endings). Same for Fallout 2 (Oil Rig nuked, Arroyo people saved). It's been argued on this site before that a part of Fallout's choice and consequence lies in the mechanics themselves, the choice of character build and the consequence of being able to interact with the world in certain ways and restricted in certain others.

That's just...the story?

Unless people want different plot endings/branches, which is alright...but you're still going to end up with pre-set endings in every case...the fuck do people want? The game to code itself around them as they play for a random ending every time? Make Radience Quests into Radience plots?
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
Patron
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
5,105
I think there's also the angle of simply choosing not to do so. After all, C&C is kinda rooted in exclusive content you only get to see if you take route X over route Y, and industry is allergic to additional costs they don't have to commit to. Of course this comes down to whether we're talking about meaningful C&C or where one NPC will simply be substituted with another to serve the exact same role depending on how the player handles it, for example.

Dragon-Age-Inquisition2014-12-0114-14-05-00-9667-png.jpg
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,043
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Well, Fallout itself always ends with the player ending up at point B (Master destroyed, Mariposa destroyed, barring the game over mutant endings). Same for Fallout 2 (Oil Rig nuked, Arroyo people saved). It's been argued on this site before that a part of Fallout's choice and consequence lies in the mechanics themselves, the choice of character build and the consequence of being able to interact with the world in certain ways and restricted in certain others.

That's just...the story?

Unless people want different plot endings/branches, which is alright...but you're still going to end up with pre-set endings in every case...the fuck do people want? The game to code itself around them as they play for a random ending every time? Make Radience Quests into Radience plots?

I wasn't criticising that structure, I was pointing out that Deus Ex games and Fallout both push the player from a predetermined start point to a predetermined end point, with flexibility in goals and optional sidequests along the way. The point being that I don't think Fallout 1 is necessarily a better example of C&C than Deus Ex, as the OP suggested - at least not just on the grounds that Deus Ex games push the player along a relatively linear story.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom