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KickStarter Solasta Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Alex

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That is not the point. Take 2e or 1e. You have combat spells like fireball that caused straight damage (and actually filled up its volume, which made burning yourself and the party a lot easier, but also allowed great tactical use). You had spells like power word, something, which didn't have a saving throw but worked based on remaining hp, creating an interesting tactical use. And you had save or die spells that bypassed hp completely. This allowed different approaches for different kinds of enemies. If everything is based on hp, you lose this richness of approach.
 

Cryomancer

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7d8+30! you have idea how much hp monster have? 5e have low low numbers.

Cone of cold deals 8d8 damage. Reducing the number inflation is a good 5e thing(adult black dragon with 195 hp https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/adult-black-dragon ), but removing this deadly spells/traps/items is a bad thing.

Note that 2e had relative low hp for monsters and PCs(hp growth drops a lot after lv 10) and there are a lot of OHK spells on 2e. Some modules like Tomb of Horrors rely on this type of spells/traps to create an true horror atmosphere...
 
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Elex

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That is not the point. Take 2e or 1e. You have combat spells like fireball that caused straight damage (and actually filled up its volume, which made burning yourself and the party a lot easier, but also allowed great tactical use). You had spells like power word, something, which didn't have a saving throw but worked based on remaining hp, creating an interesting tactical use. And you had save or die spells that bypassed hp completely. This allowed different approaches for different kinds of enemies. If everything is based on hp, you lose this richness of approach.
power words exist in 5e, power world kill: kill a target at 100 or lower hp no save. (it’s not 100 damage its: you die)
 
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Elex

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7d8+30! you have idea how much hp monster have? 5e have low low numbers.

Cone of cold deals 8d8 damage. Reducing the number inflation is a good 5e thing(adult black dragon with 195 hp https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/adult-black-dragon ), but removing this deadly spells/traps/items is a bad thing.

Note that 2e had relative low hp for monsters and PCs(hp growth drops a lot after lv 10) and there are a lot of OHK spells on 2e. Some modules like Tomb of Horrors rely on this type of spells/traps to create an true horror atmosphere...
deadly spell and traps exist in the ruleset, tomb of horrors have a 5e version.
what is changed is how people play D&D and how people master the game.

for example, a character at 0 HP need to fail 3 death save, one melee attack at 0 HP count as 2 failed save.

so a DM that don’t target character at 0 and a DM that focus character at zero create 2 totally different experience.
 

Reinhardt

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People keep blabbering about magic and different playstyles it unlocks but all i see in this thread is regular pew-pewers.
2FFjY.png
 

Cryomancer

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deadly spell and traps exist in the ruleset, tomb of horrors have a 5e version.
what is changed is how people play D&D and how people master the game.

for example, a character at 0 HP need to fail 3 death save, one melee attack at 0 HP count as 2 failed save.

Face a lot of traps and a demilich in 2e was much more terrifying than on 5e. That is my point. If you don't like OHK spells/traps, you could say that they doesn't exist in your world as a DM, Can say that unless you are a high rank evil wizard, you can't find a scroll, that is a state secret. but the removal of the base game made the adaptations of 2e/3.5 modules to 5e modules very dumbed down. If you are invading Strahd a ravenloft campaign, he will use nasty traps against you. He will obviously use a skeleton army while your party is under Cloudkill spell/trap(much more deadly on 2e/3.5e). Detect traps on 2e/3.5e merely buffs your insight and search. On 5e, automatically reveals tarps ( https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Find Traps#content ), so if a demilich can't OHKill you, can't trap your soul in a gem in one hit and you can always detect his trap trap, a demilich becomes an much more weaker fo, to face in combat and find the phylactery

People keep blabbering about magic and different playstyles it unlocks but all i see in this thread is regular pew-pewers.

Yes, because how dare you to like use magic in a high magic setting? Everyone knows that everyone must be forced to use melee weapons in every game, doesn't matter if is a sci-fi game or a high fantasy game. Solasta needs to be like Final FAntasy and forces you to be a human fighter androgynous teenager with a oversized sword. /sarcasm
 
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Myzzrym

Tactical Adventures
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Hey there folks I'm back, I slept my 4 weeks worth of Kickstarter in the last few days. Alright, let's go for another round of Q&A:

Any chance of seeing Dragonborn? Or an more exotic race like "dhampir"?

So one thing we want to do for sure in the long run is to have all the options from the SRD 5.1 - which includes Dragonborns. For more exotic races I can't really say for now, because it's too far off (we'll already have plenty of things to do with all the official races & classes we haven't implemented yet) - that being said remember that there might be some content that is trademarked by WotC and that we won't be able to use (for instance, I'm pretty sure Goliath and Warforged can't be used).

Also ending is decided at end or in beggining or middle? giving incentive to replay game and not load last save to see all endings.

Although nothing is clearly decided yet and we do want to add some differences between playthroughs (even in the main campaign), there likely won't be massively different endings. Actually, that's a good topic to discuss - what's the issue behind making different paths?

Let's imagine you have a game with a main branch A, which branches out at some point into B1, B2, B3 - each with their own levels and custom ending. That's pretty cool! Depending on what you did in Branch A, you potentially get a totally different experience from your friends. And can also play the game again to see the other levels & endings. Now from a Production perspective, it becomes a lot more complicated - because you actually have to make those B1, B2, B3 levels and endings of course. Let's imagine the B1 path takes you a good... 5h chunk to finish. Because it's more than just one room + one fight + the custom ending. And let's imagine than B2 and B3 are similar in length. Now let's imagine A is around 20h in length.

If we stay with that branching idea, your main game takes around 25h to complete. But if, instead of that, you do one single branch? You suddenly get 35h - or more likely even more, because you don't have to think about all the implications of the different B1, B2 and B3 branches - where maybe in B2 the city is completely destroyed, and you would need to make specific backgrounds and props for that, or maybe in B1 a new character is revealed so you'd need to write / record extra dialog lines.

So instead of A + B1 or B2 or B3, you get A + B. You suddenly get a game that's probably 40h+ instead of 25h, and with a much better quality in B because you can focus on a single storyline. On top of that, most of your players won't ever replay the game - so they might review your game as "being too short" for their taste because they only saw B1 and not B2 and B3. And what if B1 is the weakest of the 3 endings too? They might just say the ending is garbage.

Which is not to say a branching game is bad - hell I love branching games, I love to see alternate routes depending on my decisions (and not just "oh this guy doesn't talk to you because did X before"). But this is a luxury that's better left to AAA games with large teams of writers and level designers, who can afford to do so without putting the quality of the game at risk.

Hope that's clear enough an answer for you guys^^

So apparently DU has sobered up and now we're doing a fundraiser: https://rpgcodex.net/campaigns.php?id=25

Hell yea.

Solasta solasta it rhymes with pasta

I do believe that is true.

I wanted to pre-order but after seeing the gameplay and reading about the game I've resigned. Besides beatiful graphics and turn based combat it doesn't have that much to offer by the looks of it. The setting is common, has no uniqueness, the locations consist mostly of dungeons (although there will be exterrior locations and dungeons will vary) and there are way too many cinematics for my taste even though it's not that long ("longer than 15 h of gameplay", so maybe 30 h at most, possibly less and movies will take at least an hour judging by the gameplay I've seen).

The silver lining here is that they don't need additional money so if the game will turn out to be good and more than a dungeon crawler (which according to devs it isn't and I have no reason to not believe them) I'll most likely buy it.

That's actually an excellent state of mind. If you don't know as to whether you'd enjoy the game or not, wait for the reviews at release before making your choice!
 

Elex

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deadly spell and traps exist in the ruleset, tomb of horrors have a 5e version.
what is changed is how people play D&D and how people master the game.

for example, a character at 0 HP need to fail 3 death save, one melee attack at 0 HP count as 2 failed save.

Face a lot of traps and a demilich in 2e was much more terrifying than on 5e. That is my point. If you don't like OHK spells/traps, you could say that they doesn't exist in your world as a DM, Can say that unless you are a high rank evil wizard, you can't find a scroll, that is a state secret. but the removal of the base game made the adaptations of 2e/3.5 modules to 5e modules very dumbed down. If you are invading Strahd a ravenloft campaign, he will use nasty traps against you. He will obviously use a skeleton army while your party is under Cloudkill spell/trap(much more deadly on 2e/3.5e). Detect traps on 2e/3.5e merely buffs your insight and search. On 5e, automatically reveals tarps ( https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Find Traps#content ), so if a demilich can't OHKill you, can't trap your soul in a gem in one hit and you can always detect his trap trap, a demilich becomes an much more weaker fo, to face in combat and find the phylactery

/sarcasm
“This spell merely reveals that a trap is present. You don't learn the location of each trap, but you do learn the general Nature of the danger posed by a trap you sense.”
wow soo useful!!!!!!

cleric:“i cast find trap!”
DM:”yep that area is trapped, the traps will kill you”

a demilich in 5e even more deadly than before for example: “The demilich emits a bloodcurdling howl. Each creature within 30 feet of the demilich that can hear the howl must succeed on a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or drop to 0 hit points. On a successful save, the creature is frightened until the end of its next turn.”

and have lair action like this one “The demilich targets any number of creatures it can see within 30 feet of it. No target can regain hit points until initiative count 20 on the next round.”
 
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Reinhardt

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Messages
29,236
Yes, because how dare you to like use magic in a high magic setting? Everyone knows that everyone must be forced to use melee weapons in every game, doesn't matter if is a sci-fi game or a high fantasy game. Solasta needs to be like Final FAntasy and forces you to be a human fighter androgynous teenager with a oversized sword. /sarcasm
YES! ALL MAGIC IS PEW-PEW! AND DRAGONS! I WANT TO SUMMON DRAGONS AT LEAST 5 TIMES EACH REST!
 

Cryomancer

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No Reinhardt, the spell in question is a EPIC spell that even epic chars can only use one time per rest on NWN1.

Same with Lichdoom and other stuff in other games. Become a Lich on M&M VIII(easiest of the series) requires dungeon crawling in areas with deadly enemies very resistent to dark magic. Is not like DDO, where literally a lv 4 Wizard(Pale Master) can become a Lich. That is ridiculous.

That said, if Warlock comes, my first warlock will be a HEXBLADE warlock. Because is the most unique type of WLK and i wanna see how it will works. For those who doesn't know, hexblade warlock forges a pact, not with a powerful outsider and become a apprentice of a outsider, they make a pact with a weapon and his relationship is more akin to symbiote/Venon in Spider Man universe. If ranges of weapons rules are implemented in Solasta, i will probably have a halberd pact warlock. That sounds extremely interesting.
 

Ysaye

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My understanding was that this isn't going to be a high magic setting? And no warlocks? And level capped at 10 so no epic spells? And custom subclasses? So how is all this discussion relevant?

At this stage, my understanding is that the magic classes and subclasses are:

1. Wizard - 3 subclasses, probably reading between the lines a lore master and a combat mage / arcanist and something else
2. Cleric - 3 subclasses, one is a battle cleric
3. Fighter with Spellblade subclass, expect it to work like Eldritch Knight
4. Paladin - 3 subclasses, can cast up to Lvl 2 cleric spells
5. Ranger - 3 subclasses, can cast up to Lvl 2 cleric spells, one of the subclasses (Marksman) is similar to the arcane archer subclass.
And 6. Sorcerer as DLC to come after the game is released.

There maybe a Rogue subclass with some spells too.
 

SophosTheWise

Cipher
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Feb 19, 2013
Messages
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Tried the demo today, got wrecked during the spider escape. All in all a fun experience, and I really like their approach to verticality. Things that have griped me:

- party dialogue is corny and snarky (could be remedied by selecting different character traits, maybe?)
- camera is a mess (heard they're working on it
- environmental storytelling so far is bland

Despite these flawes and my getting wrecked, I had quite a bit of fun, especially seeing as this is pre-alpha
 

Whisper

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So one thing we want to do for sure in the long run is to have all the options from the SRD 5.1 - which includes Dragonborns. For more exotic races I can't really say for now, because it's too far off (we'll already have plenty of things to do with all the official races & classes we haven't implemented yet) - that being said remember that there might be some content that is trademarked by WotC and that we won't be able to use (for instance, I'm pretty sure Goliath and Warforged can't be used).



Although nothing is clearly decided yet and we do want to add some differences between playthroughs (even in the main campaign), there likely won't be massively different endings. Actually, that's a good topic to discuss - what's the issue behind making different paths?

Let's imagine you have a game with a main branch A, which branches out at some point into B1, B2, B3 - each with their own levels and custom ending. That's pretty cool! Depending on what you did in Branch A, you potentially get a totally different experience from your friends. And can also play the game again to see the other levels & endings. Now from a Production perspective, it becomes a lot more complicated - because you actually have to make those B1, B2, B3 levels and endings of course. Let's imagine the B1 path takes you a good... 5h chunk to finish. Because it's more than just one room + one fight + the custom ending. And let's imagine than B2 and B3 are similar in length. Now let's imagine A is around 20h in length.

If we stay with that branching idea, your main game takes around 25h to complete. But if, instead of that, you do one single branch? You suddenly get 35h - or more likely even more, because you don't have to think about all the implications of the different B1, B2 and B3 branches - where maybe in B2 the city is completely destroyed, and you would need to make specific backgrounds and props for that, or maybe in B1 a new character is revealed so you'd need to write / record extra dialog lines.

So instead of A + B1 or B2 or B3, you get A + B. You suddenly get a game that's probably 40h+ instead of 25h, and with a much better quality in B because you can focus on a single storyline. On top of that, most of your players won't ever replay the game - so they might review your game as "being too short" for their taste because they only saw B1 and not B2 and B3. And what if B1 is the weakest of the 3 endings too? They might just say the ending is garbage.

Which is not to say a branching game is bad - hell I love branching games, I love to see alternate routes depending on my decisions (and not just "oh this guy doesn't talk to you because did X before"). But this is a luxury that's better left to AAA games with large teams of writers and level designers, who can afford to do so without putting the quality of the game at risk.

Hope that's clear enough an answer for you guys^^

I agree.

But at least make ability to choose difficulty options. So you can play on Hard and then on hardest difficulty (noone, except casuals and children play on normal, not to mention easy difficulty - yes, they bring money but they are bad for industry, they destroy sence of achievement).
 

Whisper

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Also confused why people call this demo "pre-alfa". It is very polished and if used in complete game it would make wonderful dungeon exploration. In no way this is "pre-alfa', alfa or even beta.
 

V_K

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Let's imagine you have a game with a main branch A, which branches out at some point into B1, B2, B3 - each with their own levels
But does each branch really have to have its own levels? It could be the same level, but with different paths open or closed depending on your actions. Like, in B1 you could be fighting both the drown and the dragon, in B2 the drow would be friendly and help you with the dragon, while in B3 they just wouldn't be there. And a completely different decision could give you the key to a secret passage that would allow you to sneak past the drow and backstab the dragon.
 

Cryomancer

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My understanding was that this isn't going to be a high magic setting? And no warlocks?

They said on reddit that is due lore reasons(source : https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comm...l_adventures_developers_of/f1ihnai/?context=3 ). I an not sure, but i heard that the unique OGL pact for warlock is the Fiend(not sure) and having an fiendish servant aside from a lawful good succubus would't make any sense. That said, nothing prevent then from homebrewing a patron more lore friendly. And remember, they are more akin to apprentices to their patrons, not to clerics. And having a elemental patron or a homebrew pact weapon, if warlocks can make a pact with a specific Solastan weapon or a specific solastan "archelemental" that doesn't exist on D&D, i believe that will not be a copyright infringement(not sure)

As for level cap = 10, ToEE had lv cap = 10 and was amazing. Most faithful 3.5e adaptation.
pool of radiance 2: ruins of myth drannor had only one arcane caster class(sorcerer) and lv cap = 16
 

Myzzrym

Tactical Adventures
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But at least make ability to choose difficulty options. So you can play on Hard and then on hardest difficulty (noone, except casuals and children play on normal, not to mention easy difficulty - yes, they bring money but they are bad for industry, they destroy sence of achievement).

Difficulty options are planned. We know there are people who are discouraged when things get too tough while others lose interest if it's not challenging enough, and we want both side to be able to enjoy the game.

Also confused why people call this demo "pre-alfa". It is very polished and if used in complete game it would make wonderful dungeon exploration. In no way this is "pre-alfa', alfa or even beta.

Game Production lesson time! So when you work on a game there are usually a few steps before release: Conception, Pre-Production, Alpha, Beta, Polish. Exceptions can apply of course, so don't be surprised if some projects don't necessarily follow the same structure or have a few extras.

Conception is usually done in small committee or alone. This is basically when you're shaping the game in your mind, trying to figure out what you want it to be, why people would like it, all these questions. You're also going to be working on a prototype to show some people around - friends for feedback, investors for money, potential employees to form a team...

Then you get to Pre-Production, which is hopefully when you go over your game plan with your Producer / Project Manager (or sit down on your own if you're taking the role yourself) to chart everything out. How much time it's going to take. How much money you will need. How many people are required. And then realize that you wanted something way too big, so start trimming the fat to make sure you don't end up with a half-finished game that was too ambitious. This is often one of the most undervalued and underestimated step, because it's not the fun part of game development - you aren't MAKING the game, you're PLANNING how to make it. And a lot of less experienced developers who may not have access to or resources to hire a good Project Manager will end up with a very shaky plan, which can end up with the project never being completed. On a personal note, I believe that a lot of Kickstarter games that never launch end up living this tragedy since they are led by passionate creators, who might be extremely talented at making games but not necessarily have the same skills when it comes to estimations, budgets, schedules and the like. It's also extremely hard to say no to features that you personally think are NECESSARY for the game if you're trying to shoulder both Producer AND Creative Director roles, since you have all the power to yourself and no one to say "Wait, stop there's just too much you want to do".

During Pre-Production you also start working on some features / levels to better estimate how long the rest is going to take. You make a few characters to see how long a character takes you to make, a chair to see how long a simple prop takes, a building to see how long... You get the gist. With these samples and previous experience you had on other projects you worked on, it becomes easier to make a solid plan. This is another reason why veteran teams are strong, not only because they're good at what they do and may do it faster / better, but because everyone can pitch in their experience to increase accuracy and decrease risks in the planning. THIS IS BASICALLY WHERE THIS DEMO WAS DONE. BEFORE ALPHA, HENCE THE PRE-ALPHA TAG. We're doing a test run of a stand-alone Kickstarter level with the Ruins of Telema as a Vertical Slice, meaning we polish what we can to see what the final product may look like (as well as how much time it takes to polish something) - with a some caveats due to time, for instance monster variety, facial animations and camera controls.

Then, after that you get to Alpha when you start putting the game together. You start adding features, working on the important stuff that needs to be tackled first so that you don't get stuck later waiting for it (for example you need the ability to climb before your Level Designers start working on a level where you need to scale up a cliff...), so on and so forth.

Then comes the Beta, where TECHNICALLY SPEAKING you finished adding all the features already (in truth there's always a few that you sneak in during beta) and you're only adding "data" (vs code) and polishing. That might be replacing placeholders that you didn't have the time to make during Alpha because they were not the priority, like mugs for the tavern tables or that little broom sitting in a corner next to the fireplace. That might be doing a few retakes because you realize that some things just don't work (make a smaller table because playtesters all complained that there wasn't enough space to navigate during a bar fight). You also start debugging quite a lot during that time.

And then at the end comes the Polish, where like the name implies you go through the game with a comb and hopefully fix the last few bugs and hiccups. Oh that texture is a little ugly, let's do a bit of work on it. Here the light looks a bit too bright for a fireplace, let's tweak the settings. That fight is a bit too hard, let's remove a mob.

Again these are very generic descriptions of each step, so do not take it as 100% accurate. A lot will depend on the team, the project and the business plan.

But does each branch really have to have its own levels? It could be the same level, but with different paths open or closed depending on your actions. Like, in B1 you could be fighting both the drown and the dragon, in B2 the drow would be friendly and help you with the dragon, while in B3 they just wouldn't be there. And a completely different decision could give you the key to a secret passage that would allow you to sneak past the drow and backstab the dragon.

Ah let's be clear, when I say branch I imagine something massively different. I wouldn't call different paths in the same level B1, B2 or B3 in this example - it would all be part of B as minor variations.

They said on reddit that is due lore reasons(source : https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comm...l_adventures_developers_of/f1ihnai/?context=3 ). I an not sure, but i heard that the unique OGL pact for warlock is the Fiend(not sure) and having an fiendish servant aside from a lawful good succubus would't make any sense. That said, nothing prevent then from homebrewing a patron more lore friendly. And remember, they are more akin to apprentices to their patrons, not to clerics. And having a elemental patron or a homebrew pact weapon, if warlocks can make a pact with a specific Solastan weapon or a specific solastan "archelemental" that doesn't exist on D&D, i believe that will not be a copyright infringement(not sure)

Little clarification, in this post I said we prioritize Sorcerer over Warlock for Lore reasons. I am not saying that Warlock aren't going to be added to Solasta for Lore reasons, just that they may appear... later... for reasons... :)
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tacticaladventures/solasta-crown-of-the-magister/posts/2653219

Solasta Demo is leaving Steam October 18th at 7 am PDT / 10 am EDT / 4 pm CEST

Hello there everyone,

Every good thing comes to an end. On Friday October 18th at 7 am PDT / 10 am EDT / 4 pm CEST, Solasta: Crown of the Magister's Pre-Alpha Demo will be leaving our Steam Page for good. If you haven't played it already, don't wait! The Ruins of Telema will finally close their doors to would-be adventurers looking for thrills and treasures soon.



The team will be switching focus to working on the final game to deliver you an entrée worthy of the appetiser that was the Demo! And don't worry, we aren't going to leave you hanging - we're still going to be posting news regularly.

Cheers!
 

Whisper

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In last 2-3 year old games only Pathfinder Kingmaker (in like 6-7 dungeons) and Tower of time had good exploration.
Expecting good exploration from Solasta.
 

Darkzone

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Dorateen

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I'd say the demo is not going to be representative of the final game, especially with all the work they have to do with the camera, and further refinement of the systems. The demo served its purpose in getting people excited for Solasta and succeed in funding. At this point, however, it would not reflect the game as it reaches more and more of a polished state.
 

Darkzone

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I'd say the demo is not going to be representative of the final game, especially with all the work they have to do with the camera, and further refinement of the systems. The demo served its purpose in getting people excited for Solasta and succeed in funding. At this point, however, it would not reflect the game as it reaches more and more of a polished state.
So and what should be the problem in updating the game mechanics and systems in the Demo that are representative of the final product or uploading a different demo build in Steam?
The camera in UE4 is less than 2 man hours of work. A demo build in UE4 could be easy managed by building only certain levels or perhaps a different GameInstance.
 

santino27

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Or they can focus on the game, like they said, and potentially release another demo when all of those details are nailed down and it comes a lot closer to launch time. Splitting focus in development or having to backport changes costs productivity.
 

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