Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

[J1M]

If cheating is a problem, fix the exploits.

If the same person keeps finding exploits, hire him.

If the same person keeps using exploits created by others, flag his account so he only joins matches with other cheaters.

 

[Sentinel]

Ah yes, that totally solves the problem of alternate accounts.
And the idea of rewarding cheat makers by giving them all jobs? Sublime. Not only is it completely sustainable, but also behaviour you want to promote.

 

[Citizen]

Ah yes, that totally solves the problem of alternate accounts.
And the idea of rewarding cheat makers by giving them all jobs? Sublime. Not only is it completely sustainable, but also behaviour you want to promote.

If you are dealing with dumb schoolkidz, who just use cheats made by others, you ban them and fix the exploits they used = problem solved
If there's a kid that comes up with new exploits faster then you fix them (and faster then your test team discovers them), yeah, fucking hire him and replace your test team

 

[Perkel]

I want more cheaters. The more cheaters there are the less people will play multiplayer games and the more focus will be on single player games.

Fuck multiplayer games. (co-op games are ok though)

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

 

[abija]

Wtf are you talking about with "fix the exploits" in the case of aimbots?

 

[Perkel]

Wtf are you talking about with "fix the exploits" in the case of aimbots?

aimbots only exist because most of code in local not server side.

 

[Reinhardt]

If cheating is a problem, fix the exploits.

If the same person keeps finding exploits, hire him.

If the same person keeps using exploits created by others, flag his account so he only joins matches with other cheaters.

Nah, sounds like work.

 

[abija]

aimbots only exist because most of code in local not server side.

Everything required for aimbots (final render and input) have to be on the client. How the actual fuck do you expect to fix it server side?

 

[Perkel]

Hmmm idk, i guess making input resolve server side would do the trick. But it would add latency.

 

[Tacgnol]

And the idea of rewarding cheat makers by giving them all jobs? Sublime. Not only is it completely sustainable, but also behaviour you want to promote.

Worked well for Denuvo with hiring ex-crackers, at least in the beginning.

 

[abija]

Hmmm idk, i guess making input resolve server side would do the trick.

Do you try to understand what you say/post from time to time at least?

 

[Perkel]

Hmmm idk, i guess making input resolve server side would do the trick.

Do you try to understand what you say/post from time to time at least?

Do you understand what "idk" stands for ?

But yeah picture scripts would be hard to deal with. I am guessing AI deep learning can fix those as it can basically notice if someone is playing differently than what human player could play.

 

[Sentinel]

Ah yes, that totally solves the problem of alternate accounts.
And the idea of rewarding cheat makers by giving them all jobs? Sublime. Not only is it completely sustainable, but also behaviour you want to promote.

If you are dealing with dumb schoolkidz, who just use cheats made by others, you ban them and fix the exploits they used = problem solved
If there's a kid that comes up with new exploits faster then you fix them (and faster then your test team discovers them), yeah, fucking hire him and replace your test team

You aren't fixing the supply side of the problem. You think you're the first person to think of and implement these revolutionary ideas in 20 years of widespread online games? Jesus christ dude use your fucking brain.
I even posted a video where you have a fucking Valve employee addressing all of these issues. You're not Einstein. Valve has thought of everything you'll ever think of and more. Additionally, they've implemented all of it and know it isn't effective.

 

[Drakron]

Hmmm idk, i guess making input resolve server side would do the trick.

Do you try to understand what you say/post from time to time at least?

Do you understand what "idk" stands for ?

But yeah picture scripts would be hard to deal with. I am guessing AI deep learning can fix those as it can basically notice if someone is playing differently than what human player could play.

It reminds me of Captcha that got so insane that to prove you were human that solving it was more proving you were a script since no fucking way people could recognize that as letters.
In a way its amusing things are getting to the point where people have to prove they are not cheating, every time they try to "up" the game with anti-cheating all they do is making scripts more advanced because the program cannot tell were exactly how commands were input, only they were ... you could try to make it so things that are simply impossible for humans to do (like perfect hit-scan shoots for example) or that should be outside the design (such as BDO speed-hacks) would be recognizable as cheating but this leads to a question, if you are making a game and making it so people dont automate it then ... what game is that? a boring repetitive game people rather not play and will automate instead?

And since its nearly 2020 were Games as Live Services are common ... we know the answer to that question. Not saying there will never competitive games were people wont cheat but ... its reaching the point were they are demanding blood and urine samples of all players before the game even starts.

 

[JarlFrank]

Fuck multiplayer games. (co-op games are ok though)

Co-op is far, far worse than competitive multiplayer.

I don't want to rely on other retards when I play a game in multi. I want to fight against other retards. Co-op vs AI is shit and not fun.

 

[Reinhardt]

Codex needs co-op tb blobber with 8+ characters in party.

 

[J_C]

Fuck multiplayer games. (co-op games are ok though)

Co-op is far, far worse than competitive multiplayer.

I don't want to rely on other retards when I play a game in multi. I want to fight against other retards. Co-op vs AI is shit and not fun.

Solution: find some friends who are not retards and play co-op with them. I can't even imagine why would anyone play co-op with random strangers.

 

[Reinhardt]

Fuck multiplayer games. (co-op games are ok though)

Co-op is far, far worse than competitive multiplayer.

I don't want to rely on other retards when I play a game in multi. I want to fight against other retards. Co-op vs AI is shit and not fun.

Solution: find some friends who are not retards and play co-op with them. I can't even imagine why would anyone play co-op with random strangers.

I tried once to play icewind dale 2 with 3 friends. It was one of the most retarded things i did in my life.

 

[JarlFrank]

Fuck multiplayer games. (co-op games are ok though)

Co-op is far, far worse than competitive multiplayer.

I don't want to rely on other retards when I play a game in multi. I want to fight against other retards. Co-op vs AI is shit and not fun.

Solution: find some friends who are not retards and play co-op with them. I can't even imagine why would anyone play co-op with random strangers.

I prefer playing PvP with friends, it's more fun than co-op vs AI.

Or co-op vs other players in team PvP.

 

[Perkel]

I prefer playing PvP with friends, it's more fun than co-op vs AI.
Or co-op vs other players in team PvP.

I think i should be more clear. Multiplayer with friends not some randos from net.
Whatever you play against or with, playing with randos is total crap.

 

[JarlFrank]

Eh, I had some fun playing on decent RO2 servers and playing AoE2 1v1 vs randos.

 

[Infinitron]

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/devolver-boss-defends-steam-amid-epic-store-and-ex/1100-6470544/

Devolver Boss Defends Steam Amid Epic Store And Exclusivity Controversy
"Competition is going to come along at some point."

One of the most talked-about developments in gaming over the past year has been Fortnite developer Epic establishing a new digital store and its pursuit of exclusives--of which there have been many. In addition to paying for exclusives, Epic's store gives creators 88 percent of revenue compared to 70 percent on Steam and others. Publisher Ubisoft no longer releases new titles on Steam because they believe the 70/30 revenue split is "unreasonable."

Now, one of the founders of boutique game publisher Devolver Digital (Hotline Miami, Genital Jousting, Fall Guys) has spoken up to defend Steam and call for a "reset" of the wider conversation that can at times paint Steam as the bad guy.

"I feel like this conversation needs to be reset," Graeme Struthers told GameSpot at PAX Aus. "The conversation never really took place properly in my opinion."

Struthers said the launch of Steam more than a decade ago changed the landscape of PC gaming. Steam was an integral part of the success of Devolver and other studios, he said.

One part of what made Steam appealing then and continues to now is that developers are paid every month, which is not the case with every store.

"Every month we were getting paid, and you were being paid accurately," he said. "We've all got our horror stories about doing audits on our publishers and finding huge discrepancies about what was being reported in sales. Here's Steam--every month, accurate, straightforward, and transparent."

Regarding the revenue share model, Struthers pointed out that Steam's 30 percent cut was a more generous offering than others at the time. The payment scheme that Steam offered allowed publishers to offer more favorable terms to developers, Struthers said.

"To come out of a model [before Steam] where we were, as a games publisher, maybe making 25 percent, and that's if you were successful. To be in a 70/30 relationship, it was transformative in every sense," he said. "And that led to realignment with relationships with developers. If there is more money and it's more frequent, you can have better terms with developers."

With the launch of competing game stores--including Epic's--developers have more options, and this competition is good overall for the industry, Struthers said. At the same time, Struthers stressed that comparing Steam to Epic directly is not fair or helpful.

Steam has been around for more than a decade; it's a refined platform with important toolsets and features for developers and consumers alike that make for a better overall experience, Struthers said.

"Competition is going to come along at some point. Epic have taken a view that their way of bringing content to their platform is far more generous revenue share and obviously they've been pushing exclusives--that's great," he explained. "And it's giving developers and publishers a choice. You can't compare the two things however as like for like. Steam has invested I don't know how many hundreds of millions of dollars in their platform; Epic have yet to do that. I'm not saying they won't, and hopefully they will. In terms of the features and in terms of the toolsets for developers, there's a ways to go. But competition is good."

Finally, Struthers said all the drama and controversy over Epic paying for exclusives "doesn't really hold up" because exclusivity has been a part of gaming since the beginning.

"The rise about developers and publishers going to Epic and exclusivity, it doesn't really hold up," he said. "I play games on PlayStation, Xbox, and Switch, and Devolver--we've done console exclusives with Sony, with Microsoft--I think it's good, but I think we have to respect Steam for what they've done. Without them, none of this would have been a conversation in the first place."

In addition to paying developers a larger share of revenue, Epic gives studios money up front to convince them to release games exclusively on the Epic Store. Games like The Division 2, Metro Exodus, and Borderlands 3 are all currently exclusive to the Epic Games Store (apart from publisher-specific stores), though they will also release on other PC stores at a later date. The next big exclusive for Epic is The Outer Worlds from developer Obsidian; it launches on October 25.

 

[Biscotti]

I was with him until the part where he mentions exclusivity and then uses consoles as an example. Gee, what could've possibly been the outlier here before EGS came along? One has to wonder.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

"More than a decade ago", "more than a decade ago"... Steam's been around for 16 years, for fuck's sake. Is that too hard to grasp?

The thing I take away from that article is that now that game dev/publishers finally have a stable (but monopolized) platform to release PC games from, they've gotten greedier than ever and want moar.