Obsidian General Discussion Thread

[Ninjerk]

I found this post to be interesting, and it discussed some issues that arose from the particular way PoE’s story was designed, so I thought I’d write a quick response.

As you may already know (from some interviews that discussed this a while back) - in the very early days of PoE, a number of people (Chris Avellone, Josh Sawyer, Eric Fenstermaker, me, Bobby Null, Jorge Salgado, possibly others I’m forgetting) all submitted story concepts for consideration. This was a very different process from previous projects, where one person (usually the lead narrative designer, but not always) developed the story on their own, largely in isolation from the rest of the team. On PoE, I think the goal was to draw ideas from multiple sources and generate greater narrative buy-in from key team members.

In practice, the most interesting ideas from multiple people’s stories ended up being pulled together into the final narrative. As you might imagine, this was sometimes good and sometimes bad. For example – the “artificially constructed gods” idea was taken from my story (so I’m glad you liked it), but it was separated from its original context, so it may not have worked as well when combined with ideas from the other stories.

(It’s also interesting that you thought Rymrgand had originated from a non-Engwithan source. That’s exactly what he was in his original conception.)

Narrative design is always a challenge in game development, and getting team buy-in is equally tough. I’ve seen it attempted in a number of ways, from a dictatorship-of-one to design-by-committee, and everything in between. What has worked best in my experience is when one person is ultimately responsible for the story, but the narrative (and the person in charge of the narrative) is flexible enough to incorporate ideas from many other teammates, while maintaining the right to occasionally veto ideas that just don’t fit. If you communicate the narrative vision effectively, the latter is usually not necessary, or you can at least twist an idea to make it work… but not always.

Ok, that was a longer answer than I’d intended, but hopefully it provides some insight into the RPG narrative process.

You must have some kind of spider sense.

 

[Sannom]

Them being mortal at one point is irrelevant, plenty of gods throughout human mythologies were human at some point.

Those guys aren't human though, they're artificial intelligences entirely made up by humans and then given agency.

For an obvious parallel, Faerûn has plenty of so-called "artificially constructed" gods. Mortals that elevated themselves to becoming a deity(I think they even made a game about this, hm…) I was never under the impression that this was a less than valid way of becoming a god, or it made you less of a god.

The difference is that Faerûn needs gods to function, its a fundamental underpinning of their reality, so as long as someone's in charge of each portfolio, they don't care who does it.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Those guys aren't human though, they're artificial intelligences entirely made up by humans and then given agency.

It seemed pretty heavily implied that they were once Engwithian.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Those guys aren't human though, they're artificial intelligences entirely made up by humans and then given agency.

It seemed pretty heavily implied that they were once Engwithian.

I did not get that inference at all, they came off to me as pretty definitely AI constructs. To be fair though, by that point in PoE I was largely skimming the text dumps.

 

[Prime Junta]

I did not get that inference at all, they came off to me as pretty definitely AI constructs. To be fair though, by that point in PoE I was largely skimming the text dumps.

AI is an imperfect analogy. They're powers shaped by machines from human souls who volunteered for apotheosis. I think it was hinted that they took on the values of the humans who make up their soul energy and a personality emerged on top of that. So Rymrgand emerged from a big crowd of nihilists, Woedica from a bunch of butthurt conservatives, Skaen from a bunch of even more butthurt slaves, and so on.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Looks to me closer to "one person is ultimately responsible for the story, but the narrative (and the person in charge of the narrative) is flexible enough to incorporate ideas from many other teammates" though Fenstermaker, Sawyer, and Patel ended up playing hot potato with it.

Based on everything we know about Eric Fenstermaker, does he sound like the kind of guy who’s flexible about incorporating ideas from many other teammates? He drove out some of Obsidian’s best talent because he was such an insecure and ultracompetitive cunt (no wonder Feargus loved him—they’re cut from the same cloth). Maybe he has an easier time working productively with women because he doesn’t feel the need to compete with them the same way?

Still, even from that account you gave, it sounds a lot more like rule by committee from the start.

 

[Doma]

 

[vortex]

What's high profile role-playing game?

 

[Roguey]

What's high profile role-playing game?

Big marketing budget.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

What's high profile role-playing game?

They didn't spec into stealth

 

[frajaq]

Seems like MSoft is fast on putting them to work on something for them

 

[Flou]

Klobrille is late to the party. They've had those openings for a while now, they just re-posted them.

 

[Tom Selleck]

first-person melee & ranged combat gameplay

 

[Wunderbar]

halo rpg

 

[rusty_shackleford]

halo rpg

 

[Ismaul]

Halo is already the greatest RPG of all time, haven't you heard?

Master Chief is the role of a lifetime.

 

[Duraframe300]

Dan Maas (Ex-Blizzard) has joined Obsidian as Production Director on a new Project

https://www.linkedin.com/in/danmaas/

https://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,477198/

 

[Sailor Woedica]

I found this post to be interesting, and it discussed some issues that arose from the particular way PoE’s story was designed, so I thought I’d write a quick response.

As you may already know (from some interviews that discussed this a while back) - in the very early days of PoE, a number of people (Chris Avellone, Josh Sawyer, Eric Fenstermaker, me, Bobby Null, Jorge Salgado, possibly others I’m forgetting) all submitted story concepts for consideration. This was a very different process from previous projects, where one person (usually the lead narrative designer, but not always) developed the story on their own, largely in isolation from the rest of the team. On PoE, I think the goal was to draw ideas from multiple sources and generate greater narrative buy-in from key team members.

In practice, the most interesting ideas from multiple people’s stories ended up being pulled together into the final narrative. As you might imagine, this was sometimes good and sometimes bad. For example – the “artificially constructed gods” idea was taken from my story (so I’m glad you liked it), but it was separated from its original context, so it may not have worked as well when combined with ideas from the other stories.

(It’s also interesting that you thought Rymrgand had originated from a non-Engwithan source. That’s exactly what he was in his original conception.)

Narrative design is always a challenge in game development, and getting team buy-in is equally tough. I’ve seen it attempted in a number of ways, from a dictatorship-of-one to design-by-committee, and everything in between. What has worked best in my experience is when one person is ultimately responsible for the story, but the narrative (and the person in charge of the narrative) is flexible enough to incorporate ideas from many other teammates, while maintaining the right to occasionally veto ideas that just don’t fit. If you communicate the narrative vision effectively, the latter is usually not necessary, or you can at least twist an idea to make it work… but not always.

Ok, that was a longer answer than I’d intended, but hopefully it provides some insight into the RPG narrative process.

Hi George! Your ideas for the gods in Pillars of Eternity were so good!!! Exiled Queen Woedica is so fierce and I loved that the gods are revealed to be like weird and artificial! The fantasy world you helped create is totally one of the best ever so thank you!

 

[Bester]

Flop soon, faggots.

 

[111111111]

Pillars elders-scrolls style coming soon

 

[Duraframe300]

So, today people lost their shit with Obsidian about two things we've known for months/years as if it was a BIG SURPRISE of unimaginable levels.

Get some fucking perspective ffs. If you want to laugh at Obsidian don't just do with shit arguments like your usual REEEEEEEEEEEEEEra poster. Get your trollin' some class.


I mean while you lovely people shitpost over tired old shit I'm just laughing my ass off that they hired for social media

https://www.linkedin.com/in/shylalane/

 

[Flou]

They continue to beef up their animation department, now they are hiring an another Animation Director. Long Ngyuen the current Animation Director is still within the company and if they are running it like their art department, they will use multiple directors due to the multiple projects they have.

 

[RickOmbo]

Why they are still in RPG section?

 

[Bester]

Why they are still in RPG section?

Because they have a strong fanbase of retarded soy loving cucks.

 

[Duraframe300]

Why they are still in RPG section?

Because Bethesda, Bioware and CD Projekt RED are.