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Epic Games Store - the console war comes to PC

Drakron

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May 19, 2005
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6,326
I don't think it has to be Epic's own games that have to give that initial push to the platform like it was with uPlay and Origin, it could very well be others.

Epic doesnt have many of their own games, neither does Valve.
uPlay and Origin were basically back when everyone wanted to have their own launcher, Battle.net for example but because as publishers they kinda are relegated to their own studios releases there was no real drive for people to use then, especially considering they were released in similar state as Epic launcher and like Epic launcher have not really improved that much.

The difference been how Valve approached Steam since all those other launchers were tied to big developers that have a tendency to simply take smaller studios, if you release only on Origin you are putting your studio financial support at the hands of EA and hope they dont fuck you over just so they can acquire your studio and do what they always do, with Valve that have not happened since Valve culture is unlike the major publishers.

The issue with Epic is how they are bringing in the exclusivity cancer to PC as well what can come after, that being a return to pre-Steam with small studios being forced into deals with major publishers because of Epic "curation", this to me is really Epic end game.
 

JBro

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Dec 12, 2016
Messages
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I uninstalled Control on the Epic Client to install The Outer Worlds and now my games list looks like this...

ipqRqPE.jpg


Rebooting the client did nothing, clicking it does nothing. Fun!

Brought it on yourself. Eat shit.
 
Self-Ejected

unfairlight

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neither does Valve.
They used to. You wanted to play Counter Strike, Half Life 2, Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead (all massive games, obviously), you'd have to go on Steam. That's what gave Valve the initial push.
The issue with Epic is how they are bringing in the exclusivity cancer to PC as well what can come after, that being a return to pre-Steam with small studios being forced into deals with major publishers because of Epic "curation", this to me is really Epic end game.
Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong. Pointless to argue about something that hasn't happened and shows no signs of happening. Arguably studios could support themselves better with the 88/12 cut and it's not like crowdfunding will disappear. Epic isn't interested in being self-defeating and just setting up a clique with a few big publishers with the right to publish on their store, they know well that surprise indie hits like say Undertale can carry a digital storefront.
 

Rahdulan

Omnibus
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neither does Valve.
They used to. You wanted to play Counter Strike, Half Life 2, Team Fortress 2 or Left 4 Dead (all massive games, obviously), you'd have to go on Steam. That's what gave Valve the initial push.

To be perfectly fair that was really about jumping from CD key authentication to an actual service client that would function as a hub for said games.
 

passerby

Arcane
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Nov 16, 2016
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Baffles me they don't improve it faster, which is the point of my post.

I'm affraid that your average modern dev believes that extremely rudimentary web frontend, or phone app user interface running on some bloatware, is the epitome of the software engineering.

So I wouldn't hold my breath, they probably don't believe there is anything wrong with it in the first place.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
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Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
There's a ton of worthless shit indie games sure. And a ton of okay indie games that big fans of the genre will like but most people won't. Then there's the real classics spread around in there somewhere too. The point is, there's so much endless, endless stuff coming out that isn't "AAA," the only way to stand out is to get attention beyond the norm. I don't think being "a good game" gets you that attention on its own in any way, nor do I think being a "bad game" stops you from getting that attention. It's all about marketing, who you know, stunts and unique aspects that get eyes on your shit.

Just checking here, but are you saying that AAA games can't be crap?
 

Dexter

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Satisfactory dev says Epic is “trying to make it better” for indie studios
Most importantly I wonder why they didn't ask any of the Indies that "didn't make the cut" or wanted to be on the "Epic Store" but weren't allowed? They didn't seem to have a problem asking them when Steam was curating this way or during Greenlight. Realistically there's like 5-10 games that can "make it" onto such a Store a month at the most, while there are hundreds, if not thousands being produced. Strange that they're asking the Indie studios that got a deal and:
“I think as an indie studio it’s nice to have that security that you know that your game is going to get out there and you don’t need to worry about making certain financial deadlines”
 

fantadomat

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LoL give me a few millions for making a pixel jumping around, and i too will be praising them about how good they are for the idie devs :).
 

Drakron

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Messages
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Arguably studios could support themselves better with the 88/12 cut and it's not like crowdfunding will disappear. Epic isn't interested in being self-defeating and just setting up a clique with a few big publishers with the right to publish on their store, they know well that surprise indie hits like say Undertale can carry a digital storefront.

Two things.

The "cut" is for publishers as the money doesnt go to the studio first or publishing decisions are made by them, we seen stories over how developers are still being fucked over by publishing deals ... sure there are cases of where the developer and publisher is the same but most cases they are not, Other Worlds for example was something that Private Division (Take Two) decided on.

The second is Epic is in fact very interested on having exclusivity with AAA titles and not interested in being Indy Welfare, they are doing it from necessity for now but they always gone about curation meaning what they want is having a more selected catalog of games and that means AAA titles, this is bad for small developers because lets take Hollow Knight, its self published and yes, its kickstarter but its a project that would simply not exist pre-Steam and its not a project that would enter Epic curated Store simply because it would be seen as a niche "does not sell much" game, the problem with "surprise hits" is that for every one there are about a hundred or more failures.
 
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unfairlight

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The "cut" is for publishers as the money doesnt go to the studio first or publishing decisions are made by them, we seen stories over how developers are still being fucked over by publishing deals ... sure there are cases of where the developer and publisher is the same but most cases they are not, Other Worlds for example was something that Private Division (Take Two) decided on.
That varies from contract to contract with studio to studio. Some might have all the revenue from game sales go to the publishers and while others may have a certain cut go to the developers. In the case of the latter, more money is still going to to the developer's pockets.
The second is Epic is in fact very interested on having exclusivity with AAA titles and not interested in being Indy Welfare, they are doing it from necessity for now but they always gone about curation meaning what they want is having a more selected catalog of games and that means AAA titles
I reiterate, Epic is not interested in being self-defeating. They will open the floodgates sooner or later because they know it's preferable if everyone is buying games from their store instead of going to Steam or Itch to buy their indie games. I assume that "curation" in Epic's case will simply mean that they will try to keep out the absolute crap since Valve admitted defeat with Greenlight which was an arbitrary gutter where anyone who got a votebot would get on the store, and instead just swapped it out for a flat $100 fee so now you get stuff like this on the store. I think Epic just doesn't want to turn into something as terrible as a mobile app store.
Beyond that, it's not as if Steam, Itch, GOG or any other service will disappear if Epic grows into something serious.
this is bad for small developers because lets take Hollow Knight, its self published and yes, its kickstarter but its a project that would simply not exist pre-Steam and its not a project that would enter Epic curated Store simply because it would be seen as a niche "does not sell much" game, the problem with "surprise hits" is that for every one there are about a hundred or more failures.
Hollow Knight would've been a flash game and hobby project before Steam, digital distribution and the indie boom.
 

V_K

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Epic brings moar free games for everyone:

The Epic Games Store Has a Massive Security Flaw

William Worrall

October 25, 2019 21:48 UTC


  • The Epic Games Store is already riddled with issues, and now another bug appears to have surfaced.
  • CCN discovered a way that users can gain access to a game even if they don’t own it.
  • It might seem great for users to share the same copy of a game, but Epic Games could suffer more trouble as a result.
The Epic Games Store has suffered from several controversies recently. From losing hours of players’ Borderlands 3 saved data to Epic founder Tim Sweeney becoming notorious on Twitter for wading into debates. The Epic Games Store is not particularly popular amongst many people these days.

As if those problems weren’t enough, it seems like we may have discovered a pretty big flaw in the Epic Games Store system. If you install a game through the store by logging into someone else’s account, you can continue to play the installed game even if you log back into your own account.

Exploit Testing

While logging into my account earlier today, I discovered that a game I didn’t own but which was already installed from another Epic Games Store account was appearing in my library. Trying to boot the game resulted in it running fine, no error messages or stops at all. This was replicated on another machine and the result was always the same. As long as you had a game installed in the Epic Games directory, you could run the game even if you didn’t own it.

The exploit was consistently replicable even when creating a completely new account that doesn’t own any games. As well as making a new account we even tested the exploit on a third machine and the exploit persisted, meaning that it is almost certainly possible to do this with any account, on any machine.

DRM Problems

This exploit seems to have something to do with a lack of DRM or license-checking on the part of the store. Back when Borderlands 3 was released, gamers on Reddit and Twitter discovered that they could still play the game after refunding it by locating the executable on their PC.

As of right now, it seems possible to access pretty much every game another user might own by simply logging into their account, installing all of their games, and then logging back into your own account. While this could arguably be seen as a good thing for users of the store, for developers it might be a cause for concern. It means that multiple people can share a single copy of the game, potentially dramatically reducing sales.

Even if this exploit stops working after a few days or weeks, it is easy to get around this caveat by occasionally logging back into the account which owns the game. This exploit is a pretty big problem for the Epic Games Store, which already has a lot of criticism aimed at it for alleged spyware as well as for Epic’s predatory business practices.
 

BlackAdderBG

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While logging into my account earlier today, I discovered that a game I didn’t own but which was already installed from another Epic Games Store account was appearing in my library. Trying to boot the game resulted in it running fine, no error messages or stops at all. This was replicated on another machine and the result was always the same. As long as you had a game installed in the Epic Games directory, you could run the game even if you didn’t own it.

Finally some incline from Epic, to bad they will probably fix it.
 

Infinitron

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The "flaw" is that it's DRM-free. I wonder how GOG handles this. I guess the games might not appear in your list, but since there's no DRM you'll obviously be able to run them. Piracy within the same computer.
 
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The "flaw" is that it's DRM-free. I wonder how GOG handles this. I guess the games might not appear in your list, but since there's no DRM you'll obviously be able to run them. Piracy within the same computer.
The games show up in your list on GoG Galaxy, but it says "NOT CONNECTED" when it comes to online features like achievements and shit. The games do still run though.
 

LESS T_T

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Oct 5, 2012
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Codex 2014
Epic does what Steamdon't... by doing nothing: https://www.gamasutra.com/view/news...e_expands_ingame_payment_options_for_devs.php

Epic Games Store policy change expands in-game payment options for devs

Epic has tweaked its Epic Games Store policy to let developers and publishers choose their own purchase and payment services for in-game purchases.

Until now, it was only possible to use an Epic-provided payment service, but the company said it wanted to give developers more freedom.

"We support developers’ right to choose among the best stores, in-app payment processors, online services, and engines, and to mix and match these components as they wish," commented Epic Games co-founder and CEO, Tim Sweeney.

Epic also noted that developers who take their business elsewhere won’t have to share any revenue on those transactions, allowing them to keep more of what they earn "so they can continue to invest in making bigger, better games."

Eh, setting aside the blasphemousness of microtransactions, what's the point of using a centralized platform when customers have to use other third-party payment methods.
 

ultimanecat

Arcane
Joined
Mar 19, 2015
Messages
575
It’s not for you. The people buying games aren’t the ones Epic cares about.

EGS is a restaurant with a luxurious delivery area in the back, but serves you by throwing food at you out of a window as you walk by.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The "flaw" is that it's DRM-free. I wonder how GOG handles this. I guess the games might not appear in your list, but since there's no DRM you'll obviously be able to run them. Piracy within the same computer.

GoG handles this by their store and accounts being fucking functional and it not being super easy to log into other users' accounts unless you know the password.

This isn't an issue in functional stores.

Piracy is easy with GoG installers, yes, you can upload a GoG installer anywhere and it will run for anyone who downloads it, but I never read a single thing about a GoG user waking up and suddenly having a game in his account he never bought, or a GoG user logging into someone else's account to download all the games. This only happens with stores that have security issues - such as Epic Store, which is pretty much just a gigantic bag of issues piled together.
 

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