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Incline Disco Elysium - The Final Cut - a hardboiled cop show isometric RPG

TwinkieGorilla

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Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pathfinder: Wrath
So, finally beat the game. This makes me want to commit my thoughts on it to the Codex, in a form a long-winded pseudoreview, if only to kind of settle my own mind on it. I will try to keep it spoiler-free, but one can't chop wood without sending splinters around.

DISCO!

Up until two weeks before the release, I held my cool. I kept one eye on No Parley With Partying Anthropomorphic Animals as the time went on, but only in the middle of September did I buy into the hype. It did not last long, but god, did I spend some time spamming my acquaintances about Disco Elysium. Unprecedented freedom! Play the NPCs against each other! Best emulation of tabletop RPG session ever conceived! Future of entertainment!

I started feeling silly some time at the end of day two. As mentioned previously by other, more esteemed Codexians - the game is not that long, promised open world is more like a Bloodlines/ Deus Ex hub on steroids, the skills which, when raised too high, were supposed to influence your character, at most give you a -1/-2 to a roll. Yet I kept trudging on, and I am happy I did.

Infernum

Our main hero has seen better days. We might not yet know who, when and where we are, but some things are universal. Vivid descriptions of a hangover, piss- and cum stained trousers and deadly light fill the game right after the opening. Whoever this aging sack of carbon and proteins is, he tried really hard to wipe the entire slate clean, and he did it, the absolute madman. Now, we have to deal with the fallout.

The first few hours are absolutely brilliant. As I said - I was hyped as hell, and the game opens in a really powerful way. The writing is consistently impressive - more on that later - and right until you finish your first jog around the Martinaise, you feel like this might be the best piece of software ever conceived.

Thing is, once I spent an in-game day and a half talking to everyone present, finished first few mini-quests and played with underlying mechanics a bit, I felt a bit of a letdown. It was probably the gentlest, most satisfying letdown I ever experienced after getting hyped, but still - I realized the grand, marketing promises were just that, marketing. You can't really play anybody against anybody else, no more than implying that person X cracked first, or building up masculine solidarity by ragging on women. You can not do whatever you want, arrest whoever you want, or sleep wherever you want. Technology for bringing the tabletop experience to a computer is not here yet (obviously unless you discount 'virtual tables' such as NWN). Obvious? Sure, but god, did that realization hit me the moment I tried to peek into certain somebody's bedroom.

Purgatorium

Here I am, complaining about a piece of entertainment that seems to gather almost unilateral praise across the internet. I guess I just had to get this off my chest before saying that DE was more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

Optics first: visuals are great. The painting-like backgrounds, stylish characters and feel of the entire world resonated with me greatly. It really brings in the feel of "a world not entirely unlike our own", with more than enough food for empathy, yet with enough place for the thrill of discovery. You really feel like a character from some alternate universe's Bulgakov's story. I fell in love with the torch; the way light from it follows your cursor is genius. Dispersing the darkness never felt so satisfying.

The animations are few and far between, but they were crafted with utmost care.

What did not make all that great of an impression on me (and I mention it only due to my contrariness, as this did not influence my enjoyment of the whole thing in any way), was the thought cabinet's art. I see people exalting it, but after closer examination, it turned out that it is just a tad too artsy for my tastes. It doesn't really mesh with the rest of the world, and while each icon could be given a story to correspond with a specific thought, it just does not... pop. Blame my lack of an actual art degree for that.

Soundtrack is... fitting. The music was created to specifically be background music, and it could not stand on its own in any way. I am listening to the Whirling in Rags track right now, though, so it must be doing something right. As a whole, the game's audiovisuals were a pleasure to take in.

Elysium

The writing takes the cake, though. Mechanics are the tableware, audiovisuals are the appetizers, but soup, meat, potatoes and the dessert of DE consists mostly of writing.

Do not consume too much of DE during a single sitting. The constantly poppy, in-your-face writing loses its luster when taken in too big an amount, but otherwise makes you laugh, smirk, blink, and frown. This is not the epitome of high literature, but it is one of the top three best-written games ever. I loved how the characters were, well, characterized, how your skills complain about each other and vie for your attention. The authors not only had a firm grip on wordcraft, but their DMing experience taught them how to engage their players. All these tricks and skills: for your pleasure only.

It carries the entire game on its back and makes you feel for our main hero. The "oh no" moments creep upon you, and the small triumphs do feel sweet. The authors leave a lot of guns around - all of them Chekhov's (the car, the cryptid, the curse, and more). The story is surprisingly focused, considering how different the character builds can be, and how differently the main character can be played. I did enjoy these few moments when gameplay and writing worked together - exploring dark places with a torch, or first talk with a certain, supremely obese sleazeball.

And yeah, it brought some other, less fortunate things from the tabletop. Sometimes, your DM decides that the story needs to go in a certain direction, and fudges dice rolls - I think we all know which two situations am I talking about. And, unfortunately, sometimes, at the the very end of the campaign, DM realizes that he has no actual idea on how to wrap all of this up and the group is slowly disintegrating, so he cobbles up an ending from what is lying handy, adds a small deus ex machina, undercooks the whole thing, and serves it to players.

Yeah, I am not a fan of the ending. It is functional; gives closure to our main hero and to the case, but after few marvelous dishes you'd expect the dessert to be some delicious, aged cheese or maybe a cake that amazes your palate - but what you get is a muffin from a nearby brand coffee shop. It's good, but hell, yöur güt feels strongly that with a tiny bit of something else it could have been a dinner for the ages.

I loved the photo, though.

Prosperium

The mechanics are here, and they are perfectly serviceable. I do enjoy the idea behind white checks. They heavily discourage savescumming, simply because it was usually easier and more satisfying to pump a point in a skill or take a look around for a retry than to reload. The red checks are a mixed bag - the ones important for a story tend to be satisfying no matter the outcome, but some others (such as impressing Rene, if I remember correctly) have no business being red, as they offer no fall-forward option, and do not lead anywhere. Still, the way skills were handled was a breath of fresh air. Surprisingly enough I greatly enjoyed the static checks, which were pretty hard or outright impossible to savescum (you would have to reload and bump a skill before trying the conversation - but sometimes you do not even know that a test is taking place).

I do not mind that there are fairly few occasions for combat. I ran and played combat-free sessions; after all, whether you are trying to recollect a piece of key information or hit a motherfucker with another motherfucker in-game, boils down to rolling some dice and looking at numbers. I would be happy if my high-phy cop had a few more chances to pummel someone (underground fighting ring? Someone deciding to off our hero for interfering with their plans?), but eh, I will take trying to convince myself to ask someone for a handout. Afterward, I can pretend I looted it from their body, since in some other game the same check could be contextualized as beating someon over the head with a tire iron.

The thought cabinet is a weird beast. Somehow it feels both integral to the gameplay and a bit disconnected from it. The internalized thoughts occasionally give you nifty bonuses to skills, but more often they just raise learning caps. Very few of them actually do something interesting - one thought gets you bonus XP for observing the world, another (supposedly?) gets rid of a bit of censoring as you finally stop obsessing over sexuality. The Precarious World gives you bonuses in a few tests, but that's pretty much it. I wish the thoughts were given a voice as well, to argue with and direct you just like skills did.

I played a 2/3/5/2 cop, with H/E coordination tagged. I had no problem reaching what I felt like was great majority of the game's content, although I did juggle clothes a lot. Took no drugs, was the sorriest cop that ever brought down a two-meter-tall race theoretician, and a laughable centrist to boot. I ended up with a nice sum in my pocket, huge amount of unused healing items, and no armored boots as I kind of assumed that the game discourages you from going for them. But yeah, the game is pretty easy.

For a while I considered playing through as a high INT/ high PSY druggie artsy maniac, but seeing how the skills barely ever interact with each other negatively, I think I will have a cheated 6/6/6/6 playthrough to fiddle with all the content that I missed. I will need to try and fuck up in some dialogues - for most of the game, I felt that all I had to do to reach the best solution, was exploring dialogue trees without saying stuff that's obviously stupid. I really wish the game asked you to formulate a cohesive theory a few times. What you do right now is mostly walking around the world, preparing a checklist of observations and checking them out afterward, saying what you have to say.

Disco with Furries, or How We Ran This Joke Into the Ground

And there I go, again with the negativity. I guess that with all the positive press and reception I just do not feel I need to defend it all that much. It is a great, great RPG, up there with the greats. Just like, dunno, AoD, or anything from Top 10 of Codex Best RPG list, everybody should play it at some point in their lives. It does not need to be right now, though. The game will not change your life, but it is a nice addition to it.

Just to wrap it up - technicalities. The game was bug-free for me, but not really all that stable. It crashed three times while talking with Titus (taking me to blue screen every time), a few more times in other areas, and tended to inexplicably stutter every now and then. It is perfectly playable, although you might want to save often.

One Day I Will Return to You

Disco Elysium will probably be my best-remembered game of 2019. But it has one, strong contender it will probably lose the fight for the GOTY title, and that is ATOM RPG. Funny how things work out sometimes. I do not really think DE has material for more than one alternate playthrough, so I am going to delay it for a while, until memories of the first playthrough leave my personal thought cabinet.

This will take a while, though. I am likely to remember a lot of characters and events from DE, carrying them with me for some time, talking about how much of a wonderful ride this game was.

That’s a helluva review there. Glad to see somebody who knows what they’re talking about (i.e. Another tabletopper) speaking eloquently on what, to me, is the very heart and soul of the game.
 

frajaq

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so anyone knows or have a screenshot of what you say to Kim that is super racist to him if you fail the Authority check when you're breakdancing at the Church/Nightclub
 

Bester

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Just take a minute and appreciate the fact that some no-name Estonian dude got some oligarch's ear and financing. And then made a game that the entirety of Cucklifornia wasn't able to do in 20 years.

All your false gods Sawyers, Avellones, Zietses, Fargos, all they can do is sniff Robert Kurvitz's balls and ass.

The imagery, the texts, the voice actors quality, the game design, everything is a hundred times better than your mundane fnvs and poes.

Compare this:


To this:


The first one is inane, boring music and picture, bad voice actor reading boringly into the mic. They change the voice actors so you wouldn't fall asleep. It's all meaningless and trite.

The second one grips you immediately, you wanna hear what he's got to say. Instant interest.

That's how do you it. Anyone who says FNV isn't shit is just a fortnite kid from FNV's era. Probably their first video game. Probably haven't played Fallout 1 and 2 even.
 

Prime Junta

Guest
so anyone knows or have a screenshot of what you say to Kim that is super racist to him if you fail the Authority check when you're breakdancing at the Church/Nightclub

Didn’t take a screenie. Told him to DANCE, you yellow monkey fucker. Then I talked to a goddess.
 

AwesomeButton

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Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.
 

Tigranes

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Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.

Is the conclusion that only the "why the hell not" patronage of super-rich individuals can create good video games
 

Egosphere

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Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.

How does it evolve the genre, though? It's a well written game that replaces a lot of game mechanics with (optional) text that is either fed to, or withheld from, the player based partially on the whims of a stochastic process.
 

Trashos

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Bester , you are fucking kidding me. The whole Dead Money, the vid you posted included, is an aesthetic masterpiece (with very few specific flaws, but anyway).

The music and the voice acting are great (although for some reason the music is very low in that clip). It is possible, I am assuming, that you are just not in the mood for it. Dead Money aggressively sets a very specific mood. You get to this slide *eventually*, it is a whole journey (literally and emotionally) to get there.

You need a better example for your argument.
 

aeroaeko

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Don't spoil anything for me but is it possible to miss key story details? I'm at the end of the first night and Kim is telling me that we missed some details. Does this happen no matter what??
 

Shadenuat

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You can miss case details. what qualifies for key story details is debatable. you don't miss best stuff generally.
don't forget to rest on island.
 

GloomFrost

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I ve been thin2ing that i can only give my final verdict to DE after I finish it for the second time with a different build. If i really get to see new staff, content, different quest endings, dialogues then it is still a GOTY otherwise I m going to waste my spare time on the Outer Worlds!! I mean it, dont make me do it DE!
 

Saduj

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Don't spoil anything for me but is it possible to miss key story details? I'm at the end of the first night and Kim is telling me that we missed some details. Does this happen no matter what??

I don’t know if it always happens but it happened with me too. I’m towards the end of Day 2 and I’ve discovered my biggest miss already. So I wouldn’t stress about it. In general I felt pretty lousy about Day 1 but things really started moving along on Day 2.
 

Luckmann

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it is one of the top three best-written games ever.

What are the other two? PST, I assume, and...?
Desu Sex?
Don't spoil anything for me but is it possible to miss key story details? I'm at the end of the first night and Kim is telling me that we missed some details. Does this happen no matter what??
I can't imagine that you can get all details on the first day, except perhaps concerning the corpse specifically. You can certainly miss "key" "story details", but to the best of my knowledge it is not possible to miss anything major by advancing "prematurely", so to say.
 

AwesomeButton

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Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre.

It's the original core systems and art direction. Bold setting. Not (just) the writing.
I agree, and also I don't mean to say that the writing is everything that makes it great. The graphics are also a big part of it, at least for me. But the same character system, which in itself isn't something we haven't seen before, would not have made such an impression if it weren't for the writing.

Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.

Is the conclusion that only the "why the hell not" patronage of super-rich individuals can create good video games
They are the ones who should answer that, but I think it's not really possible to end up with something innovative without undertaking a big monetary risk. Whether this innovative thing will be good, depends more on the team.
 
Last edited:

Luckmann

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Just take a minute and appreciate the fact that some no-name Estonian dude got some oligarch's ear and financing. And then made a game that the entirety of Cucklifornia wasn't able to do in 20 years.

All your false gods Sawyers, Avellones, Zietses, Fargos, all they can do is sniff Robert Kurvitz's balls and ass.

The imagery, the texts, the voice actors quality, the game design, everything is a hundred times better than your mundane fnvs and poes.

Compare this:
MEDIA=youtube]eWu-32hR4GY[/MEDIA

To this:
MEDIA=youtube]id=yAiaY1YC3F4;t=25[/MEDIA

The first one is inane, boring music and picture, bad voice actor reading boringly into the mic. They change the voice actors so you wouldn't fall asleep. It's all meaningless and trite.

The second one grips you immediately, you wanna hear what he's got to say. Instant interest.

That's how do you it. Anyone who says FNV isn't shit is just a fortnite kid from FNV's era. Probably their first video game. Probably haven't played Fallout 1 and 2 even.
I've never wanted to both brofist and retardo a post at the same time before.

You forced me to meh you. You did this.
Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre. But it takes both talent and hard work, which makes it economically unfeasible for a US team working on borrowed money.
Too bad it was the wrong genre.
:smug:
 

Tigranes

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Bester is right though. This game proves that with a huge amount of high quality writing, you can evolve the genre.

It's the original core systems and art direction. Bold setting. Not (just) the writing.
I agree, and also I don't mean to say that the writing is everything that makes it great. The graphics are also a big part of it, at least for me. But the same character system, which in itself isn't something we haven't seen before, would not have made such an impression if it weren't for the writing.

I think the whole conceit of stats talking to you & the Thought Cabinet would be a largely pointless gimmick if it weren't (1) written superbly, and (2) a large part of development resources dedicated to making sure they are fully integrated into every situation, quest, dialogue, throughout.

It's kind of like turning skill checks into the fundamental basis of every other system. The underlying idea isn't new at all, but making it the basis of everything else is fairly distinct.

I do wonder if other games would be able to follow in this regard, though. You have to build your entire game this way.
 

AwesomeButton

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What I mean is, the story feels like, pretty much as Kurvitz describes it in interviews, the genre was frozen for decades with only graphics improving while writing and systems either remained an approximation of tabletop cute in its deficiencies, or just ran more and more naked with regards to RPG mechanics.

The public and the critics were convinced that nothing better can come around in RPGs and the "Skyrim open world" succeeded by "Witcher 3 open world" is the RPG in its high form.

In the isometric world - dwarves romancing lizards and conversing with puppies is considered "as good as an RPG gets". The pinnacle of PnP-like roleplaying.

Then DE comes out and demonstrates a completely different direction for the evolution of RPGs. Who knew the sun will keep rising even if we don't give it sacrifices? Where is the pinnacle of PnP-like roleplaying now?
 

AwesomeButton

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I think the whole conceit of stats talking to you & the Thought Cabinet would be a largely pointless gimmick if it weren't (1) written superbly, and (2) a large part of development resources dedicated to making sure they are fully integrated into every situation, quest, dialogue, throughout.
We already saw that (it being a pointless gimmick) - the much touted NPC interjections and relationship system in Deadfire! And in the end, everyone was: "so what?"
 

Alpan

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Pathfinder: Wrath
In my Codex preview, I said how well this is done will determine where the game sits on the scale between 'interesting, stylish game' and 'truly revolutionary' (as ZA/UM liked to say). So far, I think I am getting what I expected to get: a game that is truly unique, and also the game that TTON should have been instead of the bloated mess that we got - but whether it 'evolves the RPG genre' is harder to say. Will other games follow in its footsteps?

The skill system is the (to humor ZA/UM) "truly revolutionary" aspect of Disco Elysium, though I regard it more evolution than revolution. This is not just in the way the skills constantly interject but also in the way the skills are very finely tailored for the character, setting, and plot. Stuff like Esprit de Corps could only exist in a cop show, and it's absolutely brilliant (it is my favorite skill) despite having nearly no effect on the game. Similarly, Shivers only really makes sense in an urban setting. Visual Calculus only because the character is a detective, Electrochemistry only because the detective is already a drunkard wreck, etc. Overall DE makes a very strong argument for other games to pay close attention to skill design. No other game has achieved such a marriage between a skill system and the game's central themes, and it is probably the single most important lesson other games could learn from it.
 

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