KickStarter Monomyth - A first person action RPG/dungeon crawler - now in Open Backer Beta

[RatTower]

This week I mostly optimized stuff...



Loading a game from the menu is now way faster - the rest is streamed in as it has been the case before. Had to adapt the save system a bit for that. Next up: Combat AI and really finishing the last few rooms of the level section I've been working on.
So essentially we are where we were a couple weeks ago except this time performance is way better and everything is more tidy, organized and properly playable (i.e. not just for editor/feature testing).
Oh yeah I also added a system for combat/environment music (stock music for the moment). A couple more tweaks and the alpha can be played from beginning to end the way I actually imagined it.
Fingers crossed.

 

[Murk]

I might still remove the prompt or lower the distance for it on secrets. The thing is, there are many small levers, buttons and items that are otherwise nearly invisible.
Either way: The level I'm currently working on is almost finished, so I spent a bit of time on setting up a layout workflow.



Obviously a standard manual isn't really necessary as long as the ingame tool tips are explaining everything. I'm mostly thinking of attributes and the character system here.
But I do want to create some support material, which would otherwise only clutter the game in the form of lore dumps.

If you can think of any particularly nice looking cRPG manuals (or P&P books) please, feel free to post their names here.
I'd like to take a look at them. Ultima is obviously one, but there are just so many others.

Are you looking for visual style or about the content?

If the latter, then I strongly recommend you read Arcanum's manual if you haven't already. It does an amazing job of tying in-game mechanics, lore, setting theme, and tone all together. It even has a recipe for banana bread.

But putting the food aside, it's one of the best manuals I've had the joy of reading due to how it explains how things in game function -- like, "why can you have half-elves and half-orces, but not half-dwarves?" and things like what is up with magic/technology and their ability to interfere with one another.

 

[HarveyBirdman]

Next up: Combat AI

That enemy looked wayyyy too slow. It's like he was moving through a vat of honey, whereas the player character was greased lightning.

Otherwise, this looks incredible. I think you're going to knock it out of the park.

 

[RatTower]

That enemy looked wayyyy too slow. It's like he was moving through a vat of honey, whereas the player character was greased lightning.

Speaking of which...
I (re-)added status effects to movement speed.



At the moment speed potions stack. And I'm inclined to leave that in. The "Haste" spell will work differently though.
The same effect can of course be used in the opposite direction.
Slimes for example can slow you down now.

Also I'm currently trying to figure out how to properly weave weapon attributes into attack speed (which would make maces slower than swords, which are slower than daggers but daggers are obviously weaker etc).
I might consider speed potions there as well, but it will probably be capped at some point.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

 

[Baron Dupek]

essentially like in King's Field 4

haven't heard that name in a long, long time

 

[Ysaye]

essentially like in King's Field 4

haven't heard that name in a long, long time

My understanding is that it is the primary influencer for RatTower's game (even down to the current logo but more so to the design philosophies) although Arx Fatalis and UU are also strong influences I believe? I like the fact his project is well grounded; I think that will serve well when going to sell the game.

The combat shown already looks pretty good IMO (but can totally understand why he will tweek it and tweek it again); if he can get design good dungeons then he should end up in a good space, because he will then appeal to the general "Im a skilled player" crowd as well as the general fantasy rpg crowd (arguably the former is larger than the latter)....having said that, it's a lot easier said than done.

 

[RatTower]

King's Field was the original influence, yes. A simple, "open" dungeon crawler featuring an action combat system.
There is quite a bit of Arx and Ultima seeping in here and there though. Item interaction/combination basically works like in Arx (pnc adventure style) and the dialogue system is plucked directly from Ultima 7 with some minor changes (Monomyth distinguishes between local and global keywords - the earlier being everything a particular NPC mentioned during a conversation, while the latter are about general topics like rumors or stuff you noted from some document).

With the spawn points and general flow of the alpha level I also realized how strongly related KF and the Souls series really are from a design perspective. On the surface level DS is a gauntlet-like sequence of encounters. But if you take a closer look at the map design and the way certain places connect you realize that it's just a KF map with fewer/locked alternative paths. This becomes very apparent once you realize that certain doors in DS could just be dropped entirely and you'd still be able to play the game perfectly fine. One of those is the iron gate in undead burg, that leads down to lower undead burg and the capra demon. Its purpose is not so much locking you out from a later phase in the game (so you nicely stick to the path and don't break anything), it is literally just there for your own good - so you don't stumble down there and end up in a place where you get absolutely wrecked. If the door wasn't there and you could just leave to lower UB right away, nothing would break the game. There is no necessary boss fight or anything. You'd just "skip" ahead a bit (and not even that because eventually you'll have to ring the upper bell of awakening).

In fact there is a way to do exactly that, but you gotta know what you're doing: By getting the master key in the character selection you can go to lower blight town right away, pretty much skipping a good third of the game. So basically DS maps are just KF maps with a couple more doors to push you into the right direction, keeping you from wandering off.

Now here is the point where Monomyth's design principle - borrowing a lot from UU - comes in: You want different approaches to solving an area, cause that's at the core of Underworld-likes. So what if you could just lockpick the iron gate in undead burg? Or break it? Or blink through it? Or climb the tower wall and jump right over it? Then you have the basic flow of a DS map (doors and encounter strength pushing you into the right direction), with the freedom of a KF map by applying the principles of UU's game design (basically just going wherever you please). And then you can create a nice dungeon where the regular players can just play it like a good old dungeon crawl and the creative players get to do their own thing.

Spoiler

Or you just design the areas like Thief maps.

I'm really looking forward to alpha testing.
I just wanna see people play the level and what happens when they end up in front of a locked door.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I'm really looking forward to alpha testing.
I just wanna see people play the level and what happens when they end up in front of a locked door.

Do you have a plan for when that might be and how you'll do it?

 

[Stormcrowfleet]

Can't remember the last time I was so pumped up for a new game. This is to be a massive incline. For once I'll pay whatever price* it is, on release.

* Don't charge 100$ please.

 

[RatTower]

Do you have a plan for when that might be and how you'll do it?

Soon™

But seriously, I'm still trying to stick to my old plan:
1) Internal Testing
2) Testing with friends and family
3) Testing with a selected few
4) And finally an open alpha (which may be released in the context of a small crowdfunding campaign to pay some additional artists like a musician)

I've been on a business trip again so work's been cutting into my free time a lot lately. But the first thing I did when I came home this week, was doing an intensive test run and noting down a good amount of minor and major issues. I'm currently working to fix those, which may still take a bit, but it's pretty much preparation for phase 2 now. The alpha area is done, the systems are done, the menus are done, etc etc - so it's really just fixing things and testing. How many things? Well, about 10 sticky notes full with issues. I fixed about a fifth since wednesday, but then I didn't have much time (and will have a couple things to do next week, but after thursday I should be golden again - until two weeks later when there is another deadline. After that I'll take a week or two off work. Period. So phase 2 will start around that time the latest - i hope)

Then we'll see how we proceed.

Can't remember the last time I was so pumped up for a new game. This is to be a massive incline. For once I'll pay whatever price* it is, on release.

* Don't charge 100$ please.

I haven't done the maths on that yet, but I don't think it will be a Dominions 5 / Grimoire situation, where the price is extra high, because the game has to profit from a tiny niche (it still is a niche, but I think the niche is bigger so I got a bit more freedom there).
It's largely a matter of costs in the end. Without trying to suggest them as some sort of a rolemodel, the developers of Realms of Arkania HD actually have/had the same legal structure I have in mind (since they are from the same country). What I'm trying to say is, they roughly had the same costs from an organizational perspective, so perhaps their pricing policy reflects that. But I have to look into it (they actually had some problems with their publisher as well from what I read - good for the devs that it's a limited liability kind of company... boy oh boy).

 

[V_K]

From what I see on the screenshots, the quality you're aiming for is quite a bit higher than RoA HD though. Or at least I hope so.

 

[RatTower]

Don't worry, I'm merely talking from a business perspective with regards to RoA.
I'm mentioning them, cause they are pretty much the only company around here that does "something" comparable. Indepdendent from the actual quality they put out in the end.
So I'm looking towards them with regards to legal structure, potential organizational issues they had, funding options they may have taken advantage of, etc. - because what they have done, might be relevant to me as well.

There is actually one other company around here making an RPG, which is GrapeOcean Technologies - the guys behind Black Geyser. At least they are the only other ones I know of.
However, their legal situation is a little trickier, since they have two offices: One in Vienna, the other one I believe in Budapest, Hungary.
Which probably has to do with the 9% corporate tax rate. But that's just me guessing.

 

[V_K]

Don't worry, I'm merely talking from a business perspective with regards to RoA.
I'm mentioning them, cause they are pretty much the only company around here that does "something" comparable. Indepdendent from the actual quality they put out in the end.

I just meant that higher quality assets mean higher costs, which makes your pricing equation rather different irrespective of organizational structure.

 

[RatTower]

Digging myself through all the issues I wrote down.
One was having an offensive spell for the alpha area.



Might put that somewhere else in the final game though. It's a bit too powerful and does splash damage as well (which nearly killed me in the gif).
I also added a lot of sound effects and worked over status effects (again). Fixed quite a few bugs too.
It's pretty much playable at this point. I still need to fix a few issues with the AI, add a proper options menu and re-activate stealth, but the rest should be clean-up work.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Only shit that jump. Was that from a buff or skill/stat?

Also if you don't mind me asking. how much time of content would you say that demo area has, and around how much does it respresent of the final game's length?

 

[HoboForEternity]

fabulously optimistic this will succeed where underworld ascendant failed

 

[hello friend]

It already looks a million time better than underworld ascendant ever did

 

[Machocruz]

RatTower

Have you seen the first person mod for Sekiro? It conclusively shows how From Software's level design approach, not to mention their brand of atmosphere/mood, has been consistent from King's Field on through their other first person ARPGs to present day From ARPGs. With the mod, Sekiro smacks of feudal Japanese KF.

 

[RatTower]

Only shit that jump. Was that from a buff or skill/stat?

Also if you don't mind me asking. how much time of content would you say that demo area has, and around how much does it respresent of the final game's length?

The jump is from a buff, yes. It's actually a bad idea to have it activated without featherfall or stomp (the latter transfers all fall damage to enemies around you).
The small circles on the left side of the screen are showing current buffs - Jump is wearing off; the other thing is Haste.

I still have a couple spells on my list. First and foremost Douse and Ignite - I'll probably add those when I work over stealth again.

RatTower

Have you seen the first person mod for Sekiro? It conclusively shows how From Software's level design approach, not to mention their brand of atmosphere/mood, has been consistent from King's Field on through their other first person ARPGs to present day From ARPGs. With the mod, Sekiro smacks of feudal Japanese KF.

I haven't had the chance to play Sekiro yet, but the same mod existed for Dark Souls.

Edit:
DJOGamer PT
Concerning time of content:
The current alpha zone covers about half an area. There are five areas planned (two of which are in an advanced state of development). Time to clear depends on the player. Obviously I can rush through it pretty quickly (like 20 minutes), but then I take all the shortcuts and know what to look for. When I "naively" try out all the features it naturally takes me substantially longer. I could easily increase the amount of content with more secrets and by expanding small features like baking but that's a secondary issue right now (though I do want to find a use for that rolling pin i created a long time ago). Also enemy placement - which still needs some tweaking - plays a big role. Much like System Shock, death sends you back to the last save point - there is also some reduced respawn (so a weakened version of what Dark Souls does - or more precisely, exactly what KF does).

All in all I'm aiming for something like KF4 in terms of raw playtime (~25 hours) but with secrets and mini-quests and searching and puzzling and baking and digging and dialogue and character management and whatnot it might end up in the realms of UU/Arx (~30 hours).

 

[Invictus]

What kind of system requirements can we expect?

 

[RatTower]

It runs on a four year old mid-tier laptop.
So the average desktop PC should have no problems with it I guess.

 

[Jack Dandy]

Infinitron give the man his Developer tag!

EDIT: Well, so he'll have an avatar and a name unlike the rest of us plebs.

 

[baud]

 

[HarveyBirdman]

That enemy looked wayyyy too slow. It's like he was moving through a vat of honey, whereas the player character was greased lightning.

Speaking of which...
I (re-)added status effects to movement speed.

...

At the moment speed potions stack. And I'm inclined to leave that in. The "Haste" spell will work differently though.
The same effect can of course be used in the opposite direction.
Slimes for example can slow you down now.

Also I'm currently trying to figure out how to properly weave weapon attributes into attack speed (which would make maces slower than swords, which are slower than daggers but daggers are obviously weaker etc).
I might consider speed potions there as well, but it will probably be capped at some point.

I'm digging the humor, but am still not sure what to make of the combat.

To me, this -->

... looks pretty much just like the video I originally commented on.
i.e. the player is super fast and powerful, while enemies are super slow and can't even touch you. Also, the enemies appear to have very limited range of motion in their attacks.

I'm bringing this up because I'm totally sold on the concept of your game, and am therefore holding your feet to the fire. I wouldn't bother if I didn't think Monomyth looks cool.

Based on those two videos, the combat looks easier than Oblivion.
So my questions are: (1) what is your general philosophy on combat for Monomyth, (2) how does the combat we've seen so far fit into that philosophy, and (3) how far along are you in tweaking combat?