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Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
among strangers on the internet
Is there a group one could possibly care less about?
HALFLIGHT: "haha"
EMPATHY: ^ Being exposed to the erosion of the value of human life and dignity in everyday internet communication.
 

AwesomeButton

Proud owner of BG 3: Day of Swen's Tentacle
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Just came accross this, seems fitting, message and style:

73052036_2412752308963954_3441234338513944576_n.jpg
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
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Bulgaria
To he honest i am disappointed in the muscle build. I only got to slap cuno and beat the shit out of the nigger,no other physical encounters and not enough intimidations.
 

Egosphere

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
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Hibernia
The funniest thing is, I ended up in Tribunal unarmed with a 1Phys weakling character with no weapon skills and wearing a suit. And yet I had exact same result as Egosphere who spent his entire playthrough making a master-jedi gunslinger with full armor prepared entirely for that very encounter. Kim and me also both magically survived despite facing gang of military special forces,

Yeah, that one part really shattered the promise of unprecedented freedom of choice in my eyes. What makes it worse is that despite having 2 bullets in the pepper-box, after you go down you have to pass an authority check to save Kim. Drunk Korty can shoot me from across the plaza after taking a bullet to the face, but I can't kill the merc woman standing 3 feet away from me myself?
 

Haba

Harbinger of Decline
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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
The funniest thing is, I ended up in Tribunal unarmed with a 1Phys weakling character with no weapon skills and wearing a suit. And yet I had exact same result as Egosphere who spent his entire playthrough making a master-jedi gunslinger with full armor prepared entirely for that very encounter. Kim and me also both magically survived despite facing gang of military special forces,

Yeah, that one part really shattered the promise of unprecedented freedom of choice in my eyes. What makes it worse is that despite having 2 bullets in the pepper-box, after you go down you have to pass an authority check to save Kim. Drunk Korty can shoot me from across the plaza after taking a bullet to the face, but I can't kill the merc woman standing 3 feet away from me myself?

Actually, I could've sworn that one of the variations (after successful check) has me pass my gun to Kim so he can take the shot. But I still had the one bullet after that.
 

Egosphere

Arcane
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Messages
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Hibernia
The funniest thing is, I ended up in Tribunal unarmed with a 1Phys weakling character with no weapon skills and wearing a suit. And yet I had exact same result as Egosphere who spent his entire playthrough making a master-jedi gunslinger with full armor prepared entirely for that very encounter. Kim and me also both magically survived despite facing gang of military special forces,

Yeah, that one part really shattered the promise of unprecedented freedom of choice in my eyes. What makes it worse is that despite having 2 bullets in the pepper-box, after you go down you have to pass an authority check to save Kim. Drunk Korty can shoot me from across the plaza after taking a bullet to the face, but I can't kill the merc woman standing 3 feet away from me myself?

Actually, I could've sworn that one of the variations (after successful check) has me pass my gun to Kim so he can take the shot. But I still had the one bullet after that.

I think you either pass the gun to him or scream at him to watch out, not sure. But you never take the shot yourself
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,123
Jokes aside, posting our private conversations is ungentlemanly and in poor taste. You should know better.

You should've said they're off the record.

I wasn't aware there is a record. I was under impression you came to me privately to try and bury the hatched, I agreed and we shook hands on it.

I thought you're a cool guy and we just happen to disagree on some things, turns out you're a bit of a weasel.


:hmmm:
 

Daidre

Arcane
Joined
Jan 30, 2019
Messages
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Samara
Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
Anyway, you're taking the politics much too seriously. The game is taking a piss at all ideologies and all ideologists, and at refusing to commit to any ideology. Ideology is the "what can change the nature of a man" of DE: you just gotta pick an answer and roll with it, and then in the end you go like "huh, none of it really matters in the end."

That whole Communist/Fascist/Hyperliberalist/Moralist thing in DE reminded me a classic D&D Chaotic/Evil/Lawful/Good axis. Same four mandatory answers every time when someone asks for your opinion, same levels of sheer retardedness when expressing them.

And nobody (sane) treats it seriously since it is as close to real politics as D&D alignments close to real-life morality.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Messages
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Bulgaria
Jokes aside, posting our private conversations is ungentlemanly and in poor taste. You should know better.

You should've said they're off the record.

I wasn't aware there is a record. I was under impression you came to me privately to try and bury the hatched, I agreed and we shook hands on it.

I thought you're a cool guy and we just happen to disagree on some things, turns out you're a bit of a weasel.


:hmmm:
LoL you are here from 5ish years and just now noticed that junta is cunta,buahahahahaha. I do have a bridge to sell to former owners :).
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
I am feeling very strange arguing with that avatar, with this avatar, with our respective positions. Send help.
:smug:
Anyway, you're taking the politics much too seriously.
I don't think I am, and for someone that subscribes to the ideological mantra of "everything is politics", it's odd (read: hypocritical) that you'd dismiss criticism based entirely in it. The game overtly and explicitly wants to play around with politics. As opposed to many other games, this game is both political and politicized, regardless of the observer's subjective opinions and personal politics, and thus should be taken seriously.
The game is taking a piss at all ideologies and all ideologists, and at refusing to commit to any ideology.
It's really not, though. As I've discussed previously, there are considerable differences in terms of tone and presentation. Yes, the game does take a piss at virtually all ideologies at one point or another, and at the very least the writers are clearly not afraid of joking about the perception of communism, but some are very clearly presented differently than others, and they seem to have a solid grasp on some politics, while absolutely none when it comes to others.

For example, "Communism" has vaguely positive representations when it comes to explicitly and obviously corrupt people like the explicitly not-really-communist SocDem Union Boss, who nevertheless takes care of René, and he genuinely believes he is doing things for the greater good - things like Empathy tells you as much. While Joyce is an ultraliberal, she nevertheless comes across as kind and caring, and is a well-written character.

And while there are many dialogue choices that count as "communism" that involve violence and blood-shed, they are rarely statements that bonafidé communist revolutionaries would disagree with in anything other than the degree of intensity, if even, and plenty of fairly positive-neutral ones regarding the sharing of resources and group responsibility, which in reality would be applicable to a host of possibilities all the way from socdem/libsoc to fascism. The same is true for ultraliberal, where while the writers may have a lesser understanding, the responses tend to be "bootstrap"-based naïvité often parroted by market liberals and ancaps, but nevertheless rarely or never malignant, other than at worst things like how all the commies should be hung, which is at least a directed ideological conflict.

Meanwhile, the centrist moralist choices are things like "I choose a mysterious fourth choice. I am very, very smart." The lukewarm nature of which is obviously entirely tongue-in-cheek, the point being a critique of the inability or unwillingness to act or make decisions, but nevertheless again rarely misrepresentative; if anything, this opposition to extremes at least shows an understanding and presents a choice that is likely acceptable by anyone subscribing to the ideology, especially if they are able to joke about it - which most centrists are, since most of them are centrists by default - which is in turn part of the jokes heaped by Disco Elysium.

There seems to be a "hierarchy of understanding" exhibited by the developers, expressed through the game. They clearly "understand" communism, can refer to the Disco Elysium counterpart unironically as "scientific communism", and find ways to joke about the ideology based on that understanding ("We need to kill the real estate agents", etc). This genuinely adds to the game. Similarly, their understanding of "ultraliberalism" and "moralism", whether it's come from the developers actually being communists in opposition to "ultraliberalism" and "moralism" and developing arguments based on that, or simply from interacting with proponents of such ideologies, it's there - but it's far more base than (seemingly) their understanding of communism and the potential jokes therein.

But then when it comes to Fascism, it is clear that they do not understand it at all (except potentially as defined (i.e. not at all) by communists), nor talked to anyone that does. Is it imperialism? Is it royalism? Is it nationalism? Is it conservatism? Is it racism? Is it "lol foreigners"? Is it any adherence to hierarchy or tendency towards authoritarianism? ZA/UM clearly doesn't know. Disco Elysium obviously doesn't. There's countless jokes you could've made with Fascism that wouldn't have revealed a complete ignorance regarding it. You could've made a joke about how unions should be abolished because corporates/corporations are soooooooooooooo different and better and totally not just puppets of the gubermint. You could've joked about the (historical real-world) tendency of Fascism to oppose established power-structures yet ally with conservative forces because that always works out so well. You could have joked about the supposed co-opting of "socialist" causes and names and how X is totally ackshually the proponent of the working class because of A, B, C.

Instead, the stand-ins are caricatures like Racist Lorry-Driver and Measurehead, which while funny characters are a far cry from a serious take indicating any understanding, and arguably René, who, while endearing, doesn't come across as remotely Fascist by any stretch of the imagination, and given that Fascism appears to have no in-universe relevance, not even as a movement towards the Moralintern following the failure of communism (which would've been an interesting take, imo), I find myself wondering why it even features as one of the four ideologies used as a crutch throughout the game.

It seems to me you completely missed their point. The political views, dialogues and points are all completely exaggerated, but of course fascist ones cause the most butthurt, as usual. While I don't like it that all politics are "for lulz", because I was hoping for a major political shitstorm around the game, and personally I think it's a damn shame they lacked balls to pull it off in the end, but I still find it hard not to notice what was their goal.
If you were hoping for a political shitstorm, it would've been better to hope for a human/relatable depiction of historical Fascism or third-positionism, rather than the caricature that is in the game. The issue here isn't that "political views, dialogues and points are all completely exaggerated", the issue is that in regards to this, they're not exaggerated, they're essentially either vapid strawmen or nonsensical. If I were to boil this down to a single sentence; Communism in the game is exaggerated, while Fascism is without substance.

And if you can't do it well, you shouldn't do it at all. The game is fundamentally good, but it stands because of the writing, the emotions, the pacing, the world-building, the countless individual stories that intertwine. But it is a good game in spite of its political ignorance, and it would've been better without it, whether that'd mean leaning into the politics better or simply not having it there as a sub-systemic crutch.
 
Last edited:

Shadenuat

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2011
Messages
11,955
Location
Russia
Secrets so secret, I explained them in detail in my final review, posted them in this very thread and praised everything about DE except the mechanics
Good revio btw.

I also hated goddamn orbs everywhere. The art is good enough to look at and there is zoom in and zoom out feature - art should have worked instead of orbs.
to add, I know pixel hunting is controversial, so much it is almost gone from even hardcore adventure games or is made optional,
not saying there should have been pixel hunting
don't kick me

but for a game with great art in detective genre just TABing everything and getting clues handled to you on a plate is eh. I wish I was more engaged in doing things in the world as a player and interacted more with things in it.
at least some puzzles maybe.

or are puzzles in rpgs also controversial nowadays and give you 60% steam ratings? like that bird and bone in Pathf--
ooh right they are sorry.
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
I wasn't aware there is a record.
In my experience, sadly, when dealing with Marxists, there's always a record. Every single time they've been invited in and treated as normal human beings, with expected mutual respect and understanding, whether with the intent of civilized discourse or just for the purpose of relating to each other as friends and to play a game, it's always come back to haunt me.

It is uncanny, consistent, and deeply disturbing.

I have no idea how they become this way. I'm not sure whether it's the ideology that makes them this way, or simply that they gravitate towards the ideology based on who they are, or if it's a little bit of both. I'm not sure if I've really stopped trying to be friends with them, because at the end of the day I have a tendency towards trying to be friends with almost everyone, but by every objective measurement and by all logic, I really, really should stop.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
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Messages
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Bulgaria
I think that the game is taking the piss out of each ideology,all of the choices are extreme satire of what the real ideologies are. Communism and Fascism are equally insane while the moralists represent the typical retarded fence sitter. It is written in the way that every ideology is what in reality its opposing force thing about it,and not what its followers think.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
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Messages
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Bulgaria
I have no idea how they become this way. I'm not sure whether it's the ideology that makes them this way, or simply that they gravitate towards the ideology based on who they are, or if it's a little bit of both. I'm not sure if I've really stopped trying to be friends with them, because at the end of the day I have a tendency towards trying to be friends with almost everyone, but by every objective measurement and by all logic, I really, really should stop.
Ahhh i don't have nothing against Prime Junta ,i have enough experience drinking with communist cunts ;). They are all the same person in my opinion. We do have that well spoken understanding,we are all polite and friendly in the time of liberal cucks ruling,but if one of our ideology win,the other dude will hang :). They are pretty good drinking buddies,but not a friend that you could depend on or god forbids,say your privet secrets. In the end i am pretty sure that will have great time drinking with junta,we just put some old communist and nazi music,will mock each other and drink ourself in to oblivion. It is like those two old man in the game,a bunch of sour followers of opposing dead ideologies....fuck the writing is really realistic.
 

Egosphere

Arcane
Joined
Jan 25, 2018
Messages
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Location
Hibernia
I think that the game is taking the piss out of each ideology,all of the choices are extreme satire of what the real ideologies are. Communism and Fascism are equally insane while the moralists represent the typical retarded fence sitter. It is written in the way that every ideology is what in reality its opposing force thing about it,and not what its followers think.

I got the feeling that the devs are what is termed 'liberal' in modern day america, but with a good sense of humour and none of the thin skin
 

Van-d-all

Erudite
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Jan 18, 2017
Messages
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Standin' pretty. In this dust that was a city.
If you were hoping for a political shitstorm, it would've been better to hope for a human/relatable depiction of historical Fascism or third-positionism, rather than the caricature that is in the game.
I was hoping for a game that actually has some mature stances adequate for modern world (both fascism and communism are pretty outdated) instead of typical, one sided virtue signalling, but instead they went for the total opposite by taking a major piss on all of them. I don't like it, but I understand what they've done.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
I think that the game is taking the piss out of each ideology,all of the choices are extreme satire of what the real ideologies are. Communism and Fascism are equally insane while the moralists represent the typical retarded fence sitter. It is written in the way that every ideology is what in reality its opposing force thing about it,and not what its followers think.

I got the feeling that the devs are what is termed 'liberal' in modern day america, but with a good sense of humour and none of the thin skin
Nah,the devs are a bunch of faggots! Their faggot ideology is the only one overly positively represented in the game .
 

Prime Junta

Guest
Oh you Luckmann and IHaveHugeNick , get off your high horses already. If I had a dollar for every time somebody here has used something I've said in some more or less private context against me in public, I'd ... have several dollars, enough to get that bender started with you fantadomat anyway. Hell, there's more than one example of it in this very thread.

If you come to the Codex for the lulz, knock yourself out. Just expect that sometimes the lulz are at your expense.

And never hand ammunition to someone you intend to troll later. Man was that ever a hard lesson to learn, for someone as naturally trusting as I am.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
If you were hoping for a political shitstorm, it would've been better to hope for a human/relatable depiction of historical Fascism or third-positionism, rather than the caricature that is in the game.
I was hoping for a game that actually has some mature stances adequate for modern world (both fascism and communism are pretty outdated) instead of typical, one sided virtue signalling, but instead they went for the total opposite by taking a major piss on all of them.
:I ahh no,it had just what you wanted,maybe you just can't read in between the words mate. Both of those ideologies were represented by two old dudes and the world was ruled by modern day capitalism and corruption. The game is really on point in the political shit lol.
 

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