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Crispy™ Controversial opinions about RPGs that you know deep down are true.

Cryomancer

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3D and FPV RPGs should go to hell.
Dark Souls is a great game.

Can you explain??

About Final Fantasy being a stupid game, i strongly agree.

The main reason? The main characters

mumxnFR.jpg


And overall design

zemx36h.jpg

V1ctor, you must be one of the most retarded users in this page, I swear to god, I was happy just lurking but each time you post I feel like I'm going to have a brain aneurysm. Not only your arguments are shit most of the time, you are a disingenuous fuck.

First off, did you made those image macros yourself? That would explain why the first one is actually a lie. That character is Van, from FF XII. He fucking sucks for two reasons:

1º: He was added very late because the suits though that the japanese public wouldn't like that the actual protagonist of the game, Balthier, was too old. And it shows, as you play the game, Van has 0 involvement with the events, in contrast with Balthier.

latest

This guy is the true main character, a Sky Pirate, basically a Han Solo kind of guy.

2º: You even misrepresented the personality of that character. Van is a retard, happy go-lucky, thief that wants to be hokage, a sky pirate one day.

So you proceed to generalize and say all JRPG has the same kind of main character, despite even FF having very different MCs each game. VII has a no nonsense mercenary with mental issues, IX has a womanizer thief, X has a retard football player, IV has a Dark Knight conflicted with his actions, etc, etc. In fact, the only character that fits your idea is the main character from VIII, which is by many considered the shittiest FF, and Noctis from XV, which I don't think I need to stress how shit that game is.

Also is really nice how you seem to ignore the fact that XII takes place in an Arabic-esque world, therefore the characters wearing this kind of clothes, including Van who probably represents a very stylized arabic thief similar to Aladin.
I do not even want to defend FF or JRPGs in general, far from it, but I see you constantly making retarded arguments after retarded argument, repeating yourself again and again. You are just obnoxious.

But if I take a bigger issue, is with the second one. Amazing way to cherry pick you disingenuous fuck. I will assume you criticize the design of the right for being either; a) ridiculous, or b) too sexy.

Ok, take a gander at this:

Exhibit A
5-planescapepdjy2.jpg

upperclasstowniefemal4wjsb.jpg

Exhibit B
latest


Catiua_5734.jpg

First 2 exhibits are from Planetscape Torment. The other two are two female characters, the armored one from FF XII, the same as the guy you posted in your first picture, the second one from Tactics Ogre: Let's Us Cling Together, a TRPG. By your logic, the first two are retarded, while the other are perfectly fine. But the thing is, these four designs are great, and you cannot take them just out of the context were they appear and just claim "See? Those design suck". Of course, there are designs that are objectively bad, but I fail to see in any of your examples why they are bad, unless it is the fact that they are skimpy dressed, which is beyond retarded, specially without taking the while picture. Just stick to jacking it off to dragons if it bothers you that much.

Also, see, I can cherry pick too, in fact, I will just post a typical image macro I found out searching in google.

bis0dtqnoehz.jpg

Doesn't fucking means every CRPG or Western game have fucking ugly and shitty female characters, doesn't it?

Your arguments consist mostly of "its not like PnP, so its bad", when others point out that RTwP isn't like the PnP rules, you change and said "but old games did it, therefore is good". You repeat the same shit over and over, usually "popular" opinions in the Codex, to the point which is hard not to think that you are fishing for "brofists" like some cheap whore after its next fix. Fuck even in this same thread the "unpopular and controversial" opinions you posted are just parroting the general sentiment of codexer, including the post I'm quoting. Which also is hilarious, as the simple mention of JRPGs made you so mad, and your fixation with with the "androgynous teenagers with big swords" and hate for skimpy clothes makes it seem like you are afraid of discovering something about yourself you don't like, uh?

I probably won't even post anymore, I'm content with lurking, but sometimes you just see some retard one to many times and is hard not to say anything. Also, why do you write suspensions points after almost all your post?

LOL... I agree that Balthier should be the MC, he looks much better than Van but honestly, my point is that jRPG's often force a androgynous swordsman teenager upon you while western RPG's allow you to be anything, from a knifght charging and impaling enemies on M&B to a Lich on M&M VII~IX. But the "sexualization" on WRPG's is very different than on JRPG's. A underage green haired girl fighting SCI-FI troops wearing a miniskirt is completely different than a prostitute in a nightclub wearing the same miniskirt. As for modern AAA WRPG's, everyone agrees here agrees that they sucks. That BioWare, BUGthesda, etc are awful companies. But you can look to kickstarted WRPG's project like pathfinder kingmaker.

But prove me wrong once for all. Show me one jRPG protagonist who is :
  • Non androgynous
  • At least 25 years old
  • Fight at range, AT least use a polearm instead of a sword
The unique Final Fantasy that i liked is not a RPG, is a shooter. Dirge of Cerberus. Because Vincent was much more interesting and he have a tree barrel gun, not a impractical sized gargantuan sword.

ES! Anime Hiver!
Stay with us Forever!

I like anime, but i the mainstream anime has the same problem of "Generi-kuns" of jRPG's, non mainstream anime has interesting MC's.
 

Anonona

Learned
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Messages
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LOL... I agree that Balthier should be the MC, he looks much better than Van but honestly, my point is that jRPG's often force a androgynous swordsman teenager upon you while western RPG's allow you to be anything, from a knifght charging and impaling enemies on M&B to a Lich on M&M VII~IX. But the "sexualization" on WRPG's is very different than on JRPG's. A underage green haired girl fighting SCI-FI troops wearing a miniskirt is completely different than a prostitute in a nightclub wearing the same miniskirt. As for modern AAA WRPG's, everyone agrees here agrees that they sucks. That BioWare, BUGthesda, etc are awful companies. But you can look to kickstarted WRPG's project like pathfinder kingmaker.

But prove me wrong once for all. Show me one jRPG protagonist who is :
  • Non androgynous
  • At least 25 years old
  • Fight at range, AT least use a polearm instead of a sword
The unique Final Fantasy that i liked is not a RPG, is a shooter. Dirge of Cerberus. Because Vincent was much more interesting and he have a tree barrel gun, not a impractical sized gargantuan sword.
Ignoring the fact that many JRPGs also allow you to create your own character, which only shows your ignorance of the genre, lets give you examples, shall we?

-The whole Atelier saga, you play as young women alchemist that use magic to fight, and has as a goal in many of them to complete time based alchemy request.

-Nier Gestalt, you are a father trying to save his daughter, use a variety of weapon including swords, spears and the like.

-Nier Automata B2 and A2, android women who use a variety of weapons.

-In Octopath Traveler you can pick as your main character Cyrus, a 30 years old Scholar who uses magic to fight. Add to that that the class system allows other characters, like Olberic, a warrior, to wield others weapons beside swords, and he can use spears too in his base class.

- In Disgaea 4, you play as Valvatorez, an inmortal vampire of 2547 years, but physically he is 25 if we follow the pattern of other characters in the saga.

- Recettear you play as a young girl that takes over her fathers shop, you recruit mercenaries to go into dungeons as she does not fight directly.

- Resonance of Fate has 3 main characters, a composite cast if you will, with one of, Vashyron, being in near or in his thirties. They use guns to fight.

- Ashley Riot, from Vagrant Story, mercenary in his late 20s, can use a variety of weapons, spears and crossbows included.

-The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky Bracer Guild's Estelle Bright, a young woman who uses a quarterstaff in combat.

-Tales of Berseria, Velvet is a woman that uses a sword and a demonic arm to fight.

-Princess Crown, main character is a young princess.

-Grimgrimoire, a young girl studying magic in a magic school, is a summoner.


Want more? And that is if we follow your retarded parameters, as you seem to focus on very superficial elements when it comes to judge characters. If we ignore them suddenly you have very interesting characters with different fighting styles like Demifiend of Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, Ramza from FFT, Denam from Tactics Ogre, Deku from the World Ends with You. Of course they are men under 25 so they would be disqualified by your arbitrary parameters.

Hell, I cannot include Caim from Drakengard, the encarnation of murderhobo with an extra of psychopath, because he is 24 and uses a sword. And let me tell you, this guy is anything but generic.

A underage green haired girl fighting SCI-FI troops wearing a miniskirt is completely different than a prostitute in a nightclub wearing the same miniskirt

Ah, love that you make sure to put this in bold letters and remark that she is underage just to have the moral high ground "think of the children!". Amazing. Again, the aesthetic of the game and the character itself matter much when it comes to this. Extra point though for taking one entry of Star Ocean that was considered to be lackluster, that is not cherry picking at all. And besides, if it looks good, and fits with the aesthetics and ideas they are going for, who the fuck cares they are sexualized, they are fictional characters for fuck sake.

BUT YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT IS EVEN MORE FUNNY? THAT CHARACTER YOU POSTED IS FUCKING 25 YEARS OLD YOU MONGOLOID. THIS IS WHAT I MEAN WHEN YOU CONSTRUCT YOUR POINTS POORLY, THINK THINGS THROUGH BEFORE POSTING.
https://starocean.fandom.com/wiki/Fiore_Brunelli


As for modern AAA WRPG's, everyone agrees here agrees that they sucks. That BioWare, BUGthesda, etc are awful companies. But you can look to kickstarted WRPG's project like pathfinder kingmaker.

No comment here, my point was to show how stupid is to cherry pick generic shitty designs and say it is the standard or the best a genre have to offer. Pathfinder characters are "ok", a little boring even, but they are serviceable.

The unique Final Fantasy that i liked is not a RPG, is a shooter. Dirge of Cerberus. Because Vincent was much more interesting

Damn, now that is a controversial opinion. Also Vincent is quite edgy for what I remember, which is a bit hypocritical of you considering how you like to criticize main characters of jrpg for being "emo".

PS: Also to add, I could probably include Dragon's Dogma and Dark Souls, as well as Monster Hunter, but considering that there is much discussion as if they are wrpg or jrpg or rpg at all, I prefer not to open that can of worms.
 

Cryomancer

Arcane
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Anonona Nice points. I was wrong about jRPG's. I was no different than the guy that only knows skyrim and criticize all wRPG's because Skyrim has no consequences for anything and other problems. But you don't need to insult me. I never insulted anyone.
 

Anonona

Learned
Joined
Oct 24, 2019
Messages
528
Anonona Nice points. I was wrong about jRPG's. I was no different than the guy that only knows skyrim and criticize all wRPG's because Skyrim has no consequences for anything and other problems. But you don't need to insult me. I never insulted anyone.

Gotta say, I may have gone overboard, and for that I'll apologize. I still stand that your arguments were very retarded, but its true there is no need to insult you.
 

Cryomancer

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I was not arguing, i was just shitposting.

Anyway, since i was so wrong about jRPG's, can someone indicate a jRPG for a magefag?
 

Urthor

Prophet
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Joined
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Messages
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
-The whole Atelier saga, you play as young women alchemist that use magic to fight, and has as a goal in many of them to complete time based alchemy request.

-Nier Gestalt, you are a father trying to save his daughter, use a variety of weapon including swords, spears and the like.

-Nier Automata B2 and A2, android women who use a variety of weapons.

-In Octopath Traveler you can pick as your main character Cyrus, a 30 years old Scholar who uses magic to fight. Add to that that the class system allows other characters, like Olberic, a warrior, to wield others weapons beside swords, and he can use spears too in his base class.

- In Disgaea 4, you play as Valvatorez, an inmortal vampire of 2547 years, but physically he is 25 if we follow the pattern of other characters in the saga.

- Recettear you play as a young girl that takes over her fathers shop, you recruit mercenaries to go into dungeons as she does not fight directly.

- Resonance of Fate has 3 main characters, a composite cast if you will, with one of, Vashyron, being in near or in his thirties. They use guns to fight.

- Ashley Riot, from Vagrant Story, mercenary in his late 20s, can use a variety of weapons, spears and crossbows included.

-The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky Bracer Guild's Estelle Bright, a young woman who uses a quarterstaff in combat.

-Tales of Berseria, Velvet is a woman that uses a sword and a demonic arm to fight.

-Princess Crown, main character is a young princess.

-Grimgrimoire, a young girl studying magic in a magic school, is a summoner.

How much did you lurk the JRPG subforum holy shit
 

Anonona

Learned
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Messages
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I was not arguing, i was just shitposting.

Anyway, since i was so wrong about jRPG's, can someone indicate a jRPG for a magefag?

To be honest, I think you probably would hate most RPGs, as many of their design choices I think are pretty much contrary to your ideas of what constitutes a good RPG. Furthermore, magic is usually quite nerfed compared to classic wrpg. Usually spells like Time Stop, Wish and the like doesn't really have equivalents in most jrpgs. Furthermore, shitty jrpg usually have boring magic systems whit only the "elemental wheel" as a way to add some "deep". I'll still try to recommend games that I think are at least decent and magic is important and fun.

Now, specifically mages, it depends what you seek. I can recommend games that allow for good customization and had at least decent game play. Final Fantasy Tactics allows you to customize each unit of your army and has a decent variety of magic classes that can be combined (Summoner, Black Mage, Mathematician, etc.). Tactics Ogre is another good choice, and has a decent amount of C&C for a jrpg, which usually has none. Breath of Fire V: Dragon's Quarter is a unique sci-fi/fantasy game, with only 3 characters, one of each basic class ( a figther, a mage and a ranger/Gunslinger). Using the 3 to their upmost potential is essential to win, and the magic system is unique in how it works. Shin Megami Tensei in general are pretty good games, with Nocturne as my personal recommendation, where you can build your character to be a mage and the magic system is very important to exploit weaknesses, and debuffing, buffing and status effect are a necessity to win. The Personas games too, if you can tolerate or stand the odd setting. FF XII is interesting as it is a RTwP jrpg, with the gambit system being interesting, being able to customize your whole party, and the magic system, while not very deep, is quite important, specially for utility sake.

A note, most of those are PS2 or PS1 games, but there are many more that may be interesting in older systems. Is quite easy nowadays to just set up an emulator and play them.

How much did you lurk the JRPG subforum holy shit

Not much really, just played both CRPG and JRPG through my life, enjoy them both for different reasons, but really not that knowledgeable about them, reason I enjoy to lurk this forum.
 

Sigourn

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The truth is somewhere in between. A stereotype always holds some true to it. JRPGs have an absurd amount of male teenage protagonists who wield swords, whereas WRPGs have an absurd amount of "protagonists" who can be whatever they want to be. That doesn't mean you can't find a Vagrant Story in JRPGs or a Witcher in WRPGs.

But it's worth mentioning that sometimes JRPGs and WRPGs are wrongly attributed certain characteristics, like claiming "JRPGs are sexualized" (a broad generalization that is only true for the past decade) or "I don't want to play a military dude in WPRGs" (this one is even funnier but I've actually seen it; it's clearly an extrapolating of "western protagonists" to "western RPG protagonists" which is true for Mass Effect and not many more games).

I also dislike the idea of JRPGs being a "genre". The only difference is that Japanese developers tend to make more story heavy games, but that's it: it's a matter of production, not about their games being different. As if, say, Russia invented the Action RPG, and because that's pretty much THE type of RPGs Russia makes then everyone calls them USSRPGs.
 

Anonona

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The truth is somewhere in between. A stereotype always holds some true to it. JRPGs have an absurd amount of male teenage protagonists who wield swords, whereas WRPGs have an absurd amount of "protagonists" who can be whatever they want to be. That doesn't mean you can't find a Vagrant Story in JRPGs or a Witcher in WRPGs.

But it's worth mentioning that sometimes JRPGs and WRPGs are wrongly attributed certain characteristics, like claiming "JRPGs are sexualized" (a broad generalization that is only true for the past decade) or "I don't want to play a military dude in WPRGs" (this one is even funnier but I've actually seen it; it's clearly an extrapolating of "western protagonists" to "western RPG protagonists" which is true for Mass Effect and not many more games).

I also dislike the idea of JRPGs being a "genre". The only difference is that Japanese developers tend to make more story heavy games, but that's it: it's a matter of production, not about their games being different. As if, say, Russia invented the Action RPG, and because that's pretty much THE type of RPGs Russia makes then everyone calls them USSRPGs.

I'll say the use of crpg (or wrpg) and jrpg nowadays is used generally more to differentiate games done in a "japanese style" so to speak, and a "classical or western style". Is evident there has been a kind of divergent evolution of Rpgs, with JRPG developing its own style both in gameplay and storytelling, while CRPG had its own, usually more close to its roots and following on the steps of the classical CRPGs, mainly the IE games, as can be seen with Larian's DOS, Obsidian PoE and Owlcat's PF:KM. While we can question their utility to truly categorize and represent to what category an RPG belongs (for example, Dragon's Dogma systems is not that different at many japanese A-JRPG and even some JRPG, but the aesthetics has made that many player prefer to classify it as a "japanese WRPG", as weird as it must sound), I'll say it still holds some value, even if it is in a very broad sense. At this point though, I'll argue is more about dividing games regarding their storytelling and aesthetics than gameplay itself.

As a side note, I forgot to mention that the games I recommended have a very "japanese" aesthetic, with maybe Tactics Ogre being the most "normal". Just a warning beforehand if any find that stylistic choice garbage. If anyone is worried about the stories being childish though, I can assure that, regardless of the actual quality of the writing, the games' plot deal with more interesting and mature issues. Final Fantasy Tactics and Tactics Ogre focus on war, political intrigue and demonic beings, Shin Megami Tensei takes place after humanity is wiped out, demons kill each other, god is an asshole and the few remnants of humanity are docking it out to establish their own philosophies as the "true and only one". Breath of Fire V is a post-apocalyptic society that lives underground, and the story focus in the 3 main protagonist just trying to survive and escape to the surface (which I'll like to add, mixes incredibly well with the gameplay mechanics, giving quite a unique experience).

I must confess though, FF XII, although it has interesting ideas and setting, the development problems and shitty decision like adding young protagonist at the last moment, specifically Van and Penelo, really fucked the plot over. They are probably the a total encarnation of the worst cliches of jrpg protagonists, specially the first hours. I recommend swapping him for Balthier whenever possible. Now regarding Persona, it depends on which entry you play. 2 is agreed by many to be the more mature, featuring older protagonist and dealing with dark issues in a more serious manner. From 3 on wards the main protagonist are teenagers, and the plot becomes very "anime". I personally do not enjoy them much, but the gameplay is solid. Just cannot stand the social and narrative aspects of the game, though others love it.
 

Cryomancer

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One critique against WRPG's that i saw and agree is that the Tolkien like european medieval high fantasy is overly used on WRPG's. Sure, there are exceptions, VtMB is on modern ages, Icewind dale happens in middle of nordic barbarian tribes, Fallout is post apocalyptic, greedfall is colonial, arcanum is steampunk, JAde Empire is on ancient China, Kotor 1/2 in star wars universe, etc but they are the exceptions, not the rule.
 

Serus

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Shadowrun Returns is a bad game.
Crafting in RPGs is stupid.
People who talk about "purple prose" don't understand shit.
Age of Decadence's graphics are better than in Underrail.
Dark Souls is a great game.
BG 2 is better than BG 1.
Tyranny sucks.
3D and FPV RPGs should go to hell.
Final Fantasy is stupid.
Numenera is a good game.
Sure for aod vs underrail and bg2 vs bg1. The latter isn't even controversial on the codex.
 

DalekFlay

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I also dislike the idea of JRPGs being a "genre". The only difference is that Japanese developers tend to make more story heavy games, but that's it: it's a matter of production, not about their games being different. As if, say, Russia invented the Action RPG, and because that's pretty much THE type of RPGs Russia makes then everyone calls them USSRPGs.

First off, that's far from the only difference. Secondly, even if it were the style differences alone would likely earn them a different genre tag. Just like anime versus Disney movies and the like.
 

Mikeal

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Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
One critique against WRPG's that i saw and agree is that the Tolkien like european medieval high fantasy is overly used on WRPG's. Sure, there are exceptions, VtMB is on modern ages, Icewind dale happens in middle of nordic barbarian tribes, Fallout is post apocalyptic, greedfall is colonial, arcanum is steampunk, JAde Empire is on ancient China, Kotor 1/2 in star wars universe, etc but they are the exceptions, not the rule.

But Tolkien is Early Meddieval.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
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Messages
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First off, that's far from the only difference. Secondly, even if it were the style differences alone would likely earn them a different genre tag.
  1. What are these universal differences that warrant Japanese RPGs to belong to their own genre?
  2. And if these differences are not intrinsecally Japanese (like having an anime artstyle, which is associated to Japan), then why name them "JRPGs"?
 

the mole

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Rpgs are for nerds that suck at everything so when they can pick one thing to be good at they get excited, truly 1 percent alpha males are good at everything, if I was a character in any rpg I would have 10s in everything
 

Anonona

Learned
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Oct 24, 2019
Messages
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lets give you examples, shall we?
You must have been watching too much hentai 'cause that list is stretching it. Nier games are not jRPGs goddamnit.

Eh, can of inclined to agree, although I'll say it is relatively close to Dragon's Dogma and Dark souls as far as RPG goes, is just that Nier rpg's elements are very, very poor and badly done. Then again, many are the discussions if ARPG can be considered true RPGs, but that is a whole other issue.

If you have issues with that one, then change Nier for Valkyrie Profile, which star Valkiries as main protagonist and are actual turn based RPGs.

THAT CHARACTER YOU POSTED IS FUCKING 25 YEARS OLD YOU MONGOLOID.

Cool. Then why does she look like a deformed down syndrome 8 years old in every department except boobs?

I can tell why: because anime is retarded.

I'll say the translation to 3d hasn't done justice to the conceptual art design, plus being a very stylized character to make her "cute", which in turn have exaggerated features to ridiculous degrees. Also, I don't know what kind of 8 years old have you seen, she looks like a teenager at most. If anything the biggest issues is that she hardly looks human, and the model itself have no "life" so to speak. Cannot comment much about the design overall as I haven't played that game, but not a fan either.

Also who is talking about weeabo cartoons? Control your hate boner.
 
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